Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

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lennygoran
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Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by lennygoran » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:30 am

Watched first debate-for me Hillary clearly the winner-preparation paid off! Regards, Len :D

Politics | DEBATE BOX SCORE

SEPT. 27, 2016


The first presidential debate on Monday drew all the hype of a Super Bowl or Academy Awards ceremony — and perhaps an audience to match. It may take days or weeks to measure the impact of the first confrontation between Hillary Clinton and Donald J. Trump, but a few hard numbers already tell the story of their clash. Here is a box score:


Time speaking: 41 minutes, 21 seconds

Words spoken: 6,181

Questions asked: 17

Questions dodged: 0

Interruptions by opponent: 29

Fact-checks by moderator: 0

Assertions that opponent was untruthful: 10
Donald J. Trump

Time speaking: 44 minutes, 23 seconds

Words spoken: 7,870

Questions asked: 15

Questions dodged: 4

Interruptions by opponent: 9

Fact-checks by moderator: 5

Assertions that opponent was untruthful: 26

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/us/po ... abc-region

John F
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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by John F » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:31 am

This is just silly, and surely the Times knows that. Definitely it does not "tell the story of their clash." As for who "won" the debate, that won't emerge for some time, at least a week for the polls to register the people's "verdict," as the Times itself admits, and probably not until election day.
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lennygoran
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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by lennygoran » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:35 am

John F wrote:This is just silly, and surely the Times knows that. Definitely it does not "tell the story of their clash."
Disagree-those stats were for me quite interesting and sort of match what I thought as I was watching it unfold. Regards, Len

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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by lennygoran » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:57 am

The Washington Post weighs in and I sure agree with what they write-glad they point out all those interruptions Trump made! Regards, Len :D


What worked for Trump in the primaries failed him against Clinton

Donald Trump was trying very hard to be on his best behavior.

In the opening minutes of the first presidential debate Monday night, the Republican nominee began an answer by saying, “In all fairness to Secretary Clinton” — then turned to his opponent with exaggerated cordiality. “Yes? Is that okay? Good. I want you to be very happy. It’s very important to me.”

But even Trump’s best behavior was not quite good enough. Within minutes, he was hectoring and interrupting Clinton when she spoke, glowering, pursing his lips, shaking his head and interjecting one-word retorts.

“Wrong!” he told Clinton.

“Wrong!” he told the moderator, NBC’s Lester Holt.

Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton squared off on the debate stage for the first time at New York's Hofstra University Sept. 26, with NBC Nightly News anchor Lester Holt moderating. (The Washington Post)

“Wrong!” “Wrong!” “Wrong!” he said, over and over again.

But it was Trump who was wrong — on the facts, but also in his approach to the debate.


Trump had done well in the primary debates with his insults, interruptions and one-liners. Monday’s 90-minute, one-on-one debate, however, was a format that did not work well for him.

Clinton had crammed for the encounter, practicing heavily. Trump ostentatiously avoided preparation — playing the proverbial high school slacker drinking beer behind the bleachers while the teacher’s pet was in the library.

But Monday night was the revenge of the nerd.

Trump was louder and nastier. But Clinton was cool and measured, continuing to make her case while Trump tried to talk over her. Again and again, she put him on the defensive (“I’m extremely underleveraged,” he assured everybody), and his one-line retorts did not serve him well.

Clinton speculated that he wasn’t releasing his tax returns because he hadn’t paid income tax for several years.

“It would be squandered,” Trump said, not denying the allegation.

Clinton noted that Trump hadn’t paid federal income taxes for several years previously.

“That makes me smart,” he said.

Clinton accused Trump of rooting for the housing market to collapse in 2006.

“That’s called business,” Trump said.

At one point, Trump took a dig at Clinton because she “decided to stay home,” presumably to practice for the debate. Clinton was ready: “I think Donald just criticized me for preparing for this debate. And, yes, I did. And you know what else I prepared for? I prepared to be president.”

Trump was prepared to do what he has done for 18 months: spout falsehoods. But while that works on Twitter and at campaign rallies, it didn’t go well in the 90-minute debate. Clinton, with an occasional assist from Holt, was able to take some 100 million viewers on a tour of what she called Trump’s “own reality.”


“Donald thinks that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese,” Clinton pointed out.

“I did not!” Trump protested.

He did say so, on Nov. 6, 2012, at 2:15 p.m., on Twitter.

Clinton noted that Trump “supported the invasion of Iraq.”

“Wrong!” Trump declared.

He did, on Sept. 11, 2002, on Howard Stern’s radio show.

Holt mentioned that New York’s stop-and-frisk policy was ruled unconstitutional because it induced racial profiling.

“No, you’re wrong,” Trump told Holt.

Holt was right.

Clinton noted that murders have continued to decline in New York.

“No, you’re wrong.”

Clinton was correct.

Trump repeated the oft-debunked canard that Clinton aides were the first to question Barack Obama’s American birth in 2008. And he dismissed the widely held view among cybersecurity experts that Russia was behind the recent hack of the Democratic National Committee. “It could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds, okay?”

This was the shot at Trump that Low-Energy Jeb, Little Marco and Lyin’ Ted never had: an extended, one-on-one encounter to test the bilious billionaire. Trump’s playground taunts sounded juvenile.

He declared that Clinton “tells you how to fight ISIS on her website! I don’t think General Douglas MacArthur would like that too much.”

“Well,” Clinton replied, “at least I have a plan to fight ISIS.”

“No wonder you’ve been fighting ISIS your entire adult life,” Trump volleyed.

It was a curious allegation, given that the Islamic State, also called ISIS, is only a few years old and Clinton has been an adult for half a century.

Trump, ignoring Holt’s admonitions, kept up his interruptions: “You didn’t read it! . . . Who gave it that name? . . . Lester, how much?”

When Clinton at one point joked that “I’m going to be blamed for everything that’s ever happened,” Trump interrupted again: “Why not?”

“You know,” Clinton said, “just join the debate by saying more crazy things.”

That he did. He justified his misogynistic words about Rosie O’Donnell by saying that “nobody feels sorry for her.”

Ultimately, insults were not enough.

When Clinton said Trump’s economic plan would add $5 trillion to the debt, Trump interrupted.

“You have no plan!’

Thought-provoking opinions and commentary, in your inbox daily.

“Oh, but I do,” said Clinton, unruffled. “In fact, I have written a book about it.”

“That’s about all you’ve done,” Trump shot back.

And that was about all Trump could do.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... aw2&wpmm=1

John F
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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by John F » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:38 am

When Clinton said Trump’s economic plan would add $5 trillion to the debt, Trump interrupted.

“You have no plan!’

Thought-provoking opinions and commentary, in your inbox daily.

“Oh, but I do,” said Clinton, unruffled. “In fact, I have written a book about it.”
or:
When Clinton said Trump’s economic plan would add $5 trillion to the debt, Trump interrupted.

“You have no plan!’

“Oh, but I do,” said Clinton, unruffled. “In fact, I have written a book about it.”
Touché! I love it.
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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by Modernistfan » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:09 am

What Trump still fails to understand is that those manufacturing jobs are never coming back in their previous form. Look at the auto industry. We are still building as many cars in North American plants (and I am including Canada, whose auto workers largely belong to the UAW and are paid comparable wages to workers in the United States), but far fewer workers are required on the assembly lines. Instead of 50 guys (and, in the old days, it was almost always "guys") installing the fratzternatz and ensuring that the fratzternatz was properly aligned with the rejufferator, you now require two people with laptops running robots. Setting up trade barriers will not change this one iota; those 50 fratzternatz-installers will never come back on the line. All that setting up such trade barriers will accomplish will be to fuel inflation by increasing the price of imports and encouraging foreign countries to set up their own trade barriers to kill American exports. (You had better ask, for example, Boeing, how that will play.)

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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by John F » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:30 am

Also, though robotics has taken away many of those assembly-line jobs, the age of the robots is just beginning, and many more traditionally human jobs may give way to cheaper and (dare I say) more reliable machines. I watch NHK World's cable channel and almost every day I hear about something new in Japanese robotics for industry, health care, transportation, everything. This is a dilemma that no government of a free, capitalist country can solve; of course it's not an issue in this or any other foreseeable election; and with no answer, perhaps it's best that politicians aren't talking about it.
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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by Modernistfan » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:42 am

Agreed, although my point was that Trump was completely unrealistic. We had better be preparing our workers to design, build, and run those robots.

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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by John F » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:15 pm

And my point is that the loss of manufacturing jobs is something that, in the long run, no candidate can do much about, whether Trump, Clinton, or anybody else. So you can't really blame Trump.

Rebuilding the infrastructure will mostly have to be paid for by the government; private industry, even when dependent on that infrastructure, has not and will not get it done and foot the bill. As for building robots, the only area in which the U.S. is presently competitive is aerial drones, as far as I know. Overtaking and outdoing the Japanese seems to me doubtful, at best a very long shot. How, then, can the U.S. protect and grow its industrial base to create jobs for humans that can't be done more productively and cheaply by robots?

Protectionism is the easy answer, Trump's answer. Of course it has a bad name and a bad history, but I see that Hillary Clinton, who's fighting against most of what he's campaigning for, is not fighting him on this but has come around, at least regarding the Pacific trade agreement. It may be merely a political ploy, to be dropped as soon as she wins the election, but she may actually be a convert. After all, it's pro-business Republicans who historically have been ideologically in favor of free trade, not pro-labor Democrats.
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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by jserraglio » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:54 pm

Can we please be fair to Trump . . . ?

1, Sabotaged mic.

2. Humongous Lester Holt strike zone.

3. Bill's-bimbos card not playable.

4. Tainted bottle water.

5. Power lunch yesterday -> half-dozen Big Macs and Quarter Pounders with Cheese.

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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by John F » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:17 am

Huh?
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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by lennygoran » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:14 am

lennygoran wrote:The Washington Post weighs in and I sure agree with what they write
And today's column from Friedman isn't chopped liver either! Regards, Len :)


Trump? How Could We?
Thomas L. Friedman SEPT. 27, 2016


My reaction to the Donald Trump-Hillary Clinton debate can be summarized with one word: “How?”

How in the world do we put a man in the Oval Office who thinks NATO is a shopping mall where the tenants aren’t paying enough rent to the U.S. landlord?

NATO is not a shopping mall; it is a strategic alliance that won the Cold War, keeps Europe a stable trading partner for U.S. companies and prevents every European country — particularly Germany — from getting their own nukes to counterbalance Russia, by sheltering them all under America’s nuclear umbrella.

How do we put in the Oval Office a man who does not know enough “beef” about key policies to finish a two-minute answer on any issue without the hamburger helper of bluster, insults and repetition?

How do we put in the Oval Office a man who suggests that the recent spate of cyberattacks — which any senior U.S. intelligence official will tell you came without question from Russia — might not have come from Russia but could have been done by “somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds”?

How do we put in the Oval Office a man who boasts that he tries to pay zero federal taxes but then complains that our airports and roads are falling apart and there is not enough money for our veterans?

How do we put in the Oval Office a man who claims he was against the Iraq war, because he said he privately told that to his pal Sean Hannity of Fox News — even though he publicly supported the war when it began. Trump is so obsessed with proving his infallibility that he missed scoring an easy debate point for himself by saying, “Yes, I supported the Iraq war as a citizen, but Hillary voted for it as a senator when she had access to the intelligence and her job was to make the right judgment.”

How do we put in the Oval Office someone who says we should not have gone into Iraq, but since we did, “we should have taken the oil — ISIS would not have been able to form … because the oil was their primary source of income.”

ISIS formed before it managed to pump any oil, and it sustained itself with millions of dollars that it stole from Iraq’s central bank in Mosul. Meanwhile, Iraq has the world’s fifth-largest oil reserves — 140 billion barrels. Can you imagine how many years we’d have to stay there to pump it all and how much doing so would tarnish our moral standing around the world and energize every jihadist?
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How do we put in the Oval Office someone whose campaign manager has to go on every morning show after the debate and lie to try to make up for the nonsense her boss spouted? Kellyanne Conway told CNN on Tuesday morning that when it comes to climate change, “We don’t know what Hillary Clinton believes, because nobody ever asks her.”

Say what? As secretary of state, Clinton backed every global climate negotiation and clean energy initiative. That’s like saying no one knows Hillary’s position on women’s rights.

Conway then went on CNBC’s “Squawk Box” and argued that Clinton, who was secretary of state from 2009 to 2013, had never created a job and was partly responsible for the lack of adequate “roads and bridges” in our country. When challenged on that by MGM Resorts’s C.E.O., James Murren — who argued that his business was up, that the economy was improving and that Clinton’s job as secretary of state was to create stability — Conway responded that Clinton had nothing to do with any improvements in the economy because “she’s never been president so she’s created no financial stability.”

I see: Everything wrong is Clinton’s fault and anything good is to the president’s credit alone. Silly.

The “Squawk Box” segment was devoted to the fact that while Trump claims that he will get the economy growing, very few C.E.O.s of major U.S. companies are supporting him. Also, interesting how positively the stock market reacted to Trump’s debate defeat. Maybe because C.E.O.s and investors know that Trump and Conway are con artists and that recent statistics show income gaps are actually narrowing, wages are rising and poverty is easing.

The Trump-Conway shtick is to trash the country so they can make us great again. Fact: We have problems and not everyone is enjoying the fruits of our economy, but if you want to be an optimist about America, stand on your head — the country looks so much better from the bottom up. What you see are towns and regions not waiting for Washington, D.C., but coming together themselves to fix infrastructure, education and governance. I see it everywhere I go.

I am not enamored of Clinton’s stale, liberal, centralized view of politics, but she is sane and responsible; she’ll do her homework, can grow in the job, and might even work well with Republicans, as she did as a senator.

Trump promises change, but change that comes from someone who thinks people who pay taxes are suckers and who thinks he can show up before an audience of 100 million without preparation or real plans and talk about serious issues with no more sophistication than your crazy uncle — and expect to get away with it — is change the country can’t afford.

Electing such a man would be insanity.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/28/opini ... egion&_r=0

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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by John F » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:37 am

We do it by voting for him, and tens of millions of us will. I'm still confident that even more of us won't, and see nothing in the debate or the polls (such as they are) to make me worry that it won't happen.

Speaking of the polls, the news media have been saying recently that the margin has narrowed virtually to a tie. But in the RealClearPolitics average of national polls, seven of them have Clinton eading by as many as 7 points, one has a tie, and only the LA Times/USC Tracking poll - which has been skewed toward Trump all year - shows him in the lead. The average is a 2.9% lead for Clinton.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -5491.html

So don't believe everything you read and hear in the media, even those with an editorial liberal tilt; maybe they're just trying to hype the drama. Check the numbers yourself, if indeed you care about the daily ups and downs of the polls, which in the end signify nothing anyway.
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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by jserraglio » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:23 pm

SEPTEMBER 27, 2016
Trump Threatens to Skip Remaining Debates If Hillary Is There
BY ANDY BOROWITZ

“Every time I said something, she would say something back,” Trump said of Monday night’s face-off. “It was rigged.”

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. (The Borowitz Report)—

Plunging the future of the 2016 Presidential debates into doubt, Donald J. Trump said on Tuesday morning that he would not participate in the remaining two debates if Hillary Clinton is there.

Trump blasted the format of Monday night’s debate by claiming that the presence of Clinton was “specifically designed” to distract him from delivering his message to the American people.

“Every time I said something, she would say something back,” he said. “It was rigged.”

He also lambasted the “underhanded tactics” his opponent used during the debate. “She kept on bringing up things I said or did,” he added. “She is a very nasty person.”

Turning to CNN, Trump criticized the network’s use of a split screen showing both him and Clinton throughout the telecast. “It should have been just me,” he said. “That way people could have seen how really good my temperament is.”

The billionaire said that debate organizers had not yet responded to his ultimatum, but he warned that if he does not get assurances in writing that future debates will be “un-rigged, Hillary-wise,” he will not participate.

“I have said time and time again that I would only do these debates if I am treated fairly,” he added. “The only way I can be guaranteed of being treated fairly is if Hillary Clinton is not there.”

Read actual news about the first debate: Amy Davidson on Donald Trump as a failed bully, John Cassidy on Trump’s self-inflicted errors, and Jill Lepore on the fate of the debate.

Andy Borowitz is a New York Times best-selling author and a comedian who has written for The New Yorker since 1998. He writes the Borowitz Report for newyorker.com.

lennygoran
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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by lennygoran » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:00 pm

John F wrote: RealClearPolitics ... Check the numbers yourself, if indeed you care about the daily ups and downs of the polls, which in the end signify nothing anyway.
I've been going there and I'm not as confident as you-battleground states where he's ahead-Arizona, Colorado, North Carolina, Georgia, Iowa, Missouri, Ohio, Nevada-also too close for comfort in several other battleground states. Sure hope his debate performance makes people wake up. Regards, Len :(

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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by John F » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:43 pm

You take the polls too seriously. But since you do, even if Trump won many of those swing states, most with small populations and few electoral college votes, it still wouldn't be enough. And in several of the swing states you listed, Trump is not clearly ahead anyway - his estimated lead is very small and well within the polls' margins of error. If you're determined to worry, you can always find a reason, but really it's much too early to be counting votes that won't be cast for five weeks, with who knows what developments in between.
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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by lennygoran » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:33 pm

John F wrote:You take the polls too seriously. But since you do, even if Trump won many of those swing states, most with small populations and few electoral college votes, it still wouldn't be enough. And in several of the swing states you listed, Trump is not clearly ahead anyway - his estimated lead is very small and well within the polls' margins of error.
Yes I'm banking on all this! Regards, Len

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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by jserraglio » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:11 am

Trump on a Rubio primary debate performance: "He choked like a dog."
________________________________

New Debate Strategy for Donald Trump: Practice, Practice, Practice
By PATRICK HEALY, ASHLEY PARKER and MAGGIE HABERMAN
SEPT. 28, 2016
The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/us/po ... ebate.html

Campaign advisers to Donald J. Trump, concerned that his focus and objectives had dissolved during the first presidential debate on Monday, plan to more rigorously prepare him for his next face-off with Hillary Clinton. They intend to drill the Republican nominee on crucial answers, facts and counterattacks, and coach him on ways to whack Mrs. Clinton on issues even if he is not asked about them.

Whether he is open to practicing meticulously is a major concern, however, according to some of these advisers and others close to Mr. Trump.

While analysts from both parties and several focus groups declared Mrs. Clinton the winner of the debate, Mr. Trump tried to claim that title for himself, citing unscientific online surveys, and told his advisers that he believed he had done well in the first half-hour of the 90-minute event.

A delicate approach to the candidate is now in the works. Before his advisers can shape Mr. Trump’s performance for the next debate, on Oct. 9 in St. Louis, they need to convince him that he can do better than he did in the first one and that only a disciplined, strategic attack can damage Mrs. Clinton with voters. Advisers said that Mr. Trump had been prepped to handle Mrs. Clinton’s attacks but did not effectively execute responses to them.

Republican allies of Mr. Trump said he needed to exploit what they see as her vulnerabilities.

“People know who Hillary is — they’ve seen her and heard about her for 30 years,” said Sean Spicer, chief strategist for the Republican National Committee, who works for the Trump campaign part time. “And what needs to be done next is that he is seen as the element of change.”

At a rally on Wednesday in Council Bluffs, Iowa, Mr. Trump bragged that he had won the debate by “a landslide.” He said he did not think Mrs. Clinton “did well in the debate at all,” and noted the feedback that he received from people as he took the stage for the rally.

“I just walked in, and I saw so many great people, and they said, ‘Wow, you did so great in the debate,’” he said. “And we understand that. We understand that.”

Even as Mr. Trump’s advisers publicly backed him and praised his debate performance, they were privately awash in second-guessing about why he stopped attacking Mrs. Clinton on trade and character issues and instead grew erratic, impatient and subdued as the night went on. In interviews, seven campaign aides and advisers, most of whom sought anonymity to speak candidly, expressed frustration and discouragement over their candidate’s performance Monday night.

They blamed his overstuffed schedule, including a last-minute rally in Virginia that was added days before the debate. They blamed the large number of voluble people on his prep team, including two retired military figures with no political background. And they blamed the lack of time spent on preparing a game plan in the first place.

Mr. Trump, for his part, sought to blame everything but himself. During an appearance on Fox News on Tuesday, he charged that the moderator, Lester Holt of NBC News, had become overly aggressive with him — although he inaccurately said that Mr. Holt had questioned him over a 1973 federal discrimination lawsuit against Mr. Trump’s company. (Mrs. Clinton had raised the lawsuit question.) He also suggested that his performance was related to a faulty mike — even though he was perfectly audible during the telecast — and that he may have been the victim of sabotage.

And at a rally in Florida later that evening, he ripped Mrs. Clinton in scathing terms that he declined to use when they were face to face.

But Mr. Trump’s lack of facility as a one-on-one debater was glaring at times, such as his inability to challenge Mrs. Clinton’s judgment over the attacks on the American diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya. He protested on Fox News that he could not find a way to bring up Benghazi, saying, “Don’t forget, you are asked a question as to progress or as to something, and it’s hard to get off to Benghazi sometimes the way the questions were framed.”

Mrs. Clinton, who prepared at length for the debate, was far more deft at unnerving her opponent, finding a way during an exchange about trade to bring up a loan that Mr. Trump had received from his father. Topics during general election debates are often inserted at prime openings by the candidates themselves, rather than by the moderators, whom Mr. Trump relied on during the primary debates to set the tone.

The shape and schedule for Mr. Trump’s next round of debate preparations are still under discussion, his advisers said.

Some of the advisers want to practice getting under his skin, as Mrs. Clinton did, to gauge his response, but they offered no details about doing so. Others wanted practice sessions built around the next debate’s format, a town hall-style meeting, where Mr. Trump is likely to engage with undecided voters asking him questions and, at times, move from his chair to walk the stage. Mr. Trump has little experience with the format, which can be challenging for people who do not practice managing their body language and movements.

Several advisers also want to impress upon him the need to stick to a strategy and a plan of battle against a female candidate — the kind of opponent he has less experience facing — rather than spend time polishing a string of disparate zingers that Mrs. Clinton, a skilled debater, was able to easily parry Monday night.

Mrs. Clinton succeeded several times in baiting Mr. Trump, making him become defensive, lose his cool or dig himself into a political hole, particularly late in the debate as he struggled to defend himself against charges that he had made sexist and racist remarks. He also repeatedly interrupted or talked over Mrs. Clinton, which some female voters found alienating. Some allies of Mr. Trump say he is not preparing enough to do battle with a woman in mind; he has only one senior adviser who is a woman, his campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway.

Almost all of his advisers rejected the idea that the debate was a failure for Mr. Trump, noting that he landed some punches and insisting that Mrs. Clinton looked more polished than she was because of her opposition.

But all of them described the debate as filled with missed opportunities. And they openly expressed frustration that Mr. Trump seemed unable to stop chasing chum that Mrs. Clinton tossed at him.

Mr. Trump’s debate preparation was unconventional. Aides have introduced a lectern and encouraged him to participate in mock debates, but he has not embraced them, focusing mostly on conversations and discussions with advisers.

During the primaries, the group briefing him for debates was small and closely held. By the weekend before the debate on Monday at Hofstra University, there were nearly a dozen people preparing Mr. Trump, including the retired Army generals Michael Flynn and Keith Kellogg, neither of whom has experience in presidential debates.

There were early efforts to run a more standard form of general election debate-prep camp, led by Roger Ailes, the ousted Fox News chief, at Mr. Trump’s golf course in Bedminster, N.J. But Mr. Trump found it hard to focus during those meetings, according to multiple people briefed on the process who requested anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. That left Mr. Ailes, who at the time was deeply distracted by his removal from Fox and the news media reports surrounding it, discussing his own problems as well as recounting political war stories, according to two people present for the sessions.

Rudolph W. Giuliani, a former New York City mayor and a friend of Mr. Trump’s who has been traveling with him extensively, took over much of the preparation efforts by the end. But with Mr. Trump receiving so much conflicting advice in those sessions, he absorbed little of it.

The team had primed Mr. Trump to look for roughly a dozen key phrases and expressions Mrs. Clinton uses when she is uncertain or uncomfortable, but he did not seem to pay attention during the practice sessions, one aide said, and failed to home in on her vulnerabilities during the debate.

“It clearly looked like he ran out of gas after 30 minutes, and that came through loud and clear,” said Scott Reed, the senior political strategist for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, who has not supported Mr. Trump.

“Trump needs to show a higher level seriousness, so that he’s better positioned as an agent of change,” Mr. Reed added. “If he can accomplish that, he’ll win undecided voters and late-breaking voters who clearly don’t want to support Hillary Clinton.”

Mr. Trump’s best lines, several aides said, came when he talked about how Mrs. Clinton had been in politics for 30 years and had yet to offer any solutions, and when he parried a question from her about releasing his tax returns by saying he would release them when she released the 33,000 deleted emails from her time as secretary of state. But he quickly dropped the emails line.

The aides were particularly frustrated when Mr. Trump, unprompted, mentioned the comedian Rosie O’Donnell during an exchange about his treatment of women, saying she deserved his vitriol and criticism.

Mr. Trump’s campaign tried to soothe supporters on a conference call on Tuesday by pointing to instant polls that showed him winning the debate, even though a vast majority of surveys showed that Mrs. Clinton led. And his backers painted an optimistic picture of a campaign on course.

“I think he was extremely effective in speaking to the targeted audience of swing state voters and undecided voters,” said John Jay LaValle, the chairman of the Republican Party in Suffolk County, N.Y., and a supporter of Mr. Trump.

John F
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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by John F » Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:27 pm

You know what? For once Trump was right - there was something wrong with his microphone. It didn't affect the telecast but the sound level in the hall was low.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/01/us/po ... ebate.html
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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by LSAmadeus » Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:39 pm

Trump has to lose. No way a buffoon like him can run a hot dog stand never mind a country!
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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by karlhenning » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:09 am

Modernistfan wrote:Agreed, although my point was that Trump was completely unrealistic.
He has never been anything like realistic, even on the odd occasion when he is coherent. But the Trumpkins don't care. There are Trumpkins who, if the GOP had nominated Gaddafi, they would vote for him; and if you ask them why, they would only start listing objections to Clinton.

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Re: Hillary Wins-Debate Box Score

Post by John F » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:34 am

The Alicia Machado affair is typical Trump. It turns out that she's no bland beauty queen and several of his accusations against her have some basis in fact, but that's not the point; American women don't care about what a Miss Venezuela may have done in her home country, or about a Miss _________ (you name the beauty pageant) after she's crowned. The point was his attitude toward women in general, and Trump should have realized this - he still doesn't. He's too obtuse, or obsessed, or both to recognize a trap even after he's walked right into it.
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