Pro-Trump Protesters to Gather Amid Fears of Violence

[maestrob]

With a grand stage, video monitors and a planned presidential appearance, pro-Trump demonstrators will condemn Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s victory with a planned show of force.

By Zolan Kanno-Youngs and Matthew Rosenberg
Published Jan. 5, 2021
Updated Jan. 6, 2021, 8:24 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON — Thousands of Trump supporters are expected to gather Wednesday in the nation’s capital to hear a defeated president and his allies amplify false claims of election fraud during a rally steps from the White House.

Local authorities have enhanced security and warned residents in and around the city to steer clear of potentially violent agitators.

The scene taking shape on the grassy elliptical park just behind the White House is extraordinary. A grand bandstand was erected, huge speakers were attached to tall scaffolding, and thousands of chairs were unfolded on muddy grass ahead of rallies to proclaim victory for a president who lost soundly in November.

President Trump will be leaving office in two weeks, all protests aside.

But he plans to make an appearance on Wednesday at one of the events near the White House that he has promoted relentlessly for weeks as a show of force as he struggles to overturn the legitimate election results.

The events and vitriol had already begun on a rainy Tuesday in Washington, a day before Congress’s formal counting of the Electoral College votes. Some of Mr. Trump’s allies, including the conspiracy theorist and conservative radio host Alex Jones and some associates who recently received a pardon from the president, spoke to hundreds of people who crowded into the city’s Freedom Plaza on Tuesday evening.

Michael T. Flynn, the former national security adviser whom Mr. Trump pardoned last month, thanked all of the “digital soldiers” — a clear-cut reference to the convoluted pro-Trump conspiracy theory QAnon — who were fighting to keep the president in office. Patrick Byrne, the founder of Overstock.com and a vocal Trump backer, spoke of a White House meeting that he and Mr. Flynn attended last month, suggesting that the idea of claiming foreign interference as a way to invalidate the election was discussed with the president.

Though the Trump supporters at Freedom Plaza and elsewhere in Washington were peaceful throughout the day, as the rally wound down after dark, groups of men wearing body armor and helmets began showing up. Some were with the Proud Boys, while others wore insignia identifying them as members of the Three Percenters, a far-right militia group. A few carried baseball bats and clubs.

Asked why they were at the rally in helmets and body armor, a man who appeared to be leading the Three Percenters said, “You know why we’re wearing helmets.” He refused to give his name, angrily dismissing the news media as “traitors” who “gave up on this country.”

By Tuesday night, the Metropolitan Police Department recorded arrests of five people on charges of assault and weapons possession, including one person who was charged with assaulting a police officer.

Organizers were preparing for an expected crowd of 5,000 on Tuesday and more than 30,000 throughout the week, according to permits issued by the National Park Service. Local government officials warned that the events could turn tumultuous. Mayor Muriel Bowser of Washington requested assistance from the Army National Guard on Monday, and the local police warned that anyone who intended to arrive in Washington with a firearm, as some on social media sites promised to do, would be arrested.


Many of the hundreds of demonstrators who showed up on Tuesday for the “March to Save America” and “Stop the Steal” rallies chose not to wear masks to prevent transmission of the coronavirus. Some of the speakers during the rally at the Freedom Plaza delivered aggressive speeches claiming the groups were “at war,” targeting Republicans in Congress who have refused to protest the results of the election.

Dan Couture, 51, who drove to Tuesday’s rally from Colorado with two of his brothers, Pat and Dave, said they arrived “to make sure that all the votes that were legal are the votes that were counted.”

Just feet away, Richard Morris, 63, of Eaton Rapids, Mich., began to accept the outcome of the election that has already been affirmed by each of the states and the nation’s top election officials.

“If he doesn’t win it tomorrow, then this is over,” said Mr. Morris, an architect, although he said he believed Mr. Trump would still find a path to victory.

The president also confirmed Tuesday on Twitter that he would speak at the event at 11 a.m. Wednesday, while continuing to point the finger at Democrats, Republicans who refused to support his baseless claims and Antifa, a loose-knit antifascist movement with some followers who have been prone to commit acts of violence.

“I hope the Democrats, and even more importantly, the weak and ineffective RINO section of the Republican Party, are looking at the thousands of people pouring into D.C. They won’t stand for a landslide election victory to be stolen,” Mr. Trump said, using the acronym for “Republican in Name Only.”

Wednesday is expected to be an arduous and confusing day on Capitol Hill as Mr. Trump’s Republican allies move to challenge Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s victory, but those efforts will ultimately fail.

Yet despite Mr. Biden’s clear win, many of Mr. Trump’s allies were slated to speak at the protests this week and continue to promote the president’s false claims, including Roger J. Stone Jr. and George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign advisers who recently received pardons.

Some local officials directed residents to avoid downtown Washington altogether.

Marc Elrich, the executive of neighboring Montgomery County, Md., said that the demonstrations could turn violent with some of Mr. Trump’s supporters looking to disrupt the vote count.

“Protest organizations and the groups they represent have shown an alarming affinity for violence. Sadly, they have not been shy about suggesting the need for violence,” Mr. Elrich said in a statement. “There is talk of disrupting the counting of votes in Congress, which would require extreme actions.”

The leader of the Proud Boys, a far-right group that has supported Mr. Trump’s efforts to overturn the election results, was ordered by a judge to stay out of Washington after he was arrested on Monday on charges of destruction of property stemming from an episode in the city last month. Upon his arrest, the chairman of the Proud Boys, Enrique Tarrio, was found to have two high-capacity firearm magazines and was charged with possession.

In December, violent clashes in Washington between supporters of Mr. Trump and counterprotesters left four people with stab wounds. Preparing for similar brawls, the National Guard said on Monday it would dispatch about 340 troops to the rallies, responding to Ms. Bowser’s request for additional security.

“We’re asking D.C. residents and people who live in the region to avoid confrontations with anybody who’s looking for a fight,” Ms. Bowser said Monday during a news conference.

Capitol Police also increased the number of officers present on the Capitol grounds and encouraged lawmakers to arrive early and use underground tunnels to travel to the Capitol from their offices. That way, they can avoid walking or driving in the open.

Protesters have trickled to the Capitol since Monday, many without masks and crowded close together as they carried Trump flags and “Stop the Steal” banners. Senator Kevin Cramer, Republican of North Dakota, was seen speaking with Trump supporters who had come from his home state, repeatedly explaining why he had chosen not to object to the certification of electors. At one point, Mr. Cramer read them the entirety of the 12th Amendment, which outlines the elector process.

Such long-distance travel was not unusual. At least 10 busloads of Trump supporters from Michigan were planning to be in Washington on Wednesday to protest the election results, though Mr. Biden won the state decisively by more than 155,000 votes. Rocky Raczkowski, the chairman of the Oakland County Republican Party in Michigan, said the supporters were simply heeding Mr. Trump’s call to protest the election.

Cajun Guilbeau, 65, drove to downtown Washington from Louisiana in a truck covered with signs stating, “Stop the Steal” and “4 More Years!” He said that while some individuals may turn aggressive, those he knew to be gathering for the demonstrations only wanted to show their support for Mr. Trump.

“We’ve got jobs, we’ve got careers, we’ve got houses, we’re not going to do any of that nonsense,” Mr. Guilbeau said, who rents his old fire truck to production crews. “If Donald Trump secures a second term in the White House, I wanted to be here to support that.”

He said if he saw Mr. Biden move to the White House, he would feel less compelled to engage with the government on any level. “There’s no way I’m taking any vaccines,” he said.

Reporting was contributed by John Ismay and Emily Cochrane from Washington, Sheera Frenkel from Oakland, Calif., and Kathleen Gray from West Bloomfield, Mich.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/05/us/p ... e=Homepage

[lennygoran]

I've been watching the seditious breach--never seen anything like this. The worst. Regards, Len

[maestrob]

I've been watching the seditious breach--never seen anything like this. The worst. Regards, Len

Me too.

Who were all those people who said, "It can't happen here?"

[lennygoran]

I've been watching the seditious breach--never seen anything like this. The worst. Regards, Len

Me too.

Are they gonna clear this before it gets dark-where the HELL is the National Guard! Regards, Len

[maestrob]

I've been watching the seditious breach--never seen anything like this. The worst. Regards, Len

Me too.

Are they gonna clear this before it gets dark-where the HELL is the National Guard! Regards, Len

My understanding is that about 700-800 National Guard showed up this morning at the request of the Washington D. C. Mayor. I'm hearing now that local police from Montgomery County Maryland have also showed up to contain this insurrection.

[lennygoran]

My understanding is that about 700-800 National Guard showed up this morning at the request of the Washington D. C. Mayor. I'm hearing now that local police from Montgomery County Maryland have also showed up to contain this insurrection.

Brian haven't seen the National Guard yet. Smashed windows to get into the Capitol. A protester sitting in Pence's chair. Guns drawn in the chambers. Well the Maryland police have arrived. A woman has been shot. Regards, Len

[maestrob]

My understanding is that about 700-800 National Guard showed up this morning at the request of the Washington D. C. Mayor. I'm hearing now that local police from Montgomery County Maryland have also showed up to contain this insurrection.

Brian haven't seen the National Guard yet. Smashed windows to get into the Capitol. A protester sitting in Pence's chair. Guns drawn in the chambers. Well the Maryland police have arrived. A woman has been shot. Regards, Len

Are you watching CNN?

Our credibility as a society is being demolished by all this.

This is treason. By a sitting president.

[lennygoran]

Are you watching CNN? Our credibility as a society is being demolished by all this.This is treason. By a sitting president.

Yes CNN. Yes treason! Where's the 25th amendment when we need it! Regards, Len

[jserraglio]

Trump’s jig is up as of today.

1. He can be allowed to resign.
2. If not, Pence should move to remove him via the 25th Amendment and replace him as President until Jan 20.
3. (or) Congress should summarily impeach and convict him.

In any event, Trump must not be allowed to serve out the rest of his term.

After he is gone he should be indicted for incitement to riot.

[maestrob]

All the Washington D. C. National Guard has now been activated by the Department of Defense.

All the Senators and Representatives are safe as of this writing.

Trump has tweeted twice calling for rioters to be "peaceful."

What would the response have been if these rioters had been Black Lives Matter members?

One woman has been shot in the chest, and a police officer has been sent to the hospital.

[lennygoran]

Parts of Capitol evacuated, protestors surround building evacuated as Congress meets

Allan Smith and Ginger Gibson and Daniel Arkin 1 hr ago




WASHINGTON — Hundreds of protesters who massed in the nation's capital to support President Donald Trump's baseless claims of voter fraud descended on the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday afternoon as Congress convened to affirm President-elect Joe Biden's victory in the November election.
a group of people standing in front of a crowd © Provided by NBC News

The protesters marched en masse to the Capitol after Trump, speaking to a large crowd in front of the White House, vowed that he would never concede to Biden.

"We will never give up, we will never concede. You don't concede when there's theft involved," Trump said to a crowd of supporters, some of whom chanted "USA!" or waved anti-Biden banners.. He later falsely claimed Biden would be an "illegitimate" president.

The U.S. Capitol Police said it was areas near the building as pro-Trump protesters attempted to storm barricades set up outside the perimeter, and law enforcement officers were seen trying to push them back.

The Library of Congress, located directly across the street from the main Capitol building, was evacuated and people were told to remain calm and move in a safe manner to the exits.

Rep. Elaine Luria, D-Va., tweeted that she had to evacuate her congressional office because a pipe bomb was reported outside the Capitol. "Supporters of the President are trying to force their way into the Capitol and I can hear what sounds like multiple gunshots," Luria tweeted.

Meanwhile, the Republican National Committee headquarters in Washington, just steps from Capitol Hill, was evacuated earlier Wednesday due to a suspicious package, and investigation is underway.

Trump's groundless claims of voter fraud have been widely debunked, and his legal team's efforts to challenge the election results in court have been rejected by a succession of judges. Trump has claimed Wednesday's joint session of Congress represents a chance to overturn the election, even though state electors have already certified the results and the event inside the Capitol is ceremonial.


Trump has put pressure on Vice President Mike Pence, who will preside over the ceremony, claiming he can intervene in the count. In his lengthy and digressive remarks, Trump called on Pence to "do the right thing," even though Pence's ceremonial role does not provide him with the power to intervene in the counting of votes. Pence sent a letter to Congress ahead of the ceremony stating he would not be doing what Trump has hoped.

Jason Bjorklund, who flew to the nation's capital from Sioux Falls, South Dakota, said he did not know what to expect when Congress convened.

"I just felt compelled to be here because it seems like our republic is slipping away from us," Bjorklund said. He added, baselessly, that there were "mountains of evidence of fraud" and detailed conspiracy theories about Dominion voting machines.

When asked to account for the judges who have rejected the Trump legal team's attempts to challenge the election results, Bjorklund said: "I think we've got corruption from the top to the bottom."

Before the president's speech, it appeared some senators were being approached by Trump supporters near the Capitol, including an apparently exasperated Sen. Todd Young, R-Ind., who said he would not vote against affirming Biden's victory because he was bound to follow the law.



Theresa Reilly and her husband, Bill, came to the nation's capital from Michigan — a key Midwest swing state that fell into the Democratic column in November — to participate in the Wednesday protests because they believe Biden's triumph over Trump was fraudulent.

"We don't believe they're honest, true voters," Theresa Reilly said as Celine Dion's theme song from the movie "Titanic" played on a speaker system in the background. "There's a lot of cheating going on, and I think everybody knows that, including Democrats."

Bill Reilly said that even without "doing too much research," it was clear "something's up" with the November election results

"The only thing I can say is, however many people are here, this isn't going to go away," he said. "If you thought 2020 was weird, 2021 is going to be 'hold my beer,' if you ask me."


The deeply unsettling scene unfolded after President Trump, still refusing to admit that he lost the 2020 election, told supporters at a massive rally that they should “never give up” and “fight harder” to overturn Biden’s victory.





https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... uxbndlbing

[maestrob]

Joe Biden is speaking now.

"Our democracy is under assault."

[lennygoran]

Joe Biden is speaking now.

"Our democracy is under assault."

Brian thanks-I'm listening. Regards, Len

[Rach3]

We see again the real Right.

[maestrob]

We see again the real Right.

Domestic terrorism. As predicted by many here.

They will be stopped. Congress will resume.

Trump is speaking now in a short recorded message.

"We have to have peace......This was a fraudulent election.... I know your pain...Go home. We have to have peace."

Even now, he lies.

[jserraglio]

"We have to have peace......This was a fraudulent election.... I know your pain...Go home. We have to have peace."

Orwellian doublespeak. His subtext is even more of an incitement to violence. It was spoken w/o conviction in a perfunctory tone, almost as a hostage message.

Pence now has to assert himself and take the helm of the ship of state.

BTW, CNN just projected Ossoff as the winner over Perdue in GA. Life is a bitch for Mitch.

[maestrob]

A curfew starting about an hour from now has been announced.

Police snipers are starting to appear on building roofs.

[Rach3]

Even now, he lies.

Correct.He did not tell them to go home.They would not leave anyway.These are criminals who will vandalize the Capitol Building all night, perhaps days.Pray they don’t burn it down.
The US military will have to be involved ASAP, like it or not.

Every Trump voter and supporter is equally complicit in this, which includes most GOP and silent WH staffers.Exactly what I will tell my Trump friends.When my kids ask me, I can tell them I voted against Trump. My Trump friends can’t.I can live without such friends.

As I said recently, another day which shall live in infamy.Even worse than Dec. 7,1941 or the Lexington Commons or 9-11 as today America was attacked by some of its own “citizens”, and had a criminal as President who cared not a wit nor cared that 3000+ virus deaths also occurred that day while he launched the attack.

[Rach3]

Pence now has to assert himself and take the helm of the ship of state.

Pence gives Quisling a bad name.

[Rach3]

Police snipers are starting to appear on building roofs.

There will be armed conflict tonight unless the US Army is mobilized to the scene.These criminals are itching to use their weapons.

[maestrob]

Police snipers are starting to appear on building roofs.

There will be armed conflict tonight unless the US Army is mobilized to the scene.These criminals are itching to use their weapons.

Agree. This is just a lull in the storm.

I'm hearing that all Senators were able to escape the violence with their paperwork intact, and will resume their debate when all is safe in their chamber.

Cabinet should meet, immediately invoke the 25th amendment. If that happens, will Pence pardon Trump?

[Rach3]

I'm hearing that all Senators were able to escape the violence with their paperwork intact, and will resume their debate when all is safe in their chamber.

MSNBC is reporting that some House or Senate members,when many were herded together into a small, but crowded,safe area by Capitol police, still refused to wear virus masks.
These assholes should be named, and a motion to expel them from Congress at least advanced so they will have to vote the motion down.

[Rach3]

Cabinet should meet, immediately invoke the 25th amendment. If that happens, will Pence pardon Trump?

Pence has already peed his pants several times today, even before the assault on the Capitol.

[diegobueno]

MSNBC is reporting that some House or Senate members,when many were herded together into a small, but crowded,safe area by Capitol police, still refused to wear virus masks.
These assholes should be named, and a motion to expel them from Congress at least advanced so they will have to vote the motion down.

Someone should have said "You have a choice in here: put on a mask or go out there and face the crowds".

[maestrob]

Cabinet should meet, immediately invoke the 25th amendment. If that happens, will Pence pardon Trump?

Pence has already peed his pants several times today, even before the assault on the Capitol.

Capitol building is now secure.

Curfew in just a few minutes. 6PM-6Am tomorrow. Crowds are ignoring it.

[jserraglio]

Pence now has to assert himself and take the helm of the ship of state.

Pence gives Quisling a bad name.

Maybe so, but he still holds office for the next 2 weeks. Let's see whether or not he rises to the challenge.

[maestrob]

The woman who was shot in the chest has just died.

Add incitement to murder to charges against Trump.

Pence MUST now invoke 25th Amendment.

[Belle]

Oh, this is absolutely rich. A party and its supporters which refused to accept 'loser consent' for 4 long years, attempting impeachment, humiliating a Supreme Court candidate in front of the whole world (Kavanaugh), tearing up a State of the Union address (in front of the whole world) and then enabling its supporters burn the streets of many cities; NOW it's concerned about democracy!!??

You break it; YOU OWN IT.

[barney]

We see again the real Right.

What, the ones that Belle says are never violent, it's only the left?

[barney]

Oh, this is absolutely rich. A party and its supporters which refused to accept 'loser consent' for 4 long years, attempting impeachment, humiliating a Supreme Court candidate in front of the whole world (Kavanaugh), tearing up a State of the Union address (in front of the whole world) and then enabling its supporters burn the streets of many cities; NOW it's concerned about democracy!!??

You break it; YOU OWN IT.

And Trump should have been impeached, had Republicans respected their oaths to the Constitution. He's utterly corrupt, and should be in jail.
And perhaps you have short-term memory problems, but the Republicans obstructed Obama at every step, even when they didn't disagree with his policies. It was a matter of principle, like Abbott in Australia. They broke the system, and the Democrats responded - but in their case against a vicious, conscienceless thug. I suppose in your mind these are Antifa thugs invading the Capitol,pretending to be right-wing goons, because you seem unable to criticise anything by the right.
The Republicans have not been concerned about democracy for a long time - I refer you to the Krugman article Brian posted a couple of week ago.

[Belle]

We see again the real Right.

What, the ones that Belle says are never violent, it's only the left?

Conservatives didn't burn streets, set buildings alight, trash peoples' businesses.

NO violence is acceptable, but it's hugely hypocritical for those who've previously turned a blind eye now to be 'concerned'. When you start this kind of politics - where you refuse to accept a leader like Trump - then don't be surprised if you get this outcome.

Donald Trump is and was the Frankenstein Monster of the American Left. The Secret Service needs to get him by the scruff of the neck and boot him from the premises, just as his dignified wife surely will the day after.

I'm afraid the Democrats' chickens have come home to roost and any person with an IQ above room temperature would have foreseen it. How many times on this very forum did I ask "you've had one civil war; do you want another?".

The people should always accept a political lose; that's what loser consent is. And then they should await the requisite 4 years until their own party can be elected. We do it here in Australia as elsewhere in the democratic world. The American political system went against this with the election of Donald Trump. As ye sew, so shall ye reap.

I'm sorry for all of you; those who are too blind to see and those who are easily led.

And as for the 'equality of outcomes' espoused by Ms Harris, recently Dr. Sowell has said, "when there's not even equality of outcomes in any single family of children how in the world can you expect this on a national level?". I guess you've got to be smart enough to understand that, though.

The drums of war and Trump, Trump, Trump Derangement Syndrome are bearing fruit. As we speak. He's a tool, but you disrespect one half of your nation when you call the people who voted for him insulting names including, but not limited to, deplorables, toxic males. Yadda Yadda.

Happy people don't talk this way; intelligent people don't talk this way; hypocrites talk this way. And please spare us the 'compassionate Left' bogus refulgences.

[maestrob]

The Senate will reconvene in about one hour, at 8PM, to resume certifying the vote.

[jserraglio]

Conservatives didn't burn streets, set buildings alight, trash peoples' businesses. . . . Happy people don't talk this way; intelligent people don't talk this way; hypocrites talk this way. And please spare us the 'compassionate Left' bogus refulgences.

No surprise, actually, to hear you go all squishy about the Deplorables (using the politest word they deserve) so long as they are anointed at the highest level of governmental authority.

[jserraglio]

There will be armed conflict tonight unless the US Army is mobilized to the scene.These criminals are itching to use their weapons.

The U.S. Army should NOT be deployed against American citizens. Period.

[Rach3]

There will be armed conflict tonight unless the US Army is mobilized to the scene.These criminals are itching to use their weapons.

The U.S. Army should NOT be deployed against American citizens. Period.

Citizens,agreed ; but these are criminals led by a criminal.

[jserraglio]

I could not disagree more. We do not deploy the army against civilians, even against criminals except in the most exceptional circumstances. This is not one of them. The D.C. Met Police and the D.C. National Guard are the proper law enforcement agencies to call upon.

[Chalkperson]

Hey Guys, few things you should know.

Pence and SECDEF called in the National Guard.
Pence does not hold that authority.
He does now...

The National Guard are not armed at all.
No guns, no riot guns.

You cannot bring in the military,
Ten former CECDEF's wrote an opinion stating that this weekend.

The woman shot and killed was one of the rioters who penetrated the building.

Trump could resign, or be impeached tonight, if he resigns he can be Pardoned, BUT, he hasn't pardoned his family yet.

[Rach3]

The only people who turned a “blind eye” to Trump were the GOP sycophants, alt.right,alt.White, ignorant , and criminals now assaulting the Capitol. A majority of Americans did not vote for Trump in 2016.Even Confederate Georgia finally had enough in 2020.

America never promised equality of outcome,only some opportunity.It’s the Trump mob who wants same outcome,earned or not, Trump promised it, MAGA, and just like Barnum suckers the mob swallowed the bait.

The only hypocrites are those Right who claim to give a damn about people , while they just continue to protect their privileges by supporting so called “liberal” , ie protect mine, not progressive, governments.

[jserraglio]

Hey Guys, few things you should know.

Pence and SECDEF called in the National Guard.
Pence does not hold that authority.
He does now...

The National Guard are not armed at all.
No guns, no riot guns.

You cannot bring in the military,
Ten former CECDEF's wrote an opinion stating that this weekend.

The woman shot and killed was one of the rioters who penetrated the building.

Trump could resign, or be impeached tonight, if he resigns he can be Pardoned, BUT, he hasn't pardoned his family yet.

Thanks for the info. I agree, Trump is history as of today. He just doesn't know it yet. If he remains in office for 14 more days, he will be President in name only, which has been the case for some time now, but now everybody will know it.

[Rach3]

I could not disagree more. We do not deploy the army against civilians, even against criminals except in the most exceptional circumstances. This is not one of them. The D.C. Met Police and the D.C. National Guard are the proper law enforcement agencies to call upon.

One of the last times I recall an armed mob invading the Capitol building, or WH (?), was the British Army in 1812? The Brits did not have AR -15.Not sure the Congress was even in session then.

[Rach3]

Hey Guys, few things you should know.

Pence and SECDEF called in the National Guard.
Pence does not hold that authority.
He does now...

Thanks, but I guess no surprise criminal Trump refused, he could care less if people get killed.Who had to hold Pence’s hand ?

[jserraglio]

One of the last times I recall an armed mob invading the Capitol building, or WH (?), was the British Army in 1812? The Brits did not have AR -15.Not sure the Congress was even in session then.

So what? The Brits were foreign invaders not American citizens. Perfectly legitimate to call in the Army to repel invasion by a foreign power.

[jserraglio]

Hey Guys, few things you should know.

Pence and SECDEF called in the National Guard.
Pence does not hold that authority.
He does now...

Thanks, but I guess no surprise criminal Trump refused, he could care less if people get killed.Who had to hold Pence’s hand ?

Chalkperson may be hinting that Pence is now de facto the Acting President, at least till the dust settles on today's debacle. And so far today I think the VP has acquitted himself honorably.

[Chalkperson]

Last weekend Trump flew back from Mar A Lago to instruct the pentagon to recall the Aircraft Carrier Nimitz from the Gulf.
\
Against the advice of SECDEF and the Joint Chiefs.

This was to encourage Iran to make War, but the Iranians are not stupid,
the nimitz was turned back around less than 36 hours later.

That maybe when they first considered him to be more than dangerous.

The only way to stop the Presidents powers is to take them away.

25th Ammendment adds fuel to the GOP Fires

Impeachment is too procedurally long.

Resignation takes care of it.

Pence then can legitimately Pardon Trump and his family.

This was the way it was always expected to end

Nobody thought it would take four years.

He is off Twitter for 12 hours, Twitter is a private company

they can silence him if needed.

Their wording suggests that.

[jserraglio]

Thank you. I found your comments on the Nimitz particularly interesting because they suggest that active insubordination to Mr. Trump in the White House and by the top military leaders began as early as New Year's weekend. That makes sense given the events surrounding the calling up of the National Guard today.

I think he'll be gone by the weekend, maybe as you suggest, with the promise of a pardon.

Cruz's and Hawley's political careers are effectively over. Romney wrote their obit tonight and Graham openly ridiculed them on the Senate floor. Cruz and Hawley have damaged the Constitution.

[Chalkperson]

I have a friend, Col. Bob, who worked at the very highest levels of the Pentagon,

in the Office of Net Assesment.

It actually does not get higher, its next door to SECDEF's office.

at the beginning of the presidency
SECDEF was a marine general
WH Chief was a marine general
Joint Chief was a marine general.

Bob said if i saw all three resign simultaneously it meant this.

Trump had pressed the nuclear button.

By resigning the Chain of Command was broken.

there was no second key.

that was four years ago...

Bob is a Military Historian,

he is currently writing the official history of the Army from Gulf War One forwards.

and he always knows what he is talking about.

The Nimitz brought to a head an incident that started five weeks ago.

[jserraglio]

I have a friend, Col. Bob, who worked at the very highest levels of the Pentagon, in the Office of Net Assesment.

It actually does not get higher, its next door to SECDEF's office . . . .

The Nimitz brought to a head an incident that started five weeks ago.

I too am very impressed by a whole bunch of folks currently serving in the military. In many ways I trust our generals more than civilian leaders (like Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz) who have not only covered themselves with dishonor but this morning have the blood of four people on their hands because they would not heed, of all people, their own Majority Leader.

I also am obligated (while you are here) to say thanks to you, for you were the one who opened my eyes late in 2015 to the danger Trump posed to the nation. I had hardly ever posted anything about politics in this forum before that.

[barney]

I have a friend, Col. Bob, who worked at the very highest levels of the Pentagon, in the Office of Net Assesment.

It actually does not get higher, its next door to SECDEF's office . . . .

The Nimitz brought to a head an incident that started five weeks ago.

I too am very impressed by a whole bunch of folks currently serving in the military. In many ways I trust our generals more than civilian leaders (like Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz) who have covered themselves with dishonor and this morning have the blood of four people on their hands because they would not heed, of all people, their own Majority Leader.

I also am obligated (while you are here) to say thanks to you, for you were the one who opened my eyes late in 2015 to the danger Trump posed to the nation. I had hardly ever posted anything about politics in this forum before that.

I agree. They have shown loyalty to the Constitution, despite being white-anted from the top.

[jserraglio]

Oh, this is absolutely rich. A party and its supporters which refused to accept 'loser consent' for 4 long years, attempting impeachment, humiliating a Supreme Court candidate in front of the whole world (Kavanaugh), tearing up a State of the Union address (in front of the whole world) and then enabling its supporters burn the streets of many cities; NOW it's concerned about democracy!!??

You break it; YOU OWN IT.

Driving with eyes averted past the à la Trump cap-‘n’-punc roadkill, what about the Whataboutism?

[lennygoran]

Pence MUST now invoke 25th Amendment.

Brian this leads me to 2 questions. Regards, Len

2 questions:

1. So who does trump love more-the charlottesville nazis or yesterdays thugs?

2. Should it be the 25th amendment, impeachment or trump is censured