Pro-Trump Protesters to Gather Amid Fears of Violence

[jserraglio]

So who does trump love more-the charlottesville nazis or yesterdays thugs?

Trump ‘lovers’ Kim and Putin are rumored to be emotionally distraught after the U.S. President’s PDA yesterday for the rioters: "We love you. You are very special."

[maestrob]

Last weekend Trump flew back from Mar A Lago to instruct the pentagon to recall the Aircraft Carrier Nimitz from the Gulf.
\
Against the advice of SECDEF and the Joint Chiefs.

This was to encourage Iran to make War, but the Iranians are not stupid,
the nimitz was turned back around less than 36 hours later.

That maybe when they first considered him to be more than dangerous.

The only way to stop the Presidents powers is to take them away.

25th Ammendment adds fuel to the GOP Fires

Impeachment is too procedurally long.

Resignation takes care of it.

Pence then can legitimately Pardon Trump and his family.

This was the way it was always expected to end

Nobody thought it would take four years.

He is off Twitter for 12 hours, Twitter is a private company

they can silence him if needed.

Their wording suggests that.

Good morning, Chalkie.

I had signed off before you posted, so I'm catching up now. So very glad to see you here, and that you're still with us. It's been a while.

Yesterday's events were not totally unexpected, but still incredibly shocking. Actually, in a sick kind of way, it's rather laughable. THIS was his Trump card????

DJT should immediately be put on suicide watch, IMHO. He must live and be held accountable, along with the rest of his family that "served" in the White House.

What you say about the Nimitz and the nuclear button are both interesting points. Thanks for that. The Times had reported that the Acting Secretary of Defense (Chris Miller) had ordered the Nimitz withdrawn, but that Trump had overruled him a couple of days later.

Of course morale in the military must be at an all-time low right now, and not just because of this latest confusion.

I guess we'll never know for sure, but, since Wash. D. C. was so heavily fortified last summer for the BLM protests, with helicopters patrolling and so on, why the blank wasn't the same level of preparation made for these protests yesterday? ("We love you. You are very special.")

Inquiring minds want to know WHO held back the National Guard troops that Mayor Muriel Bowser had requested the day before? How exactly did that happen? Reporting is that Mike Pence finally gave the OK as Trump refused to do so, but, as I understand it, he doesn't have that authority.

How is it that nobody prepared for the violence that was obviously coming from these invading terrorists? CNN reported yesterday that before the violence happened, some cops were taking selfies with these thugs!

Finally, is anyone being prosecuted yet? Or was it just a lark for everyone involved, except for the woman who was shot to death and the cops who were injured (one hospitalized according to CNN)? 21 people were arrested during protests in November, yet by comparison only 13 people were arrested yesterday according to U. S. News.

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-ne ... ls-confirm

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/ar ... nt-clashes

So what's to be done with the 71 million people who voted for this President/terrorist? Furthermore, what's to be done with the incredible cowards in Congress who, even after yesterday's violence, still objected to the election results in Arizona and Pennsylvania?:twisted:

I'm sure I don't have any answers right now.

All I know is that DJT must be stopped immediately, somehow, from having any say in what happens until January 20, and that he must be blocked from running for office ever again, along with any of his sycophants in Congress who supported him.

25th Amendment? Second impeachment? They must be tried, even if they fail.

He should die broke and in prison.

[maestrob]

Pence MUST now invoke 25th Amendment.

Brian this leads me to 2 questions. Regards, Len

2 questions:

1. So who does trump love more-the charlottesville nazis or yesterdays thugs?

2. Should it be the 25th amendment, impeachment or trump is censured

Good morning, Len.

Do see what I just posted in answer to Chalkie, but to reply to you directly, I think that all the remedies you mentioned in question #2 should happen. ALL!

As for your first question, DJT loves anyone crazy enough to want to give him power. My guess is that there were plenty of neo-Nazis in that crowd of thugs yesterday.

[lennygoran]

Do see what I just posted in answer to Chalkie, but to reply to you directly, I think that all the remedies you mentioned in question #2 should happen. ALL!

As for your first question, DJT loves anyone crazy enough to want to give him power. My guess is that there were plenty of neo-Nazis in that crowd of thugs yesterday.

Brian yes I read the messages in order and was glad to read Chalkie's message. As for all 3 at once I hadn't thought about that-could all that be done within 13 days? Sure hope so! Regards, Len

[maestrob]

Do see what I just posted in answer to Chalkie, but to reply to you directly, I think that all the remedies you mentioned in question #2 should happen. ALL!

As for your first question, DJT loves anyone crazy enough to want to give him power. My guess is that there were plenty of neo-Nazis in that crowd of thugs yesterday.

Brian yes I read the messages in order and was glad to read Chalkie's message. As for all 3 at once I hadn't thought about that-could all that be done within 13 days? Sure hope so! Regards, Len

According to the Guardian, articles of impeachment have already been introduced, and the 25th Amendment process is also under consideration. Here's a short explainer article:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -term-ends

[lennygoran]

Here's a short explainer article:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -term-ends

Brian thanks for this link. Regards, Len

[barney]

Whatever way they want to go, it requires a few Republicans to show moral courage. So it's not going to happen.

[maestrob]

Whatever way they want to go, it requires a few Republicans to show moral courage. So it's not going to happen.

More than a few, I'm afraid. The 25th Amendment requires a 2/3 majority in Congress to actually remove Trump from office.

I watched Lindsay Graham last night on CNN giving up the ghost: boy, did he sound really strange when he refused to support the objection to Arizona's election results, but he did change his position after the violence. Many other Republicans who initially supported the objection in the Senate also changed their minds, so that, IIRC, only six out of 12 actually voted to oppose.

So I conclude that the processes should be started. Let the chips fall where they may.

[Chalkperson]

I watched until the gavel fell, and one thing bothered me all day.

The accusation of a cop posing for a selfie with a ‘thug’ I watched this ‘act’

A cop stood his ground while a ‘thug’ took a selfie with him.

First roll of civil defense, if a thug wants a selfie, don’t move a muscle.

That’s what happened. Nothing more or less.

My recent info says that Trump has zero access to the nuclear football.

None, that he relinquished control to stay in power.

He has his Twitter account back, but one wrong move and he loses it.

The Insurrection people had a lot of precise information, Pelosi’s office is not easy to find.

There is a post 9/11 $700 million bunker under congress, the Insurgents got there before the Senators and Congressmen.

Four people died, one woman was shot by cops, she was an insurgent.

At least one man fell off the capitol itself and died.

Not sure about the other two.

My military friends who were watching thought 30-50% of the insurgents in the park were armed.

Someone had made the decision not to involve firearms in the building.

Those arrested will mostly face simple charges like trespass.

Those that sat in the speakers chair committed a Federal Felony.

This was likely a single small militia, not a giant insurrection, at least not yet.

[Rach3]

From an Iowa newsletter:


On January 6, President Donald Trump incited insurrectionists to storm the United States Capitol in order to stop Congress from certifying Joe Biden’s victory. As the mob broke the glass on Capitol doors and burst into the chambers, Republican leaders across America tried to distance themselves from the violence.

The very same Republicans who have been slow to congratulate Biden. The very same Republicans who had no problem with the violence at Trump rallies or the credible accusations of sexual assault against the president. The very same Republicans who supported the violent policies that tore families apart at the border. Yes — those same Republicans now denounced the violence incited by the president.

This is the equivalent of tossing a match on gasoline-soaked lumber and tweeting out statements condemning the fire.

“I hate it to end this way,” mourned South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, after delivering a punchline-filled speech on the very same floor where, hours before, a mob had threatened to upend Democracy.

“This behavior is unacceptable and not who we are as Americans,” tweeted Iowa’s Republican Gov. Kim Reynolds. Three days after the AP called the election for Biden, Reynolds issued a statement implying the election wasn’t fair or transparent.

Newly elected Republican Iowa Rep. Ashley Hinson decried the violence in a tweet as well. But just days before, Hinson put her name on a letter that reiterated concerns about the election process and reiterated false claims that there were questions about its legitimacy: “We, like most Americans, are outraged at the significant abuses in our election system resulting from the reckless adoption of mail-in ballots and the lack of safeguards maintained to guarantee that only legitimate votes are cast and counted.”

To be fair, that letter at its core was a statement that asserted that Congress cannot overthrow the election results. But the constant undermining of the Democratic process — giving baseless allegations credence and airtime — is part of what got us here.

Missouri Sen. Josh Hawley, who has the moral integrity of wet cat food, decried the violence by rioters. But hours before, on his way into the Capitol, he’d given them a fist salute.

So many Republicans across America were hastily grabbing their pearls that they must have collectively asphyxiated and gotten amnesia about their role in this violence.

So many Lady MacBeths futilely washing their hands of complicity. So many Pontius Pilates, sending people to die, then asking not to be blamed.

But they do not get a pass. Every single Republican who did not vote to impeach this president. Every single one who overlooked his racism, his ableism, his misogyny because it benefited them politically — they are just as complicit as the president, as the men whose fists broke Capitol glass.

Americans have short memories and an appetite for a shallow hero. And I am afraid we will forget. We’ll let these men and women whitewash their reputations; hide their rot behind Botox, nice suits, and glossy hair.

But forgetting and ignoring the violence right in front of us was how we got here in the first place. Republicans and Democrats were too easy to dismiss Trump’s words as simple rhetoric, even as violence by white supremacists increased.

Trying to put out the flames once you’ve been burned with the fire you started doesn’t make you, or anyone, a hero.

[maestrob]

Missouri Sen. Josh Hawley, who has the moral integrity of wet cat food,

[maestrob]

This was likely a single small militia, not a giant insurrection, at least not yet.

IMHO, Chalkie, this was it for Trump's grand finale. He has finally conceded, albeit with caveats.

Nevertheless, that chill is still residing in my spine. Frankly, it will be there for a long time, even after 1/20/21.

Things have changed for all of us now.

[maestrob]

Woman who was killed during the attack was shot by the Capitol Police.

A woman who was fatally shot inside the Capitol after it was overrun by a pro-Trump mob was struck by gunfire from a Capitol Police officer, a police official said Wednesday night.

Chief Robert J. Contee of the Metropolitan Police Department told reporters that the woman had been shot by a police officer on Wednesday afternoon as plainclothes police officers confronted the mob. She later died in a hospital, he said, and the shooting is being investigated.

At least 14 Capitol Police officers were injured during the demonstrations on Wednesday, Chief Contee said, including two who were hospitalized.

A video posted to Twitter earlier on Wednesday appeared to show a shooting in the Capitol.

The woman in the video appeared to climb onto a small ledge next to a doorway inside the building immediately before a single loud bang is heard. The woman, draped in a flag, fell to the ground at the top of a stairwell. A man with a helmet and a military-style rifle stood next to her after she fell, and shouts of “police” could be heard as a man in a suit approached the woman and crouched next to her.

“Where’s she hit?” people yelled as blood streamed around her mouth.

Chief Contee said that three other deaths were reported on Wednesday — one woman and two men — from the area around the Capitol. He said, without elaborating, that the three people appeared to have “suffered from separate medical emergencies which resulted in their deaths.”

— Nicholas Bogel-Burroughs and Mike Ives

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/07 ... e=Homepage

[maestrob]

Here's a short explainer article:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -term-ends

Brian thanks for this link. Regards, Len

You're welcome, Len. To help clarify the issue, here are two points worth mentioning:

1) Invoking the 25th Amendment would immediately block Trump from using his Presidential powers until a hearing is completed and the issues raised are voted on by Congress. Thus, Mike Pence would immediately assume all powers of the Presidency.

2) Impeachment proceedings would begin in the House and, if approved, would immediately after a hearing and a vote there, move to the Senate for a trial. The Senate would probably then break down the trial into two issues: 1) Should Trump be removed from office because he has violated his oath to the Constitution (and any other charges the House may agree on), requiring a 2/3 vote for conviction and, 2) Should Trump be disqualified from running for public office again, which would only require a majority vote to decide.

Both the impeachment trial and the 25th Amendment issue would need to be decided speedily, but not necessarily voted on before January 20, if my online research is correct.

These procedures would have the immediate effect of stopping Trump cold from implementing any more of his fantasies.

Problem solved. Now, if only those with the power to do this have the courage!

Hang on!

[Chalkperson]

My understanding that even the simplest impeachment process takes nine days minimum.

But, if they vote to impeach, then he’s the first president in history to be impeached twice.

Invoking the 25th amendment is unlikely at this point, he’s better off resigning.

“Mr Nixon, they have the votes”

Then Pence pardons him.

[maestrob]

My understanding that even the simplest impeachment process takes nine days minimum.

But, if they vote to impeach, then he’s the first president in history to be impeached twice.

Invoking the 25th amendment is unlikely at this point, he’s better off resigning.

“Mr Nixon, they have the votes”

Then Pence pardons him.

Let's hope that Trump is too stubborn and confused at this point to realize this. It's better for the country AND the Republican party (not that I wish Republicans well at the moment ) for Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment, which would stop Trump in his tracks. Both impeachment proceedings and a debate on the 25th amendment could then be put on Congress's agenda. The procedures wouldn't have to be concluded by January 20th, and Biden would take the reins from Pence on January 20th without any further delay or fantasy rage attacks from Trump.

Trump is now out of his mind (according to aides leaking to CNN) and must be closed down immediately, IMHO. He's just not functional as a President now, if he ever was!

This would also begin the process of the Republican Party repudiating Trump, something they need to do to avoid a messy breakup.

I know it looks terrible for Republicans right now, but Jimmy Carter only lasted 4 years, in spite of the public's initial massive reaction against our criminal president Nixon. Reagan was elected so quickly because Ford's pardon of Nixon let America sweep that shameful episode under the rug so quickly.

The same thing could happen again if the above doesn't happen. Our country needs to establish once and for all that there are consequences for Republican lawlessness, something that they have been avoiding since Ford pardoned Nixon and lost to Jimmy Carter for doing it.

Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!

[lennygoran]

These procedures would have the immediate effect of stopping Trump cold from implementing any more of his fantasies.

Brian thanks-yes the goal is to stop him cold until Jan 20th! I'll add my feeling on this though-he should be pursued by Fed and State attorney generals for what he's done. I almost hope he goes to pardon himself and how the supreme court would rule on that. Regards, Len

[jserraglio]

If he’s too risky to be allowed on Facebook, how can it be safe to have him in the White House? The die is cast. Hopefully, by hook or by crook, he will be ousted by this weekend.

[maestrob]

These procedures would have the immediate effect of stopping Trump cold from implementing any more of his fantasies.

Brian thanks-yes the goal is to stop him cold until Jan 20th! I'll add my feeling on this though-he should be pursued by Fed and State attorney generals for what he's done. I almost hope he goes to pardon himself and how the supreme court would rule on that. Regards, Len

Yes sir!

Do remember, even if a pardon happens, either a "self-pardon" or from Mike Pence, it would only shield him from federal prosecution, not from any of the N. Y. State prosecutions for tax and bank fraud.

May he die broke and in jail, says I, the laughingstock of the world!

What a ridiculous figure in history.

[maestrob]

If he’s too risky to be allowed on Facebook, how can it be safe to have him in the White House? The die is cast. Hopefully, by hook or by crook, he will be ousted by this weekend.

From your mouth to God's ears, Joe!

[jserraglio]

Pence needs to make Trump an offer he can’t refuse. Problem is that taking the 25th could blow up any chance of his (or Pompeo’s) getting that coveted GOP nomination in 2024. But I think there still is an outside chance they could take the ball away from Schumer and Pelosi and either do it or, more likely, threaten to do it, to force the Donald to throw in the towel and resign.

[maestrob]

Pence needs to make Trump an offer he can’t refuse. Problem is that taking the 25th could blow up any chance of his (or Pompeo’s) getting that coveted GOP nomination in 2024. But I think there still is an outside chance they could take the ball away from Schumer and Pelosi and either do it or, more likely, threaten to do it, to force the Donald to throw in the towel and resign.

I also think that the move you posit above would help calm the situation in the country, which is what we all hope for.

If Pelosi and Schumer make the first move against Trump, that would inflame tensions, which may be why they are giving Republicans a chance to do something first. Unlike Republicans, they have consistently during the past four terrible years, put country before politics, as honorable public servants should.

[jserraglio]

I also think that the move you posit above would help calm the situation in the country, which is what we all hope for.

If Pelosi and Schumer make the first move against Trump, that would inflame tensions, which may be why they are giving Republicans a chance to do something first. Unlike Republicans, they have consistently during the past four terrible years, put country before politics, as honorable public servants should.

Absolutely. And it would also put the kibosh on any chance of Trump running again. Trouble is, this is profile-in-courage time for Pence. And he probably needs to convince both Pompeo and Meadows. But from what I read, he may be disturbed enough (his life, too, was put in danger by Trump) or just pissed off enough at Trump, to do it.

Bottom line: Trump is to be banished in disgrace. Time and place not of his choosing.

[maestrob]

I also think that the move you posit above would help calm the situation in the country, which is what we all hope for.

If Pelosi and Schumer make the first move against Trump, that would inflame tensions, which may be why they are giving Republicans a chance to do something first. Unlike Republicans, they have consistently during the past four terrible years, put country before politics, as honorable public servants should.

Absolutely. And it would also put the kibosh on any chance of Trump running again. Trouble is, this is profile-in-courage time for Pence. And he probably needs to convince both Pompeo and Meadows. But from what I read, he may be disturbed enough (his life too was put in danger by Trump) or just pissed off enough at Trump, to do it.

Bottom line: Trump is to be banished in disgrace. Time and place not of his choosing.

Last night on CNN, a certain Senator remarked anonymously that he had never seen Mike Pence so pissed off when they had to retreat from the chamber. Ever.

Pence has been a stalwart defender of the Constitution throughout his career. In spite of the fact that I strongly disagree with his interpretation, what happened on Wednesday was so obviously a blatant attempt to subvert the constitutional order of government, it probably has finally turned Pence against Trump for good.

[barney]

You are most likely right, Brian. But Pence reached the limit of his political courage in defying Trump on rejecting certification. Don't expect any more from him, like the 25th amendment.

[maestrob]

You are most likely right, Brian. But Pence reached the limit of his political courage in defying Trump on rejecting certification. Don't expect any more from him, like the 25th amendment.

Oh sure. I understand that so far he's against the idea. If he continues to hold out, watch what the House does on Monday morning. More Democrats support a second impeachment effort this time than supported the first one, according to a CNN banner headline quoting Speaker Pelosi today.

That would make Trump the first president in our history to be impeached twice.

[barney]

Yes, that might well happen, Brian; very likely in the House, but not sure you'll get enough Republican Senators to turn. You need 17, right?

[maestrob]

Yes, that might well happen, Brian; very likely in the House, but not sure you'll get enough Republican Senators to turn. You need 17, right?

An interesting point was raised last night on MSNBC by Rachel Maddow, and confirmed later by constitutional scholar Lawrence Tribe. Our Constitution only demands that, in order to convict the President of the impeachment charges in the Senate, 2/3 of the Senators "present in the chamber" must vote to convict. Tribe clarified that if a number of Republican Senators refused to be present, thus denying their votes to the proceedings, a conviction could happen with far fewer than 100 Senators being present, as long as a quorum is reached. Thus, the more radical elements of the party could abstain by not showing up, or saying that they had been exposed to the virus, (There were only 8 of them who voted to challenge the results of the election in Pennsylvania and Arizona, and some of those only voted against one of the two states.), while the rest might muster enough votes to meet the 2/3 threshold. Once Trump is convicted, it would take only a majority vote of those Senators present to deny him the ability to ever run for public office again.

To further complicate matters, Mitch McConnell has made it clear that he would not start a trial until the day of Joe Biden's inauguration, an hour before the ceremony, which would mean that Kamala Harris would preside over the trial after McConnell had presided for just 1 hour. McConnell's wife, transportation Secretary Elaine Chao, has also just resigned from the Cabinet, probably because she doesn't want to face the 25th Amendment issue.

Thus, the makeup of the Senate would change in favor of the Democrats. Lisa Murkowski, Republican from Alaska, just announced last night that she might leave the party, perhaps becoming an Independent who would caucus, like Bernie Sanders, with the Democrats. So far, she's the only one, but there might be more.

Stay tuned!

[lennygoran]

Bottom line: Trump is to be banished in disgrace. Time and place not of his choosing.

Yes what Lisa said!
Republican Sen. Lisa Murkowski calls for Trump to resign: ‘He has caused enough damage’

Regards, Len

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/08/alaska- ... sign-.html

[lennygoran]

An interesting point was raised last night on MSNBC by Rachel Maddow, and confirmed later by constitutional scholar Lawrence Tribe.

Brian yes I just watched that this morning on the DVR-I tape the big 3-rachel who raised the question, O'Donnell who gave his opinion but promised to ask Tribe who confirmed it! BTW the third of the big 3 is Brian Williams. Regards, Len