Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jbuck919 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:55 pm

Yes, but he was given a deal at least partly to get it over with before the November elections. I can't speak for other countries, but Americans have short memories, unless it's the phony situation with Hillary Clinton, Benghazi, and e-mails.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:17 pm

Manafort flipped despite Trump's public efforts to tamper with his testimony, all but offering Manafort a pardon in payment for his loyalty.

I'd be surprised if from Mueller's standpoint the 2018 midterms are seen as anything more than a floating fart; Mueller wants from Manafort what, if any, illegal shenanigans the Trump Train was hatching with a foreign gov't to undermine the 2016 Presidential election. And he probably already knows a lot of what Manafort is proffering (think Roger Stone); otherwise Manafort wouldn't have got the deal he did today.

An unsmiling Bob Mueller now has a dagger aimed directly at the palpitating heart of Team Trump, and maybe even the Donald himself, as the analysis below makes clear:

_______________________________________

CNN
ANALYSIS

Paul Manafort's cooperation deal tightens the vise on Trumpworld
Chris Cillizza
Analysis by Chris Cillizza, CNN Editor-at-large


On Friday morning, former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort agreed to cooperate with special counsel Robert Mueller's probe into Russian influence and interference by the Russian government in the 2016 presidential election.

And boom goes the dynamite.

That plea deal, which comes on the heels of Manafort's conviction on eight felony counts of financial wrongdoing during a Virginia trial and on the verge of a second trial in Washington on similar charges, is a massive development -- and one that brings Mueller ever closer to President Donald Trump and his innermost circle.

Despite Trump's repeated assertions that Manafort was with his campaign for a very short time, the facts are these: Manafort ran the Trump campaign for an extremely critical period of time -- from April 2016, when he was brought in to fend off a possible delegate fight being launched by Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, until after the party's national convention in which Trump was formally nominated as the Republican presidential nominee.

During that period, Manafort was one of three senior Trump officials to participate in a June 2016 meeting with a handful of Russian officials -- a meeting that was premised on the promise of dirt on Hillary Clinton being provided by the Russians to the Trump campaign. According to Donald Trump Jr., the President's eldest son who helped organize the meeting and who was in attendance, there was no actual information on Clinton provided to him, Manafort and Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner. It was merely a cover to get the Trump campaign brass in a room and lobby them about the Magnitsky Act.

And now Manafort is cooperating with the Mueller probe. He joined his deputy on the campaign -- Rick Gates -- in doing so. (Gates pleaded guilty to conspiracy against the United States and conspiracy to obstruct justice, and was the key prosecution witness in Manafort's Virginia trial.) Former Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn, who was fired by the President after lying to Vice President Mike Pence about the depth and breadth of his conversations with Russian officials during the campaign, has also pleaded guilty and is cooperating with Mueller. Longtime Trump lawyer Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to eight felony counts last month in the Southern District of New York and has signaled willingness to cooperate with the Mueller investigation. And then of course there was George Papadopoulos, a former foreign policy adviser to Trump's campaign, who was the first person to plead guilty and cooperate with Mueller.

Manafort may well be the biggest of those dominoes to fall, due to the centrality of his role in the Trump campaign during a time in which we know the efforts by the Russians to influence the election were hot and heavy.

The White House's attempt to downplay the importance of the Manafort cooperation deal purposely misses that point.

"This had absolutely nothing to do with the President or his victorious 2016 presidential campaign," said White House press secretary Sarah Sanders in the wake of the Manafort deal. "It is totally unrelated."
She's right that what Manafort pleaded guilty to on Friday -- one count of conspiracy against the US and one count of conspiracy to obstruct justice due to attempts to tamper with witnesses -- and what he was convicted of in Virginia last month have zero to do with the Trump campaign. All of the crimes Manafort has now copped to are related to work he did on behalf of the Ukrainian government long before he was named campaign chairman of the Trump bid -- and his admitted efforts to obstruct justice during his trial on those charges.

Manafort's attorney, Kevin Downing, said in a statement that his client has accepted responsibility and that he "wanted to make sure that his family was able to remain safe and live a good life."

But what Sanders' spin intentionally overlooks is the fact that what Manafort is pleading guilty to is of less importance than the fact that he is cooperating with Mueller. The financial crimes committed by Manafort in his dealings with the Ukrainian government are merely the lever by which Mueller and his special counsel team were able to exert pressure on Manafort to flip. Now that he has flipped, anything and everything is fair game. What Manafort knows about the Trump campaign, the Russia meeting at Trump Tower being only one piece of that, Mueller now knows. Or will know soon.

Even that prospect doesn't concern Trump and his legal team, according to lead lawyer Rudy Giuliani. "Once again an investigation has concluded with a plea having nothing to do with President Trump or the Trump campaign," Giuliani said in a statement. The reason: "the President did nothing." (Worth noting: That was the second version of the statement. The first also included a line insisting that "Paul Manafort will tell the truth." It was removed from the second statement.)

That confidence seems to crash directly into what appeared to be a public campaign led by Trump to keep Manafort from cutting a deal with Mueller. In late August, following Manafort's conviction in the Virginia trial, Trump tweeted these words of encouragement:

"I feel very badly for Paul Manafort and his wonderful family. 'Justice' took a 12 year old tax case, among other things, applied tremendous pressure on him and, unlike Michael Cohen, he refused to 'break' - make up stories in order to get a "deal." Such respect for a brave man!"

Asked directly in a Fox News Channel interview whether he would consider a presidential pardon for Manafort, Trump refused to rule out the possibility -- saying he had "great respect" for his former campaign chairman. "One of the reasons I respect Paul Manafort so much is he went through that trial," Trump said. "You know, they make up stories. People make up stories."

To be clear: Solely because Manafort has agreed to become a cooperating witness doesn't mean that Trump -- or even Trump Jr. or Kushner -- is guilty of anything. It's possible that Manafort will simply corroborate the details that others within the Trump inner circle have already offered up about who knew what and when about Russia's efforts to elect the billionaire businessman.

That said, it's hard to imagine that Mueller would agree to a plea deal with Manafort -- thereby lessening his charges from what could have been eight decades down to just 10 years maximum -- if he didn't think the former campaign chairman had worthwhile information. Manafort had already been convicted in Virginia and, by all accounts, the case against him in DC was even stronger. So why cut a deal with a guy who a) has already been convicted and b) could face even more jail time with a subsequent conviction?

I'm no lawyer -- sorry Mom! -- but common sense dictates that Mueller would only proffer such a deal if he knew that Manafort could help him shed light on events involving people higher up the food chain. And given that Manafort was the campaign manager for Trump, there just aren't a lot of people above him. And those who are either related to the President of the United States or are the President of the United States.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by lennygoran » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:36 pm

Joe this reminds of when we were on a 4 week trip to south america in 1974-I had grabbed an international herald tribune just before boarding a plane-after sitting down and opening to the headlines it said-smoking gun tape discovered-it was the final blow for nixon. Now here we are in lisbon and I take a look at the NYTimes about this while coming back from a Portugal beach resort and read about manafort's pleading guilty-may it bear the proper fruit! Regards, Len :D

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jbuck919 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:09 pm

I am not optimistic. 2018 is not 1974. Most Republicans would die before they would give up Trump, if only because they are married to the party rather than the country.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:35 pm

Die rather than give up Trump? Does that apply to Paul Manafort? Michael Cohen?

Assuming he has dope on Donald (a safe bet), GOP Manafort will surely give Trump up to save his own hide and keep his family safe from potential harm at the hands of the Russians he conspired with. He has no other choice at this point but to trust Mueller to protect him and his, as was indicated today by the extraordinary fact that Manafort pled guilty to the 10 Virginia charges the jury hung on! How's that for a witchhunt, Herr President?

Suppose Trump now counterattacks with a Manafort pardon. Then Mueller simply places Manafort before a Grand Jury and compels his testimony -- no pleading the 5th after one accepts a pardon.

Last time I checked, Michael Cohen was a Republican, no? Then pray tell why Cohen is suddenly talking to the Mueller prosecutorial team as well as the one in the Southern District of NY? Is he telling the prosecutors he's going to take another bullet for Trump?

No, the storm surge is at hand, and not just in the Carolinas.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jbuck919 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:29 pm

There aren't enough trying to save their own hide to compensate for those who think their fate is tied with Trump and the Republican Right. Statistics, j. One swallow does not make a summer, or, as my mother used to say, if a sewing machine is broken, wishing will make it sew.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:38 pm

jbuck919 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:29 pm
as my mother used to say, if a sewing machine is broken, wishing will make it sew.
It's comforting to be told that wishing something is so will make it sew.

Lies, damn lies and statistics, j.

Meantime, while the flocks of summer swallows twitter mindlessly, Michael Cohen names the President in open court as a felonious co-conspirator; and Paul Manafort waives his right to have his lawyers present whenever Mueller's team interviews him.

And now the Donald has a new neighbor in Trump Tower. This morning — today being prologue to tomorrow — Paul Manafort forfeited his TT apartment.

The Feds now own that piece of Manafort's real estate, about $20 million more of his assets, plus his ass.

Stay tuned.
Last edited by jserraglio on Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by lennygoran » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:32 am

Joe I'm sure staying tuned-as we travel around lisbon I'm checking in with the smart phone to the NYTimes several times a day! Len

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:23 am

lennygoran wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:32 am
Joe I'm sure staying tuned-as we travel around lisbon I'm checking in with the smart phone to the NYTimes several times a day! Len
Enjoy Lisbon, Lenny.

WHIMSICAL NEWS UPDATES:

Trump is busy this weekend boning up on the Salem witch hunts of 1692-93. First book learning this poster boy for ADHD's done in years.

Giuliani is busy drafting blanket pardons for any and all ham sandwiches that Mueller cares to indict.

On a serious note, Brett Kavanaugh has been accused this week of what amounts to attempted rape: https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... n-congress

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:24 am

Barring Kavanaugh's accuser (California professor Christine Blasey Ford has now come forward) being discredited or Kavanaugh being fully exonerated by the FBI, if the GOP rams Kavanaugh thru next week without further investigation, it might become a wedge issue in the midterms or even in 2020.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by lennygoran » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:09 pm

LOCK HIM UP!

Len from Lisborn

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:40 pm

lennygoran wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:09 pm
LOCK HIM UP!

Len from Lisborn
Once the Feds confiscate the ill-gotten Trump Tower, they could convert it into a minimum security federal prison — THE DONALD.

Sounds like a plan?

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by lennygoran » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:48 pm

Sorry that's too good for the likes of them! Len

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:52 pm

You got a point there. I think the DC revolving door is gonna work in unforeseen ways for a bunch of Trumpistas once they leave the admin.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by living_stradivarius » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:05 am

jbuck919 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:09 pm
I am not optimistic. 2018 is not 1974. Most Republicans would die before they would give up Trump, if only because they are married to the party rather than the country.
Not unlike people who can't get over differences of opinion over policy issues. If someone can't get over the fact that a person who disagrees with Social Security can support public libraries, then there sure isn't a reason to expect others to get over Trump either. Different parties, same petty attachments and ego.
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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by lennygoran » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:30 pm

Debates on social security are one thing-what trump has done is a completely different issue-collusion, cooperation, lying, corruption,sexual harrassment and maybe even rape-you get the idea. Len Think Joseph Mccarthy, mussolini, the mob, etc-his cooperation got him elected-Russia if you have those emails release them now.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by living_stradivarius » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:20 pm

lennygoran wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:30 pm
-collusion, cooperation, lying, corruption,sexual harrassment and maybe even rape-
Hillary is no different in this respect.

Sabotaging the Sanders campaign with the DNC through collusion, corruption, and lying. Talking through both sides of her mouth when we all know she's a pet of Goldman Sachs.
Yes, even sexual harassment and rape of underage girls in her complicity with her husband's behavior (http://gawker.com/flight-logs-put-clint ... 1681039971). Dems were oh so willing to let her into the White House and yet Trump is the problem?

The outcome of the next Presidential election is going to just confirm how far out of touch MSM is with the majority of the voting public. 24/7 CNN news headlines are endless attempts to spin the situation like the walls are caving in on Trump when the reality is far from such a scenario.
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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:01 pm

living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:20 pm
Hillary is no different in this respect.
Smells like a load of crap. Come to think of it, it is a load of crap.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by living_stradivarius » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:08 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:01 pm
living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:20 pm
Hillary is no different in this respect.
Smells like a load of crap. Come to think of it, it is a load of crap.
Good luck convincing more than half of all Americans of that with your CNN sky is falling headlines. The election will tell all.
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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:15 pm

living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:08 pm
jserraglio wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:01 pm
living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:20 pm
Hillary is no different in this respect.
Smells like a load of crap. Come to think of it, it is a load of crap.
Good luck convincing more than half of Americans of that with your CNN sky is falling headlines.
Eat your heart out!

I do tune into CNN whenever there is a big disaster. And even then inside the USA at least, FOX often has better on-site coverage so I watch them. I grew up without TV, so never watched it much. OOps I do watch important things like Browns, Indians and Cavs games. I do tune into FOX sometimes for a comedy fix (The Five, Tucker and Hannity are my faves). Mostly, i prefer newspapers, like the NYT the WAPO and the WSJ and the ineffable New Yorker.
Last edited by jserraglio on Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by living_stradivarius » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:19 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:01 pm
living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:20 pm
Hillary is no different in this respect.
Smells like a load of crap. Come to think of it, it is a load of crap.
You know what, you're right. She's worse. Far more skeletons to hide in her closet. At least with Trump, what you see is what you get.
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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:25 pm

living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:19 pm
with Trump, what you see is what you get.
Ask Stormy what she saw, and got.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by living_stradivarius » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:29 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:25 pm
living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:19 pm
with Trump, what you see is what you get.
Ask Stormy what she saw, and got.
Ask what Jeffrey Epstein's underaged girls saw, and got.

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Oh look, Kevin Spacey's there too. A mighty fine cast of friends. :x
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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:36 pm

The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by living_stradivarius » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:38 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:36 pm
The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.
Indeed, the number of "walls closing in on Trump" headlines posted by jserraglio here far outnumber anyone else's political opinions
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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:45 pm

living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:38 pm
Indeed, the number of "walls closing in on Trump" headlines posted by jserraglio here far outnumber anyone else's political opinions
Don't like 'em? Don't read 'em.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by living_stradivarius » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:53 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:45 pm
living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:38 pm
Indeed, the number of "walls closing in on Trump" headlines posted by jserraglio here far outnumber anyone else's political opinions
Don't like 'em? Don't read 'em.
You bet I won't. What few replies I do post are a simple wake-up call to reality. Keep dreaming. See you at the reelection.
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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:02 pm

living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:53 pm
You bet I won't.
Aw, does that mean we're not friends?
Last edited by jserraglio on Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by lennygoran » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:47 pm

:( :( :(
living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:20 pm
lennygoran wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:30 pm
-collusion, cooperation, lying, corruption,sexual harrassment and maybe even rape-
Hillary is no different in this respect.

Sabotaging the Sanders campaign with the DNC through collusion, corruption, and lying. Talking through both sides of her mouth when we all know she's a pet of Goldman Sachs.
Yes, even sexual harassment and rape of underage girls in her complicity with her husband's behavior (http://gawker.com/flight-logs-put-clint ... 1681039971). Dems were oh so willing to let her into the White House and yet Trump is the problem?

The outcome of the next Presidential election is going to just confirm how far out of touch MSM is with the majority of the voting public. 24/7 CNN news headlines are endless attempts to spin the situation like the walls are caving in on Trump when the reality is far from such a scenario.
IMO you're way off with this-for example has did Hillary lied over 4000 times? Who has she raped? Has she obstructed justice? Does she have the same corruption issues as the Trump clan. Nope don't buy much of what you say. Disappointed that a guy with your intelligence wouldprovide such desperate spin on how Trump has behaved and lied. Len :(

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by living_stradivarius » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:55 pm

lennygoran wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:47 pm
:( :( :(
living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:20 pm
lennygoran wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:30 pm
-collusion, cooperation, lying, corruption,sexual harrassment and maybe even rape-
Hillary is no different in this respect.

Sabotaging the Sanders campaign with the DNC through collusion, corruption, and lying. Talking through both sides of her mouth when we all know she's a pet of Goldman Sachs.
Yes, even sexual harassment and rape of underage girls in her complicity with her husband's behavior (http://gawker.com/flight-logs-put-clint ... 1681039971). Dems were oh so willing to let her into the White House and yet Trump is the problem?

The outcome of the next Presidential election is going to just confirm how far out of touch MSM is with the majority of the voting public. 24/7 CNN news headlines are endless attempts to spin the situation like the walls are caving in on Trump when the reality is far from such a scenario.
IMO you're way off with this-for example has did Hillary lied over 4000 times? Who has she raped? Has she obstructed justice? Does she have the same corruption issues as the Trump clan. Nope don't buy much of what you say. Disappointed that a guy with your intelligence wouldprovide such desperate spin on how Trump has behaved and lied. Len :(
Let's go through them, then, shall we?
https://www.politifact.com/personalitie ... ing/false/

She took money from a convicted pedophile sex offender and furthermore she was complicit in her husband's ongoing participation in the rape of underage girls. Are we just going to ignore this? https://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/ ... ing-237983

Do I need to bring up her collusion with the DNC in sabotaging Bernie Sanders' campaign again or are we just going to selectively ignore her history? We can go back to her dealings with GS and her failure as SecState too, but do we even need to go that far?
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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:20 pm

living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:55 pm
We can go back to her dealings with GS and her failure as SecState too, but do we even need to go that far?
Indeed, who would be so bold as to take issue with your restraint and fair-mindedness?

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by Belle » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:53 pm

It's disappointing to see these arguments here on CMG. I laughed to myself when I saw the heading of this thread and wondered if anybody here knows that in Beethoven's time "Fortresses" was the term used in Vienna for prostitutes!! :twisted:

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by living_stradivarius » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:43 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:20 pm
living_stradivarius wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:55 pm
We can go back to her dealings with GS and her failure as SecState too, but do we even need to go that far?
Indeed, who would be so bold as to take issue with your restraint and fair-mindedness?
If you want to play the game of speculation, she looks far worse. Sure, take all the circumstantial evidence surrounding Clinton's destruction of emails that were effectively subpoenaed. And not give her any benefit of the doubt about the timeline of the email wipe or its intent, since we're certainly not giving Trump any leeway in the Mueller investigation :roll: . What if there were damning evidence showing she knew about the attack on the Benghazi before it happened and didn't take it seriously? What if this? What if that? Same kind of speculation Liberal MSM is driving with the idea of Trump - Russia collusion. In the case of Hillary, it's something she did while she was at her post as SecState that ultimately cost American lives.

But hey, let's overlook the fact that she commingled state secrets and classified information with her own private emails. You know, like we're overlooking Trump's payment of hush money to a porn star using funds he didn't declare as part of campaign spending; the money was ultimately his own but sure, let's go with the assumption he commingled campaign funds with personal funds. I wonder which offense the public will take more seriously - hiding one's own dereliction of duty and endangerment of national security OR hiding one's own sexual activities :roll: Oh right, the public already voted on the former in November 2016. And the latter? You'll see how trivial this will be come 2020, seeing as how, you know, the public didn't give a damn about the same media circus when Bill lied under oath about getting a blowjob in the Oval Office.
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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by lennygoran » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:38 pm

liv on your references I'll have to view them when we return from our trip-here in madrid with only a tablet and so much to see and do I'll just say I hope the dems get the house in Nov and the Presidency and senate back in 2020-of course if the dems got the senate back in 2018 that would be even better. Sure hope trump impeachment can come asap but realize that would be real tough with all the spineless republicans around. Len

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:21 am

Belle wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:53 pm
It's disappointing to see these arguments here on CMG.
Disappointing to be sure, but unsurprising given the whataboutism Trumpistas often resort to when swamped with incontrovertible evidence of Trump's unfitness for office (cf. Bob Woodwards's new book), in the present instance, the tactic being to level scurrilous personal attacks against Hillary Clinton.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by Belle » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:43 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:21 am
Belle wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:53 pm
It's disappointing to see these arguments here on CMG.
Disappointing to be sure, but unsurprising given the whataboutism Trumpistas often resort to when swamped with incontrovertible evidence of Trump's unfitness for office (cf. Bob Woodwards's new book), in the present instance, the tactic being to level scurrilous personal attacks against Hillary Clinton.
In my opinion these pages are purely partisan! That's why I don't read anything about US politics.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:11 pm

Belle wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:43 pm
In my opinion these pages are purely partisan! That's why I don't read anything about US politics.
Of course they are: they are meant to be partisan. In my view, partisan politics, next to sports, is one of life's unsung pleasures (and a fully permissible activity in this area of CMG). I had a friendly hour-long chat just yesterday with an avid Trump supporter who teaches gov't at my school. Scurrilous ad hominem attacks on a political figure are quite another matter though, unless based on credible information from multiple sources.

BTW, I watched the video in the other thread you posted, the interview with the UK headmistress and liked it a lot. My grandson started kindergarten this year and loves school. Asked what he liked the most, he says, "THE RULES!"
Last edited by jserraglio on Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by Belle » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:31 pm

I don't think I ever implied that discussion of any kind should not be permissible. It's just a shame when people agree on so much elsewhere on this board, that's all. Character assassination seems part of the overall mix, from where I'm standing.

Glad you watched "The Rubin Report"; that woman is inspirational!! And I used to do many of the things she does - made the kids stand in two straight lines outside the classroom, remove hats and books from bags and remain silent. They glowered and growled at first but after a while I'd say "what am I waiting for?" and they'd make good. Some of my colleagues said I was 'old school' and that "you're lucky because you have a strong personality"!! I gave kids 'lines' too when they misbehaved and this always aroused laughter in the staffroom. "No, Sue; that hasn't been done for decades". My response was "you tell me I cannot use what works so now we do it my way". (Sound of crickets) And the aboriginal boy who told me I couldn't look him in the eyes because of cultural sensitivity (he'd been told this was part of 'official policy'). The boy was three quarters white and I said to him, "look around this room; whose room is it?" and he replied "yours miss". T'was then that I said, "OK, so we do it MY WAY". (I was the only teacher in the school able to teach this super-bright but reluctant student anything at all.)

Luck? Nothing to do with it. Glad your grandson enjoys school.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:39 pm

Belle wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:31 pm
1) Character assassination seems part of the overall mix, from where I'm standing.

2) made the kids stand in two straight lines outside the classroom, remove hats and books from bag and remain silent.
1) In Trump's instance, it's all fully backed up as Bob Woodward, himself no liberal, demonstrates abundantly and redundantly in his exceptionally fine new investigative book, Fear. In H. Clinton's case, not so much: hate, venom and envy carry the day there.

2) Sounds exactly like the elementary schools I went to: As Walter Sobchak explains about bowling in The Big Lebowski: "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are RULES." My public-school, first-grade teacher -- unquestionably, the most important teacher, including the university professors. Readjusting the life-trajectory of a 6-year-old. Tough to top that.

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by Belle » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:26 pm

"The Big Lebowski" - definitely one of the all-time greats!! So funny at nearly every single stage. Memorable scenes piled on top of each other. The Maud Lebowski kidnapping was the only mildly amusing part of the film and it was the only serious distraction. The rest was perfect. Quotes upon quotes...."You're out of your element, Donny"..... "my buddies didn't die face-down in the slime in Nam for this"!...."after the what-have-ya".... "oh no - he has health issues" (the guy in the iron lung)...."leads"..."that rug really tied the room together, did it not?"

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:44 pm

Lebowski's my next film to screen in class, tomorrow, after we finish watching an indie gem, Little Miss Sunshine.

Re: TBL. Just love the easter-egg tributes to NxNW's Cary Grant's getting the phone # off the notepad, to Busby Berkeley and to 1940s film noir crime thrillers

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by Chalkperson » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:23 pm

Belle, you have no idea how disgustingly partisan the Pub was long ago. slowly but surely the right wingers all lost their cool and are now gone. My friend Mt Stradivarius has never broken any rules and always speaks his mind.

The concept of everyone agreeing with one side is a nice idea, but fantasy nonetheless.

I was at Mrs Clinton's 60th Birthday Party, and also know a lot about Obamas rise to fame. She would stab anyone in the back to further her career. He's an intelligent guy, but both are Hawks, not Doves
Sent via Twitter by @chalkperson

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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:02 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:23 pm
Belle, you have no idea how disgustingly partisan the Pub was long ago. slowly but surely the right wingers all lost their cool and are now gone. My friend Mt Stradivarius has never broken any rules and always speaks his mind.

The concept of everyone agreeing with one side is a nice idea, but fantasy nonetheless.

I was at Mrs Clinton's 60th Birthday Party, and also know a lot about Obamas rise to fame. She would stab anyone in the back to further her career. He's an intelligent guy, but both are Hawks, not Doves
Oh, CMG was a horror story under Corlyss, and as for Strad, he is an unexpected and not necessarily pleasant reappearance after many years (unlike yourself, Chalkie). As for "hawkish" and ambitious presidents or presidential candidates, two words: Abraham Lincoln.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach


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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by living_stradivarius » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:47 pm

much ado about nothing, msm's MO
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Re: Fortress Trump is being undermined as Manafort pleads guilty, agrees to cooperate with Mueller

Post by jserraglio » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:52 pm

living_stradivarius wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:47 pm
much ado about nothing
The Taming of the Screw, a comedy of errors, measure for measure, as you like it or what you will.

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Paying tribute to the UK/US ‘special relationship’, the colourful mural on Great Eastern Street, Shoreditch shows the two world leaders in a pretty cringeworthy position.

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