Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

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maestrob
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Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by maestrob » Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:43 pm

New polling shows that a growing share of U.S. citizens want leaders who wouldn’t “bother with” elections.

How about nearly 1/3 of us in a recent poll? :mrgreen:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/10/16/am ... democracy/

barney
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by barney » Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:09 pm

Democracy is doomed when the people who have its advantages stop valuing them.

China has a model for society it is eager to export. I wonder how these anti-democracy imbeciles will align that with their emphasis on individual freedoms. The CCP doesn't allow many. Honestly, could anything be more depressing?

jserraglio
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by jserraglio » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:13 pm

maestrob wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:43 pm
New polling shows that a growing share of U.S. citizens want leaders who wouldn’t “bother with” elections.
Yes, but are these voting citizens, or perennial moochers with a sense of entitlement? Many of these peaple [sic], like our esteemed President and this maskless Deplorable from Pennslvania [sic], find the written form of their native tongue to be a stumbling block.

Image

Rach3
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by Rach3 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:59 pm

barney wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:09 pm
Democracy is doomed when the people who have its advantages stop valuing them.

As an Australian at another CM group observed:


"... maybe that is too obvious to grasp for some, who would sell their soul, democracy, and their decency, for a slightly smaller rate of tax? Because as we all know, that is what it is really all about. "

Belle
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by Belle » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 pm

1. "A smaller rate of tax"? Two of my sons pay MORE THAN 50% of their income to our government, plus indirect consumption taxes. PAYE taxpayers are totally ripped off in Australia and carry the vast majority of our taxation. (Sooner or later the discussion had to get around to money, though. All the grievance and anger are really defacto discussions about money and how much better off some people are than others. Didn't see that coming!!)

2. And, only recently, I saw a discussion with the actor Denzel Washington. He was asked about BLM. He said "look at the families; the fathers are missing. If you have no father people on the streets become your father, and if you have no home the jail becomes your home and the judge becomes your parent". No amount of pressure on Washington to change his narrative had any effect; he was resolute.

*******

"This is a movement, I’m telling you, they’re not going to stop, and everyone beware, because they’re not going to stop before Election Day in November, and they’re not going to stop after Election Day, and everyone should take note of that, on both levels, that they’re not going to let up, and they should not, and we should not."
Kamala Harris - The Stephen Colbert Late Show on June 2020

"I just don’t know why there aren’t uprisings all over the country. Maybe there will be"
Nancy Pelosi to reporters.

As I've said, EPIC HYPOCRISY.
Last edited by Belle on Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jserraglio
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by jserraglio » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:09 pm

Belle wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 pm
EPIC HYPOCRISY.
So what? Hardly counts as news, does it?

Hypocrisy is a vice
Only in the Biblical world
Of your own device.
Last edited by jserraglio on Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Belle
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by Belle » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:10 pm

Absolutely priceless!!!!!!!!! :lol:

jserraglio
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by jserraglio » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:13 pm

Belle wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:10 pm
Absolutely priceless!!!!!!!!! :lol:
Actually, the 100 odd pardons Trump is set to issue this Tuesday are anything but priceless — they are fetching hefty sums on the grey market.

Sadly, Trump is not a hypocrite. He would have done far better had he donned the shallow mask of virtue on the off chance it might have overcome immunological rejection.

jserraglio
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by jserraglio » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:49 am

Belle wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 pm
I saw a discussion with the actor Denzel Washington. He was asked about BLM ... No amount of pressure on Washington to change his narrative had any effect; he was resolute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT1jLY20tLo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMdDwBliS-o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaNcxKOD2_op

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syv-FHnOoVM

barney
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by barney » Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:37 am

Belle wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 pm
1. "A smaller rate of tax"? Two of my sons pay MORE THAN 50% of their income to our government, plus indirect consumption taxes. PAYE taxpayers are totally ripped off in Australia and carry the vast majority of our taxation. (Sooner or later the discussion had to get around to money, though. All the grievance and anger are really defacto discussions about money and how much better off some people are than others. Didn't see that coming!!)

2. And, only recently, I saw a discussion with the actor Denzel Washington. He was asked about BLM. He said "look at the families; the fathers are missing. If you have no father people on the streets become your father, and if you have no home the jail becomes your home and the judge becomes your parent". No amount of pressure on Washington to change his narrative had any effect; he was resolute.

*******

"This is a movement, I’m telling you, they’re not going to stop, and everyone beware, because they’re not going to stop before Election Day in November, and they’re not going to stop after Election Day, and everyone should take note of that, on both levels, that they’re not going to let up, and they should not, and we should not."
Kamala Harris - The Stephen Colbert Late Show on June 2020

"I just don’t know why there aren’t uprisings all over the country. Maybe there will be"
Nancy Pelosi to reporters.

As I've said, EPIC HYPOCRISY.
Well they must be on salaries of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year then to pay so much. I wouldn't be whining too loudly on their behalf. Because - and it's a purely personal view - I think executive salaries are ludicrously high. The argument is "pay peanuts, get monkeys". The reality is "pay squillions, and still get monkeys". This is not to describe your sons in such pejorative terms because obviously I have no idea, but it is a general observation.
Last edited by barney on Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

Rach3
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by Rach3 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:53 am

You are known by the company you keep.Remind your Trumpist friends .

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cowboys-trum ... 11899.html

SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) — A New Mexico county official and founder of the group Cowboys for Trump who had vowed to return to Washington after last week’s riot at the U.S. Capitol to place a flag on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s desk has been arrested Sunday by the FBI.

Otero County Commissioner Couy Griffin was arrested on charges of illegally entering the U.S. Capitol.

According to court documents, Griffin told investigators that he was “caught up” in the crowd, which pushed its way through the barricades and entered the restricted area of the U.S. Capitol, but he said he did not enter the building and instead remained on the U.S. Capitol steps.

A video posted to Griffin's personal Facebook page shows Griffin in the restricted areas, according to the affidavit.

Griffin did not immediately respond to phone or text messages seeking comment.

On Thursday, Griffin, said he planned to travel with firearms to Washington, D.C., for Biden’s inauguration.

“I’m gonna be there on Jan. 20 ... and I’m gonna take a stand for our country and for our freedoms,” Griffin said during a meeting of the Otero County Board of Commissioners.

“I’m gonna leave either tonight or tomorrow. I’ve got a .357 Henry Big Boy rifle lever action that I’ve got in the trunk of my car and I’ve got a .357 single action revolver, the Colt Ruger Vaquero that I’ll have underneath the front seat on my right side and I will embrace my Second Amendment,” he said.

maestrob
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by maestrob » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:18 am

"This is a movement, I’m telling you, they’re not going to stop, and everyone beware, because they’re not going to stop before Election Day in November, and they’re not going to stop after Election Day, and everyone should take note of that, on both levels, that they’re not going to let up, and they should not, and we should not."Kamala Harris - The Stephen Colbert Late Show on June 2020
Guess what?

I agree with her. That's why I voted for her.

Hammering home the point with peaceful demonstrations against unwarranted killings of Black people by the police in the USA should continue unabated until those killings stop.

I've posted frequently and often about this horror in our society. Every week there's a new killing covered on TV, sometimes more than one. Many aren't even covered by the media, it happens so frequently. It must stop, or we'll have a replay of the riots in the 1950's and '60's.

barney
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by barney » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:48 am

barney wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:37 am
Belle wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 pm
1. "A smaller rate of tax"? Two of my sons pay MORE THAN 50% of their income to our government, plus indirect consumption taxes. PAYE taxpayers are totally ripped off in Australia and carry the vast majority of our taxation. (Sooner or later the discussion had to get around to money, though. All the grievance and anger are really defacto discussions about money and how much better off some people are than others. Didn't see that coming!!)

2. And, only recently, I saw a discussion with the actor Denzel Washington. He was asked about BLM. He said "look at the families; the fathers are missing. If you have no father people on the streets become your father, and if you have no home the jail becomes your home and the judge becomes your parent". No amount of pressure on Washington to change his narrative had any effect; he was resolute.

*******

"This is a movement, I’m telling you, they’re not going to stop, and everyone beware, because they’re not going to stop before Election Day in November, and they’re not going to stop after Election Day, and everyone should take note of that, on both levels, that they’re not going to let up, and they should not, and we should not."
Kamala Harris - The Stephen Colbert Late Show on June 2020

"I just don’t know why there aren’t uprisings all over the country. Maybe there will be"
Nancy Pelosi to reporters.

As I've said, EPIC HYPOCRISY.
Well they must be on salaries of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year then to pay so much. I wouldn't be whining too loudly on their behalf. Because - and it's a purely personal view - I think executive salaries are ludicrously high. The argument is "pay peanuts, get monkeys". The reality is "pay squillions, and still get monkeys". This is not to describe your sons in such pejorative terms because obviously I have no idea, but it is a general observation.
The very highest tax rate in Australia is 45 cents in the dollar. That is after you have paid only 17 to 37 cents for the first $180,000. So it is impossible for your sons to be paying more than 50 cents in the dollar unless you are including things other than income tax.
Everyone pays consumption tax. If they pay more it is because they are consuming more.

Rach3
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by Rach3 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:12 pm

maestrob wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:18 am
Guess what?
I agree with her. That's why I voted for her.
Racist Trump in action sotto voce.Per Axios today:


Efforts to save the office where Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., planned some of the most important moments of the civil rights movement are hitting roadblocks amid a political stalemate.

Why it matters: The U.S. Park Service needs to OK agreements so a developer restoring the historic Prince Hall Masonic Lodge in Atlanta — which once housed King's Southern Christian Leadership Conference — can tap into private funding and begin work.

The space where the office sat is empty, and advocates want former aides who are still alive to help recreate the atmosphere.

In 2018, President Trump signed a bill sponsored by the late Rep. John Lewis that designated the lodge, King’s birth home, Ebenezer Baptist Church, and King’s burial site as a national historic park.

Trump later complained that Lewis didn't attend any of his State of the Union speeches, and the administration stalled on agreements for the lodge.

What we’re hearing: Some Department of Interior projects, run by the National Park Service and the Bureau of Land Management, have halted as employees seek to remain low key in the final weeks of the Trump presidency and avoid his wrath.

The National Park Service said it was waiting on the masons who still own the building to proceed with the project, and the agency has offered technical assistance.

Flashback: “For many years, I worked with my congressional colleagues and the National Park Service to preserve these Atlanta landmarks and to enhance visitor experiences and services,” Lewis said in 2017 as he tried to push his proposal.

As part of the package, the Prince Hall Masonic Temple donated land to the National Park Service. The lodge was build in 1938 and served as a meeting place for Atlanta's Sweet Auburn Black neighborhood.
Lewis died last year.

What they're saying: "Since that law was signed by Trump, nothing really has happened between the Park Service and the Prince Hall Masons in terms of the agreements ... so they can interpret Dr. King's former offices," said E.W. Bowen & Co. founder Edward W. Bowen, the project's developer.

Bowen said private donors and the city of Atlanta will help fund the $10 million project to recreate King's mid-century Southern Christian Leadership Conference office for visitors to experience.
Further delays into the Biden administration may cause private funders to pull money for more shovel-ready projects, Bowen said.

Details: King operated the Southern Christian Leadership Conference beginning in 1957 in the lodge, and the masons provided security and protection in a fortified space with exit tunnels.

This is where King and his aides planned the Selma march, the Chicago desegregation fight, opposition to the Vietnam War, and the multiracial Poor People's Campaign.
It was there that King defied aides and told them he would go to Memphis to help striking Black sanitation workers where he delivered his final speech on April 3, 1968.
King was killed the next day.
Don’t forget: Projects like these allow visitors to have a tangible connection to the past and experience a multilayered story to civil rights, said Lawana Holland-Moore of the African American Cultural Heritage Action Fund.

"You are touching what they touched. You are literally walking where they walked."
The big question: The fight to resurrect King's office comes as advocates work to save other historic sites linked to civil rights.

A clubhouse of the League of United Latin American Citizens in Houston recently was deemed a landmark after a long battle. It was the site where Mexican Americans planned desegregation battles and a crucial meeting with President John F. Kennedy.
Advocates are trying to bring attention to the birthplace of United Farm Workers co-founder Dolores Huerta. It's currently an abandoned field in northern New Mexico.

Rach3
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by Rach3 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:15 pm

Belle wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 pm
As I've said, EPIC HYPOCRISY.
Trump heard you:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/18/politics ... index.html

barney
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by barney » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:04 am

Rach3 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:15 pm
Belle wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 pm
As I've said, EPIC HYPOCRISY.
Trump heard you:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/18/politics ... index.html
Belle, do you want to amend your claim that your sons are paying more than 50c in the dollar income tax?

maestrob
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by maestrob » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:49 am

Rach3 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:15 pm
Belle wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 pm
As I've said, EPIC HYPOCRISY.
Trump heard you:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/18/politics ... index.html
The irony of that report is that Carol Swain is Black, and a total conservative sellout. As a Black woman who grew up in total poverty in an abusive household the segregationist South, she should know better.

I cannot fathom how someone as intelligent and well-educated as she could possibly become a Trump supporter. I've seen her on TV and her views can be quite bizarre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_M._ ... l%20books.

Rach3
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by Rach3 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:13 pm

maestrob wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:49 am

The irony of that report is that Carol Swain is Black, and a total conservative sellout. As a Black woman who grew up in total poverty in an abusive household the segregationist South, she should know better.

Responses to the " 1776" report from historians:

WAPO 1/19:

Historians responded with dismay and anger Monday after the White House’s “1776 Commission” released a report that it said would help Americans better understand the nation’s history by “restoring patriotic education.”

“It’s a hack job. It’s not a work of history,” American Historical Association executive director James Grossman told The Washington Post. “It’s a work of contentious politics designed to stoke culture wars.”

The commission was created in September with a confusing news conference featuring Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson. The 45-page report is largely an attack on decades of historical scholarship, particularly when it comes to the nation’s 400-year-old legacy of slavery, and most of those listed as authors lack any credentials as historians. While claiming to present a nonpartisan history, it compares progressivism to fascism and claims the civil rights movement devolved into “preferential” identity politics “not unlike those advanced by [slavery defender John C.] Calhoun and his followers.”

“I don’t know where to begin,” said public historian Alexis Coe. “This ‘report’ lacks citations or any indication books were consulted, which explains why it’s riddled in errors, distortions, and outright lies.”

Kali Nicole Gross, a history professor at Rutgers and Emory universities and the co-author of “A Black Women’s History of the United States,” said it was “dusty, dated” and “the usual dodge on the long-lasting, harmful impacts of settler-colonialism, enslavement, Jim Crow, the oppression of women, the plight of queer people ... as the true threat to democracy.”

Boston University historian Ibram X. Kendi tweeted: “This report makes it seems as if slaveholding founding fathers were abolitionists; that Americans were the early beacon of the global abolitionist movement; that the demise of slavery in the United States was inevitable.”

“It’s very hard to find anything in here that stands as a historical claim, or as the work of a historian. Almost everything in it is wrong, just as a matter of fact,” said Eric Rauchway, a history professor at the University of California at Davis. “I may sound a little incoherent when trying to speak of this, because the report itself is not coherent. It’s like historical wackamole.”He pointed to sections misinterpreting Puritan John Winthrop’s “city on a hill” speech, and to a section claiming that the civil rights movement “came to abandon the nondiscrimination and equal opportunity of colorblind civil rights in favor of ‘group rights.’ ”“Group rights is not anathema to American principles,” he said, recalling the formation of the Senate. “Why do Wyomingers have 80 times the representation that Californians have if not for group rights?”

Coe, who published a biography of George Washington last year, pointed to a section of the report that claims that the first president had “freed all the slaves in his family estate” by the end of his life. In fact, he freed only one enslaved person upon his death; the 254 other enslaved people at Mount Vernon had a much more complicated fate.
George Washington owned slaves and ordered Indians killed. Will a mural of that history be hidden?

Hilary Green, a history professor at the University of Alabama, tweeted a list of books on American history people could read “instead of a certain report.”

Several historians said it was particularly offensive that the report was released on Martin Luther King Jr. Day and included several photos King and quotes they said were taken out of context.
“The suggestion that affirmative action programs are somehow antithetical to the vision of Martin Luther King Jr. is simply ludicrous,” said Princeton historian Kevin M. Kruse. “King was alive when the Johnson administration launched its affirmative action programs and publicly declared his support, specifically noting that it was a logical extension of the struggle for black equality. The document ignores King’s record of support for affirmative action, lamely pointing to the one line conservatives know from his ‘I Have a Dream’ speech and ignoring the rest of his radical record. The fact that this historical distortion of King’s life and work was released on MLK Day makes it even worse.”

“It is fitting that this president, who was impeached again, this time for inciting an insurrection in the nation’s capital, would mark his last Martin Luther King Jr. Day in office by attacking the very movement Martin Luther King Jr. was a leader of,” Coe said.

“To say that the racial divisions that have existed for the last half century are due to insistence by African Americans on ‘group rights’ rather than to the depth and breadth of racism, to say that on a page where you have a photograph of Dr. King is offensive to Dr. King’s legacy,” Grossman said.

The commission began in part as a response to the New York Times’s 1619 Project, a group of essays by historians and journalists about the way slavery has shaped the nation.

At the National Archives Museum on Sept. 17, President Trump criticized a New York Times project focused on the first arrival of enslaved Africans in Virginia.

Five professors say the 1619 Project should be amended. ‘We disagree,’ says the New York Times.
Even historians who have been critical of the 1619 Project, including Princeton’s Sean Wilentz, dismissed the 1776 report.
“It reduces history to hero worship,” Wilentz wrote in an email. “It's the flip side of those polemics, presented as history, that charge the nation was founded as a slavocracy, and that slavery and white supremacy are the essential themes of American history. It's basically a political document, not history.”


Historian Kevin M. Levin, author of several books about the Civil War, said: “The 1776 report views students as sponges who are expected to absorb a narrative of the American past without question. It views history as set in stone rather than something that needs to be analyzed and interpreted by students.”

The White House also released Monday a long list of historical figures to be featured at Trump’s proposed “National Garden of American Heroes.” Georgetown history professor Adam Rothman compared the report to the list, saying it was “nothing but the National Garden of Heroes in prose form, a stiff and lifeless history of America on a pedestal.”

Grossman, the AHA executive director, said: “This is written as if no historical scholarship has been produced in nearly 70 years, so it’s bereft of any professional historical sensibility at all. There are no historians on this commission. Would you take your car to a garage where there’s no mechanic?”

maestrob
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Re: Many Americans Are Officially Giving Up on Democracy

Post by maestrob » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:34 pm

There are no historians on this commission. Would you take your car to a garage where there’s no mechanic?”
:lol:

Excellent reporting as usual by the Post.

What utter rot! :mrgreen: :evil:

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