So if Citizens United was supposed to destroy our democracy

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BWV 1080
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So if Citizens United was supposed to destroy our democracy

Post by BWV 1080 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:35 pm

through corporate money spending unlimited amounts on campaign ads, why are Sanders and Trump doing so well?

Or perhaps we should be grateful to the Supreme Court for protecting the First Amendment against needless fear-mongering and self-interested incumbent politicians wanting to further entrench themselves in power

jbuck919
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Re: So if Citizens United was supposed to destroy our democr

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:23 pm

I was going to respond to this on Facebook and then I hit one of those damned keys that wipes everything out. Steve, how can you continue to defend Citizens United, no matter how backed up b the libertarian sources you favor? I have followed your arguments for quite a long time. In the first place, Bernie Sanders is not doing well by the criterion of fund raising. To the extent that he is succeeding at all, it is from an accumulation of small contributions which is exactly in contravention to the intent of Citizens United in being democratic rather than oligarchic. In plain English, he's just gotten lucky. In the second place, Trump has his own wealth to support him. The argument that money is free speech is so from a planet I would not want to live on that it is incomprehensible to me how a very astute person such as yourself, with whom I often agree, can even allow it into the realm of serious contemplation. Extremely wealthy people of voracious and evil intent against the interests of ordinary Americans are buying our government thanks to that decision, and as far as I am concerned, that is the end of that.

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BWV 1080
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Re: So if Citizens United was supposed to destroy our democr

Post by BWV 1080 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:07 pm

The notion that while the government cannot ban a book based on its content but can restrict the expenditure of the funds necessary to publish the book is the ridiculous and unconstitutional canard of 'money = speech' that the court wisely threw out

lennygoran
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Re: So if Citizens United was supposed to destroy our democr

Post by lennygoran » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:28 pm

BWV 1080 wrote: Or perhaps we should be grateful to the Supreme Court for protecting the First Amendment against needless fear-mongering and self-interested incumbent politicians wanting to further entrench themselves in power
Sorry you're way off the mark here-the rich with their lobbyists are calling the shots-it'll get worse unless people like you get wise. Regards, Len :(

John F
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Re: So if Citizens United was supposed to destroy our democr

Post by John F » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:00 pm

BWV 1080 wrote:through corporate money spending unlimited amounts on campaign ads, why are Sanders and Trump doing so well?
Silly question. Donald Trump's net worth is now about $4.5 billion, more than enough to finance his campaign out of his own pocket. His ego wouldn't allow him to ask others for money. As for Sanders, so far he's campaigned intensively in two low-population states and won once; it's far too early to say that he's doing well, or that he'll have enough money for the real primary challenges yet to come.
BWV 1080 wrote:Or perhaps we should be grateful to the Supreme Court for protecting the First Amendment against needless fear-mongering and self-interested incumbent politicians wanting to further entrench themselves in power
Bull.
John Francis

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