Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Discuss whatever you want here ... movies, books, recipes, politics, beer, wine, TV ... everything except classical music.

Moderators: Lance, Corlyss_D

Post Reply
jserraglio
Posts: 4818
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:06 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by jserraglio » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:51 pm


lennygoran
Posts: 14119
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by lennygoran » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:01 pm

What a shame about the FBI mess up. Regards, Len :(

jserraglio
Posts: 4818
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:06 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by jserraglio » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:22 pm

lennygoran wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:01 pm
What a shame about the FBI mess up.
As I recall the FBI did interview the two Boston Marathon kids, to no apparent effect.

jserraglio
Posts: 4818
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:06 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by jserraglio » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:03 am

Reports that a national high-school walkout in protest of congressional inaction is in the works for March 14.

jserraglio
Posts: 4818
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:06 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by jserraglio » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:07 pm

THE WASHINGTON POST

THE BIG IDEA: Most stories about kids these days provide reasons to feel pessimistic about the next generation. They’re addicted to video games. They’re taking the Tide pod challenge. They don’t appreciate the importance of the First Amendment or capitalism. They’re self-centered, entitled and need constant validation.

But what’s happened since the Valentine’s Day rampage in Florida forcefully challenges this caricature. As is so often the case, the worst of humanity also brings out its best.

--“I am the future of the United States of America” is part of the creed that members of the Junior ROTC recite. More than 300,000 students across 1,700 schools participate in the national program, which is designed to prepare teenagers for military service. The chapter at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School had 275 cadets. Three were among the 17 murdered in Parkland last Wednesday.

Peter Wang, 15, was killed after holding a door open so his classmates could escape. His dream was to attend West Point, then serve in the Army. He died wearing his JROTC uniform. Now his little brothers are wondering what happened, especially 5-year-old Alex. “He keeps asking, ‘When will Peter be home?’” family friend Jesse Pan told Lori Rozsa. Members of the military community have organized online to attend his funeral later today in full regalia.

Alleged shooter Nikolas Cruz, 19, had once been a member of the same JROTC chapter. To blend in, authorities say he wore a polo shirt from the group when he arrived at his old school with an assault-style rifle in a black bag. “We all have those shirts,” said Angelyse Perez, an 18-year-old senior and a company commander. “We’re never wearing them again. We’re going to destroy them all.”

-- To a vastly greater degree than after any previous school shooting, several of the surviving students emerged over the long weekend to loudly call for stricter gun laws and decry elected officials for failing to keep them safe.They’ve flooded social media, appeared on Sunday shows and written op-eds for national newspapers. They are even organizing a gun-control march in Washington and other cities on March 24.

Emma Gonzalez, 18, delivered a fiery speech at a rally on Saturday that quickly went viral. “We are going to be the kids you read about in textbooks,” she said. “Not because we’re going to be another statistic about mass shooting in America … [but because] we are going to be the last mass shooting.”

David Hogg, 17, filmed and interviewed his classmates while they were hiding in a closet from the shooter last week. He told reporters that he decided to record their testimonies because, if he died that day, he wanted to show the world that, “Blood was being spilled on the floors of American classrooms.”

“We’ve seen a government shutdown, we’ve seen tax reform, but nothing to save our children’s lives,” Hogg said Sunday on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” “Are you kidding me? You think now is the time to focus on the past and not the future to prevent the deaths of thousands of other children? You sicken me.”

-- Consider this staggering statistic: Emma and David are among a group of more than 150,000 students across at least 170 primary or secondary schools who have experienced a shooting on their campus since the killings at Colorado’s Columbine High School in 1999 , according to a tabulation by John Woodrow Cox and Steven Rich.

-- Inspired by the outpouring in Parkland, two young women at the Potomac School in McLean, Va., created a Facebook group called Teens for Gun Reform and organized a “lie-in” at the White House yesterday. Seventeen high school students lay down for three minutes to represent the lives lost during the Valentine’s Day rampage, as several hundred protesters gathered around them. “This could be a breaking point,” organizer Whitney Bowen, 16, told Rachel Chason. “We’re still just 16, but at least we’re old enough to have our voices be heard. … We’re not 18 yet so we can’t vote, but we have an advantage living in D.C. and as teenagers with access to social media. I don’t want to be known as a member of the mass shooting generation. It’s horrible and it’s devastating and it’s not the legacy I want to leave.”

-- Regardless of how you feel about gun control, all these young people have shown themselves to be authentic, articulate and impressive while in the spotlight after such a traumatizing event. Philip Bump outlines eight reasons this cohort might be so outspoken: They are a post-Columbine generation that grew up with these mass casualty events as a sort of new normal. They are now old enough to speak out. They are at an age at which political awareness blooms. They’re not cynical yet. They live in a world in which the voice of the individual is powerful because of social media. Young people are less likely to own guns. It’s a moment when political disruption seems more possible than ever. And they have a president who they know uses Twitter and watches cable news.

-- Where the energy goes from here and whether the survivors have staying power as a political force to be reckoned with is unclear. Is this the beginning of a sea change or just the venting of intense emotion? To answer that question, you must understand that millennials are by no means a monolith.

A new Washington Post-ABC News poll, conducted after the shooting and released this morning, shows that most Americans continue to say these incidents are more reflective of problems identifying and addressing mental health issues than inadequate gun laws. A 77 percent majority says Congress is not doing enough to prevent mass shootings and 62 percent say the same of Trump. At least half feel “strongly” that Congress and the president have not taken adequate action. Interestingly, the 18-to-29-year-old respondents in the cross tabs are not meaningfully different from other age groups on this and other questions.

Overall, 77 percent of Americans said they think more effective mental health screening and treatment could have prevented the shooting – compared to 58 percent who said stricter gun laws could have prevented it. Among 18-to-29-year-olds, it was 79 percent and 60 percent.

The poll shows that there has not been a spike in support for banning assault weapons compared with two years ago, with a partisan divide that is as stark as ever. Overall, 50 percent support a nationwide ban on the sale of assault weapons. Among 18-to-29-year-olds, it’s 48 percent – which is within the margin of error.

-- To be sure, not everyone in Parkland is advocating for new gun laws either. Chicago Cubs all-star Anthony Rizzo, 28, is an alumnus of Douglas High School. His agent’s niece and the football coach his brother played under were among the dead. He flew home to speak at a candlelight vigil and returned to spring training in Arizona yesterday. “Rizzo chose his words carefully Monday, never once using the words ‘gun control’ or even ‘guns’ — except to clarify to a questioner determined to go down that road that he hadn’t spoken them at all, a clarification he made with firm conviction,” Dave Sheinin reports from the Cubs locker room in Mesa.

“To be clear, I did not say the word ‘gun’ once … Anyone out there who wrote [that] I called for gun control I think is very irresponsible,” Rizzo told reporters. “I don’t know what needs to be done. I don’t know enough about it. I know there’s a lot of shootings. I know they’re done with a specific make [of semiautomatic rifle]. But I don’t know what needs to be done. … It’s hard enough to hit a baseball. It’s [impossible] to be a baseball player and a politician at the same time.”

His sensitivity and caution offer a reminder that not all young people are on the same page. Yet they all yearn for change. And that could be a powerful force. “You just hope that somewhere up the line of command, people are thinking the same things that a lot of innocent kids are thinking: Why? Why? Why?” Rizzo said. “I think it’s great for the kids to go out and show that they have a voice. They just went through the scariest time of their life, that no one should ever have to go through. For them to be outspoken about it [shows] they’re not just going to sit back and be another statistic.”

-- Bottom line: Members of the next generation will be forced to clean up many of the messes being left by the leaders of today, and there are signs from Florida that they’ll be up to the task.

Belle
Posts: 1429
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:45 am

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by Belle » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:02 pm

I'm most dreadfully sorry to learn about yet another mass shooting by a deranged gun-toting American. We are all grim-faced in Australia when we learn about this, shaking our heads in disbelief. Two Australians have been gunned down in the USA within the last couple of years; one an athlete who was doing his morning run and another a woman who was shot by a police officer after she'd phoned to report a crime.

Whether handguns or assault rifles, as a general rule people shouldn't own and carry guns. But the culture seems so entrenched now and I don't buy the argument Ben Shapiro and others make that they must have these weapons to protect themselves from the tyranny of the state. That idea is as old as the amendment in the constitution - and largely made when guns had to be filled with powder dispensed from an animal horn, taking ages to load and lock!!

As with the civil rights marches, people power is the only thing which will stop this thing. The arrival of a few million people into the streets of Washington is as good an idea as any. Watch any politician dare to ignore that. Actually, what's stopping all of you turning out in your major capital cities? Isn't that the ultimate reason why you withdrew from Vietnam?

Belle
Posts: 1429
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:45 am

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by Belle » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:16 pm

I just found these comments below-the-line in an online journal and they're the best I've read on this topic of gun violence. The writer is English, as are his allusions, and I share his ideas with you:

Crime in modern society is explained in a variety of ways. The left sees the Florida shootings as a consequence of guns and the right sees it as the consequence of broken homes. The solution is therefore either a technical one (gun control) or a social engineering one (to try and encourage stable families)

If this had been a Muslim crime the roles would have been reversed. The right would see this purely in technical terms, with deportations and a stop on immigration as the solution whereas the left would have understood it in sociological terms such as lack of integration or Islamophobia. The solution then would be community work and anti-racist indoctrination.But what is missing from both perspectives is the actual murderer. Discussions never focus on individual human evil, it is as if the criminal bore no responsibility for the crime. All anger is directed at external factors and all discussion moves to political or sociological spheres, never to the moral one.There is some truth in the fact that guns stimulate murders and there is some truth in the fact that conditions in society are more or less favourable to peace, but ultimately it is the criminal who bears the guilt, to think otherwise is to say there is no free will and that people are mere puppets of material conditions or of structures in society. If that is the case, then no one is really guilty of anything and perhaps we should imprison rifles or social institutions but never actual people.

In the Victoria Climbie case it is supposedly due to the failure of social services, Dr Shipman to the lack of NHS controls, the Manchester attack to Islamic fundamentalism and Florida victims to guns. The actual criminal gets little or no mention. The modern world no longer sees man as free and deserving of dignity and/or punishment. It sees him as a machine that only needs the right input to work properly, it explains man intellectually, never morally and this politicises the world, the left and the right are selectively outraged depending on the crime and with this both justice and morality die.

Ricordanza
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:58 am
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by Ricordanza » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:00 am

Discussions never focus on individual human evil, it is as if the criminal bore no responsibility for the crime. All anger is directed at external factors and all discussion moves to political or sociological spheres, never to the moral one.
Sorry, I don't accept this. Advocates of gun control (like myself) are well aware of the individual human evil that is behind these mass shooting incidents. But is that going to change? Does the writer have a prescription to change the fact that, for thousands of years, there have been some individuals who have no regard for human life?

I don't pretend to have one answer. But I do know that, in times past, when such individuals were armed with a club, or a spear, or a sword, or a musket, their ability to act on their malicious impulses was limited. Today, in the USA, such individuals have ready access to weapons of war like the AR-15 and AK-47, and until that access is ended (or, more realistically, made more difficult), we will continue to see mass shootings in schools, workplaces and other public gatherings.

lennygoran
Posts: 14119
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by lennygoran » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:09 am

Nothing wrong with better background checks, more money for mental health, age limits, etc. Why do any regular citizens need weapons of war? Regards, Len

jserraglio
Posts: 4818
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:06 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by jserraglio » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:32 am

NY Times
WASHINGTON — Senator Marco Rubio and a spokeswoman for the National Rifle Association were repeatedly heckled at a nationally televised forum on Wednesday night in Florida after they refused to back new gun control measures.
The spokeswoman for the N.R.A., Dana Loesch, offering the group’s first public comments after a shooting last week at a Florida high school, strongly defended the gun advocacy group’s positions in front of students and teachers from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.
“People who are crazy should not be able to get firearms,” she said, insisting that enforcement of mental health laws, not new gun restrictions, would prevent future massacres.
Mr. Rubio, Republican of Florida, also drew the ire of the crowd for refusing to support a ban on assault weapons and for saying that he intended to continue accepting money from the N.R.A. and other groups that support his pro-gun agenda.
Ms. Loesch and Mr. Rubio appeared during the two-hour forum, broadcast on CNN from a site near Stoneman Douglas in Parkland, Fla., knowing full well that they would be assailed by the gathering of people directly affected by the mass shooting last week.
President Trump and Gov. Rick Scott of Florida, a Republican, both declined invitations to participate in the town hall-style meeting.
The father of a 14-year-old girl who was killed at Stoneman Douglas angrily lectured Mr. Rubio for his refusal to support gun control legislation.
The father, Fred Guttenberg, demanded that Mr. Rubio explain his opposition to a ban on the kind of assault weapon that the gunman at the school used to shoot his daughter, Jaime.
“My daughter, running down the hallway, was shot in the back with an assault weapon, the weapon of choice,” Mr. Guttenberg said during the forum as Mr. Rubio stood stone-faced. “It is too easy to get. It is a weapon of war. The fact that you can’t stand with everybody else in this room and say that, I’m sorry.”
The room erupted in applause for Mr. Guttenberg and repeatedly booed as Mr. Rubio sought to explain his opposition to a proposed assault weapons ban. The bill, he said, is riddled with loopholes that would make it easy for criminals to get around.
“First, you have to define what it is. It basically bans 220 specific models of gun,” Mr. Rubio said, prompting applause from the audience.
He continued, saying that the bill also allows for “2,000 other types” of guns that operate the same way but are not classified as assault weapons.
Ms. Loesch repeatedly deflected questions about restrictions on the availability of guns, insisting instead that keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill or people with criminal records would keep students safe.
“I don’t believe that this insane monster should have ever been able to obtain a firearm, ever,” Ms. Loesch told Emma González, a senior at the high school. “None of us support people who are crazy, who are a danger to themselves, who are a danger to others, getting their hands on a firearm.”
But her answers prompted angry taunts from the audience. At times, Ms. Loesch struggled to answer, but she steadfastly refused to back down on the N.R.A.’s position opposing new gun restrictions.
She said the group opposed raising the legal age for purchasing an assault weapon to 21 from 18, an idea that Mr. Trump had earlier signaled support for. Students who are old enough to serve in the military should be allowed to own firearms, she said.
Diane Wolk Rogers, a history teacher at Stoneman Douglas, confronted Ms. Loesch by asking her to defend the idea that allowing the suspect in the shooting, a 19-year-old, to own an assault rifle represents “a well-regulated militia” as is written in the Second Amendment.
Ms. Loesch said the phrase was meant to protect the rights of anyone who “could operate and service their firearm,” an answer that drew loud yelling and more boos from the audience.
Mr. Rubio, for his part, had offered opening remarks that he clearly hoped would deflect criticism during the event. He expressed grief for those who were affected by the shooting, but he said that people in the United States needed to find ways to disagree “without accusing one another of being evil people.”
But the audience, including Mr. Guttenberg, did not hold back in criticizing Mr. Rubio’s position on gun control. Mr. Guttenberg repeatedly asked whether Mr. Rubio believed that “guns were the factor in the hunting of our kids.”
The senator said he agreed, but he insisted that other types of laws would better prevent such attacks. He said that he would support a bill to increase the minimum age for the purchase of an assault weapon to 21 from 18. And he said that he backed improvements to background checks and a ban on so-called bump stocks, which can convert semiautomatic weapons to fire automatically.
Students and teachers at the forum on Wednesday also had questions for Florida’s other politicians, including two Democrats, Senator Bill Nelson and Representative Ted Deutch.
One young student talked about how her best friend was killed in front of her, and she asked Mr. Nelson about background checks, and how to improve them.
Another student, whose brother died in the shooting, bluntly said to Mr. Deutch that “my friends and I are worried that we are going to be murdered in our classrooms.” He asked what Mr. Deutch was going to do about it.
“As a starter,” the congressman said, “I’m going to introduce legislation to make sure that assault weapons are illegal in every part of this country.”
The audience burst into applause.
But Mr. Rubio, who ran for president in 2016, was repeatedly challenged on his positions on gun control and his willingness to accept donations from the N.R.A.
The issue of donations was raised by a junior at Stoneman Douglas who stood just feet from the senator and asked him whether he would renounce money from the gun advocacy group in the future. When Mr. Rubio refused, the audience booed loudly.
“People buy into my agenda, and I do support the Second Amendment,” Mr. Rubio said, repeatedly refusing to say he would stop accepting money from the group. “The influence of these groups comes not from money, the influence comes from the millions of people who support the agenda.”
Mr. Deutch at one point engaged in a brief debate with Mr. Rubio, saying that a gun allowing someone to fire off 150 rounds in six to seven minutes “should be banned.”
Later, Chris Grady, a student at the high school, thanked Mr. Rubio for appearing at the forum, unlike Mr. Trump and Mr. Scott.
“A lot more than can be said for our so-called president and governor,” Mr. Grady told Mr. Rubio. “We need you and your colleagues on both sides to come together with us and find a compromise if we are ever to solve this epidemic.”
Mr. Grady asked the senator whether he supported legislation to limit high-capacity magazines that allow weapons to fire many bullets quickly. Mr. Rubio said that he had long opposed such legislation, but was now reconsidering that position.
The senator said that there could be evidence from the Florida school shooting that suggested the gunman might have killed fewer people if he did not have high-capacity magazines.
“It wouldn’t have prevented the attack, but it would have made it less lethal,” Mr. Rubio said.

Belle
Posts: 1429
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:45 am

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by Belle » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:49 am

Ricordanza wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:00 am
Discussions never focus on individual human evil, it is as if the criminal bore no responsibility for the crime. All anger is directed at external factors and all discussion moves to political or sociological spheres, never to the moral one.
Sorry, I don't accept this. Advocates of gun control (like myself) are well aware of the individual human evil that is behind these mass shooting incidents. But is that going to change? Does the writer have a prescription to change the fact that, for thousands of years, there have been some individuals who have no regard for human life?

I don't pretend to have one answer. But I do know that, in times past, when such individuals were armed with a club, or a spear, or a sword, or a musket, their ability to act on their malicious impulses was limited. Today, in the USA, such individuals have ready access to weapons of war like the AR-15 and AK-47, and until that access is ended (or, more realistically, made more difficult), we will continue to see mass shootings in schools, workplaces and other public gatherings.
Take a look at the news items included in this thread and you'll see one paragraph which talks about the perpetrator and that is mostly a physical description anyway. Presumably he had no parents since they aren't even mentioned.

People refer to Australia's gun controls but we have plenty of hand guns here in the possession of criminals, and drive-by shootings and public executions occur reasonably regularly. But we do not have people brandishing military weapons.

Modernistfan
Posts: 1748
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:23 pm

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by Modernistfan » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:51 pm

Remember, at the time of the adoption of the Second Amendment, the standard weapon available to civilians was a muzzle-loading smoothbore musket. In order to fire such a weapon, one had to pour a charge of powder (old-time black powder, not the later-developed smokeless powder) into the muzzle from a powder horn, tamp it down with a ramrod, then put the bullet in and tamp that down (no cartridges in those days), pull back the flintlock so that it was ready to fire, aim, and fire. If you were very skilled and lucky and the gun didn't foul or jam, you might be able to get a couple of shots off per minute. The first reasonably practical multiple-shot weapon, the Colt revolver familiar from Western movies, was not developed until nearly 40 years after the adoption of the Second Amendment. The Second Amendment recites "a well-regulated militia." Well, we have such a "well-regulated militia," the National Guard. The National Guard, of course, has extremely strict regulations as to the display, storage, handling, and use of weapons. It does not support "a well-regulated militia" to have whack jobs running around with AR-15's or similar assault rifles. At a minimum, such weapons should be prohibited, period, in the hands of civilians.

lennygoran
Posts: 14119
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by lennygoran » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:33 pm

Modernistfan wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:51 pm
At a minimum, such weapons should be prohibited, period, in the hands of civilians.
You surely have that right-thanks! Regards, Len

Ricordanza
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:58 am
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by Ricordanza » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:23 am

Belle wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:49 am
People refer to Australia's gun controls but we have plenty of hand guns here in the possession of criminals, and drive-by shootings and public executions occur reasonably regularly. But we do not have people brandishing military weapons.
Exactly my point. Every society has criminals and those with murderous impulses. But when there are restrictions on the types of weaponry available, the number and scale of these incidents decreases.

Belle
Posts: 1429
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:45 am

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by Belle » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:08 pm

Ricordanza wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:23 am
Belle wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:49 am
People refer to Australia's gun controls but we have plenty of hand guns here in the possession of criminals, and drive-by shootings and public executions occur reasonably regularly. But we do not have people brandishing military weapons.
Exactly my point. Every society has criminals and those with murderous impulses. But when there are restrictions on the types of weaponry available, the number and scale of these incidents decreases.
For decades the Mafia had access to military-style weapons for their tsunami of violence and mayhem. Across a number of countries. Why is this band of terrorists never discussed any more?

lennygoran
Posts: 14119
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by lennygoran » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:48 pm

Belle wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:08 pm
Why is this band of terrorists never discussed any more?
Belle the Mafia is discussed a lot in the US even today but it's power has been reduced-thank goodness!-lots of great documentaries about them on TV. Meantime it was wonderful to watch how your Prime Minister here in the US handled the press question today on the issue of guns-otoh there was our President who was an absolute disgrace-I watched Trump's speech before CPAC earlier-one hour and 20 minutes long--what an embarrassment! Regards, Len :(

An Australian Model on Guns? Trump and Turnbull Reject Comparisons

By PETER BAKER and DAMIEN CAVE FEB. 23, 2018

WASHINGTON — One of the most powerful moments during President Trump’s meeting with survivors and relatives of the Florida school shooting this week came when a student pleaded with the president to do what Australia did after a similar tragedy.

As it happened, Mr. Trump had an opportunity on Friday to get a firsthand report on Australia’s crackdown on guns when he hosted the country’s prime minister at the White House. But both men quickly discounted any comparisons, saying their nations are too different.

“It’s a completely different context, historically, legally and so forth,” Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said when asked about his country’s example during a news conference. “We are very satisfied with our laws,” he added. “But we certainly don’t presume to provide policy or political advice on that matter here. You have an amendment to your Constitution that deals with gun ownership. You have a very, very different history.”

Standing beside him in the East Room of the White House, Mr. Trump repeated the point. “They’re very different countries with very different sets of problems,” said the president, who has embraced a couple of modest new gun restrictions since the Florida shooting, even as he promotes the idea of arming trained teachers. “But I think we’re well on the way to solving that horrible problem that happens far too often in the United States.”

Mr. Turnbull’s visit had been in the works long before the mass shooting that left 17 dead in Parkland, Fla., and was already freighted with a complicated history between the two men for other reasons. But the timing threw a spotlight on a case study that has roiled the gun control debate here in the United States.

Australia embarked on one of the world’s most expansive efforts to rid a society of gun violence after a mass shooting in the Tasmanian town of Port Arthur on April 28, 1996, left 35 dead and many other injured. At that time, it was Australia’s 13th mass shooting in less than two decades and the deadliest such incident to date in the Western world. Even in the United States since then, only two episodes have eclipsed that death toll, the massacres in an Orlando gay nightclub in 2016 and at a Las Vegas concert last year.

In response to the 1996 shooting, John Howard, then Australia’s conservative prime minister, moved quickly, introducing a federal law to officially make guns a privilege, not a right. Gun owners were forced to provide a valid reason for owning a weapon, such as farming or hunting. Licensing rules were tightened, a 28-day waiting period for gun purchases was imposed and a national gun registry was established.

“In Australia, there was a shooting at a school in 1999,” he told Mr. Trump, getting the date slightly off and mistaking the setting, which was actually a tourist site not a school. “And you know, after that, they took a lot of ideas, they put legislation together and they stopped it. Can anyone here guess how many shootings there have been in the schools since then in Australia? Zero. We need to do something.”

The National Rifle Association has long pushed back against the Australia model, citing studies that it says do not prove that the restrictions have been effective. While it is true that Australia has not seen a mass shooting comparable to Port Arthur or Parkland since 1996, the N.R.A. argues that such episodes are rare enough that it would be statistically incorrect for gun control supporters to draw a cause-and-effect conclusion.

“With such little evidence supporting their doctrines, these fanatics should spare Americans the proselytizing,” Chris W. Cox, a top N.R.A. lobbyist, wrote in November. “Even more to the point, the ongoing destruction of personal freedom in Australia stands as a stark and constant reminder of just how far gun control extremists are willing to go in their quest to disarm law-abiding citizens.”

Polls show more than 90 percent support in Australia for the two-decades-old gun regime, but it has also been gradually loosening its laws in recent years and gun sales are increasing. Those who own guns own more guns — in some cases, 100 or more. Semiautomatic handgun sales, which are not as regulated as rifles, have skyrocketed.


Experts have debated the impact of Australia’s program for years. Studies have showed that the combined policies enacted after the 1996 tragedy reduced mass shootings and suicides, with the largest declines in states that turned over the most weapons. There has been only one case of at least four people shot to death in Australia since 1996, a father who killed his wife and three children before killing himself in 2014.

What the United States can learn from Australia, some experts said, is that guns should be viewed not just as the cause of mass killings, but also as a public health issue that leads to death in other ways.

“The gun is to gun violence as the mosquito is to malaria,” said Philip Alpers, a University of Sydney professor and founding director of GunPolicy.org. “It’s the agent of harm and it needs to be treated in the same way it would be treat in any other public health campaign.”

Belle
Posts: 1429
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:45 am

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by Belle » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:49 am

It does seem to be an intractable problem in your country. Our gun amnesty worked quite well, as the article suggests, and my husband had to hand over his rifle which he used on the farm to kill foxes, rats and deadly brown snakes. I hated being near the thing, to tell truth, and shivers went down my spine whenever he got it out. A friend used to come over with his rifle and help kill vermin and you could tell that he really enjoyed doing this!!

jserraglio
Posts: 4818
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:06 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by jserraglio » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:31 am

TeenVogue
Students from Ohio Are Planning Marches in Solidarity with Parkland Teens
by Kanyinsola Oye and Julia Allwein


In this op-ed, high school seniors Kanyinsola Oye and Julia Allwein, who live in Columbus, Ohio, explain the inspiration behind their community protest and ongoing advocacy for gun safety.

After hearing the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School teens heartfelt pleas for change following a devastating school shooting in Parkland, Florida, emotions rolled through us: anger, shock, fear, but most disturbing of all, a sense of familiarity and realization that this was becoming normalized. The Florida teens call for action arising from their tragedy on February 14 inspired us to rally in solidarity through our Amnesty International Columbus Alternative High School chapter. We stand with these teens even from across the country, because this problem — gun violence — is not confined to one school, student, or state, it threatens every young person living in America.

Image

Schools are no longer a place of learning when they’ve become synonymous with danger. According to the Washington Post more than 150,000 students attending at least 170 schools have experienced a shooting on campus since the Columbine massacre in 1999. This number is only the beginning of the problem: students across the country battle fear every day when boarding the bus in case we are the next victims in America’s ongoing epidemic of school massacres. The questions and fears invade every corner of our mind.

What's the quickest route if the shooter came in during English class?

Could I jump out the first floor window and seek refuge in the surrounding neighborhood?

If I was roaming the halls when the shooter invaded would I attempt to fight the terror?

Would I have the strength to say my last goodbyes?

Or would I be stuck in my high school bathroom, listening to whimpers and screams from my classmates?

Though the sounds of gunshots have yet to ring through the halls of our high school in Columbus, Ohio, we fear it is only a matter of time. Our march, Protest Against Gun Violence was inspired by the depth of tragedy in Marjory Stoneman Douglas and the countless other shootings, but also the looming fear that the next shooting is inevitable, whether at our school, or any other across the country.

What is most striking about gun violence is how preventable it is. Yet there’s a lack of action in the government, from the federal level all the way down to local representatives. As we watch the videos of families crying in Florida we cannot comprehend how those voted into power — who hold positions where they are able to create change — continually choose unrestricted gun rights over children's lives. One can take a look at the National Rifle Association’s support for these same candidates and suddenly the source of their inhumanity is clear.

It is left up to children everywhere to demand the rights the government allegedly guarantees, but instead stifles, choosing to ignore the outcries and devastation of the very people they claim to serve. Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School students, like so many before them, found themselves in the parking lot of their bloodied school, frantically contacting their loved ones and searching for the faces of friends and teachers that they may never see again. Students not only suffer through these shootings, but inaction from lawmakers that follows. They have joined leagues of other young people fighting for what seems like common sense: safety in schools.

We stand with the victims in Florida and young people everywhere, at risk for gun violence. We understand, as students, the frustration and terror those at Douglas must feel during this week. It is hard to watch the people in power offer empty condolences instead of legislation that will have tangible effects in addressing this pressing issue. But we will continue to fight and advocate for change in solidarity with them, in our own community. We are the voice of a generation that refuses to accept rampant gun violence as a status quo.

We don't want thoughts and prayers; we want action, policy, and basic human rights, allowing us our safety. Why is that too much to ask?

At this point, the blame no longer rests only with the shooter, but also with those who are complicit in enabling them the tools that cause unmeasurable anguish and trauma. Every person who insists on unrestricted gun ownership instead of school safety and neglects to recognize the pain of the victims, deserves some of the condemnation for these shootings. We are not only doing this for the 17 students and faculty murdered but also for the youth whose innocence has yet to be shattered by the pervasive terror of gun violence. This is why we rally on February 22 in Columbus, why we will march out on March 14 and April 20, and why we will not stop till our voices shake the foundations of Capitol Hill.

lennygoran
Posts: 14119
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by lennygoran » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:53 am

Belle wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:49 am
It does seem to be an intractable problem in your country.
Belle unfortunately that does seem to be the case. Trump's speech yesterday appealing to his base sure didn't help-it's a sad state of affairs-even if the Dems can take back Congress--a big if--Trump will still be around to veto things--if only he could be impeached--his lying demogogic brutal behavior is absolutely disgusting. Regards, Len :(

jserraglio
Posts: 4818
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:06 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Florida kids protest adult inaction on gun control

Post by jserraglio » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:15 am

Dozens of companies are cutting ties with the NRA after it attacked Parkland kids in a PR fiasco. Here's the story of one such company.

New York Times
2/22/2018

After a barrage of customer complaints this week, the First National Bank of Omaha said on Thursday that it would withdraw its National Rifle Association-branded Visa credit card.
“Customer feedback has caused us to review our relationship with the N.R.A.,” Kevin C. Langin, a bank spokesman, said in a statement. “As a result, First National Bank of Omaha will not renew its contract with the National Rifle Association to issue the N.R.A. Visa Card.”
Mr. Langin declined to say when the contract expires, whether the card was already inactive or what would happen to cardholders.
A request for comment from the N.R.A. was not immediately returned.
Many of the bank’s customers took to social media in recent days threatening to cut ties with the company if it continued its ties to the firearms trade group.
On Wednesday, a web page describing the card was taken down. A cached version of the website refers to the card as “the official credit card of the N.R.A.” and offers a $40 credit with the first purchase made on the card.
“That’s enough to reimburse your one-year N.R.A. membership!” the page said.
Visa, in a statement, said that it had no contractual or financial relationship with the N.R.A.
“Visa co-branded cards do not represent an endorsement by Visa of that cause or organization,” the company said. “We strive to make our payment services available to all people in all places, for uses consistent with local, national, and international laws.”
.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests