Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
The attorney general and the defense minister, tied to separate scandals, will stay in the government, Prime Minister Scott Morrison said.
By Damien Cave
March 29, 2021
Updated 7:26 a.m. ET
SYDNEY, Australia — Seeking to address rising anger over accusations of rape and misogyny against members of his government, Prime Minister Scott Morrison of Australia reshuffled his cabinet on Monday, demoting two ministers tied to separate scandals, but keeping them in senior positions.
Defense Minister Linda Reynolds will become the minister for government services, Mr. Morrison said. Attorney General Christian Porter will give up that role while continuing to serve in the cabinet as the minister for science, industry and technology.
Mr. Morrison also announced a new task force on women’s equality, safety, economic security, health and well-being, while adding several women to the cabinet. They include Michaelia Cash, who will become attorney general, and Karen Andrews, who will become minister for home affairs.
“These changes will shake up what needs to be shaken up,” Mr. Morrison said, adding that having more women in the cabinet would bring “a fresh lens” to the government’s challenges.
The widely expected reshuffle comes more than a month after a former staff member in Ms. Reynolds’s office, Brittany Higgins, accused a more senior colleague of raping her in Parliament House in 2019, and three weeks after Mr. Porter was accused of committing rape when he was a teenager.
Mr. Porter has denied the accusation against him and resisted calls for an independent inquiry. Ms. Reynolds has apologized to Ms. Higgins for speaking with her about the alleged assault in the same room where it was said to have occurred, as well as for calling Ms. Higgins a “lying cow” after she went public with her accusations.
The reassignments are unlikely to tamp down the public outrage that has surged in recent weeks, after years in which complaints about Australia’s brutal culture of misogyny in politics were ignored or actively suppressed by the two major parties.
Susan Harris Rimmer, a law professor at Griffith University, called the reshuffle “too little, too partial, too late.”
“It won’t restore the confidence of female voters,” she said.
Mr. Morrison’s response to criticism about sexism in politics has been widely condemned as weak and tone-deaf. He announced the new cabinet on Monday with Marise Payne, the foreign minister and minister for women, who he said would join him in leading the new task force for women. But at one point, he also referred to Ms. Payne as “effectively the prime minister for women” who would be the main point person for “my female ministers.”
To critics, the description sounded patronizing and only inflamed the crisis over gender dynamics in Australian politics, which one journalist has described as putting Mr. Morrison’s government in a “death spiral.”
The intense public scrutiny of Parliament began six weeks ago after Ms. Higgins came forward. Mr. Morrison initially resisted commenting. He later apologized, while suggesting that it had taken a chat with his wife — who he said had asked, “What if it was one of your daughters?” — to get him to do so.
When the accusations about Mr. Porter surfaced in a long letter by the alleged victim, made public after she died by suicide, Mr. Morrison admitted he had not read it. After the police dropped a criminal case against Mr. Porter, citing insufficient evidence from an incident alleged to have occurred 33 years ago, Mr. Morrison said the attorney general was still fit for the highest legal office in the country, despite the swirl of distrust surrounding him.
On March 4, when thousands of women protested sexual assault and sexism outside Parliament, Mr. Morrison refused to attend the rally. He later declared it a “triumph of democracy” that demonstrators had been able to gather without being “met with bullets” — a comment that only added more fuel to the public anger.
In recent days, Mr. Morrison finally seemed to recognize the severity of the problem his government was facing, but only after videos and photographs surfaced of male Liberal Party staffers masturbating onto the desks of female members of Parliament.
“I am shocked, and I am disgusted. It is shameful,” he said last Tuesday.
“I acknowledge that many Australians, especially women, believe that I have not heard them,” Mr. Morrison added. “That greatly distresses me.”
But to many, a cabinet reshuffle should be only the first step in a broader response.
“The leadership position the prime minister has taken is welcome,” said Anne Webster, a member of Parliament with the National Party who filed a formal complaint against a colleague last week over a recent case of sexual harassment. “Everyone is on alert now and wondering: Where are we going from here?”
Jo Dyer, a friend of the woman who accused Mr. Porter, said she and many others would continue to push for an independent inquiry into the rape accusation, noting that changing Mr. Porter’s role did not address the larger question of whether he was fit for public office.
On Monday, Mr. Morrison explained that Mr. Porter was being moved in part to address a legal technicality — a perceived conflict of interest.
As attorney general, Mr. Porter would have been responsible for nominating judges to the federal court. He has personally brought a case before that same court, a defamation claim against the Australian Broadcasting Corporation over its coverage of the rape accusation.
The prime minister said he had retained Mr. Porter in the cabinet because he was “a very capable minister.”
In a statement, Mr. Porter said he did not regret filing the defamation lawsuit, and would give his new portfolio “all the energy and commitment I have.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/29/worl ... rld%20News
By Damien Cave
March 29, 2021
Updated 7:26 a.m. ET
SYDNEY, Australia — Seeking to address rising anger over accusations of rape and misogyny against members of his government, Prime Minister Scott Morrison of Australia reshuffled his cabinet on Monday, demoting two ministers tied to separate scandals, but keeping them in senior positions.
Defense Minister Linda Reynolds will become the minister for government services, Mr. Morrison said. Attorney General Christian Porter will give up that role while continuing to serve in the cabinet as the minister for science, industry and technology.
Mr. Morrison also announced a new task force on women’s equality, safety, economic security, health and well-being, while adding several women to the cabinet. They include Michaelia Cash, who will become attorney general, and Karen Andrews, who will become minister for home affairs.
“These changes will shake up what needs to be shaken up,” Mr. Morrison said, adding that having more women in the cabinet would bring “a fresh lens” to the government’s challenges.
The widely expected reshuffle comes more than a month after a former staff member in Ms. Reynolds’s office, Brittany Higgins, accused a more senior colleague of raping her in Parliament House in 2019, and three weeks after Mr. Porter was accused of committing rape when he was a teenager.
Mr. Porter has denied the accusation against him and resisted calls for an independent inquiry. Ms. Reynolds has apologized to Ms. Higgins for speaking with her about the alleged assault in the same room where it was said to have occurred, as well as for calling Ms. Higgins a “lying cow” after she went public with her accusations.
The reassignments are unlikely to tamp down the public outrage that has surged in recent weeks, after years in which complaints about Australia’s brutal culture of misogyny in politics were ignored or actively suppressed by the two major parties.
Susan Harris Rimmer, a law professor at Griffith University, called the reshuffle “too little, too partial, too late.”
“It won’t restore the confidence of female voters,” she said.
Mr. Morrison’s response to criticism about sexism in politics has been widely condemned as weak and tone-deaf. He announced the new cabinet on Monday with Marise Payne, the foreign minister and minister for women, who he said would join him in leading the new task force for women. But at one point, he also referred to Ms. Payne as “effectively the prime minister for women” who would be the main point person for “my female ministers.”
To critics, the description sounded patronizing and only inflamed the crisis over gender dynamics in Australian politics, which one journalist has described as putting Mr. Morrison’s government in a “death spiral.”
The intense public scrutiny of Parliament began six weeks ago after Ms. Higgins came forward. Mr. Morrison initially resisted commenting. He later apologized, while suggesting that it had taken a chat with his wife — who he said had asked, “What if it was one of your daughters?” — to get him to do so.
When the accusations about Mr. Porter surfaced in a long letter by the alleged victim, made public after she died by suicide, Mr. Morrison admitted he had not read it. After the police dropped a criminal case against Mr. Porter, citing insufficient evidence from an incident alleged to have occurred 33 years ago, Mr. Morrison said the attorney general was still fit for the highest legal office in the country, despite the swirl of distrust surrounding him.
On March 4, when thousands of women protested sexual assault and sexism outside Parliament, Mr. Morrison refused to attend the rally. He later declared it a “triumph of democracy” that demonstrators had been able to gather without being “met with bullets” — a comment that only added more fuel to the public anger.
In recent days, Mr. Morrison finally seemed to recognize the severity of the problem his government was facing, but only after videos and photographs surfaced of male Liberal Party staffers masturbating onto the desks of female members of Parliament.
“I am shocked, and I am disgusted. It is shameful,” he said last Tuesday.
“I acknowledge that many Australians, especially women, believe that I have not heard them,” Mr. Morrison added. “That greatly distresses me.”
But to many, a cabinet reshuffle should be only the first step in a broader response.
“The leadership position the prime minister has taken is welcome,” said Anne Webster, a member of Parliament with the National Party who filed a formal complaint against a colleague last week over a recent case of sexual harassment. “Everyone is on alert now and wondering: Where are we going from here?”
Jo Dyer, a friend of the woman who accused Mr. Porter, said she and many others would continue to push for an independent inquiry into the rape accusation, noting that changing Mr. Porter’s role did not address the larger question of whether he was fit for public office.
On Monday, Mr. Morrison explained that Mr. Porter was being moved in part to address a legal technicality — a perceived conflict of interest.
As attorney general, Mr. Porter would have been responsible for nominating judges to the federal court. He has personally brought a case before that same court, a defamation claim against the Australian Broadcasting Corporation over its coverage of the rape accusation.
The prime minister said he had retained Mr. Porter in the cabinet because he was “a very capable minister.”
In a statement, Mr. Porter said he did not regret filing the defamation lawsuit, and would give his new portfolio “all the energy and commitment I have.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/29/worl ... rld%20News
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
There's a very strong link between this behaviour and the reader comment I just posted on "Allen and Farrow".
I'd normally have plenty to say about this particular matter but for family reasons I'm unwilling and unable to do so. Suffice it to say, the mob rules once again and that is my real ongoing fear and concern. It ought to be everybody's.
I'd normally have plenty to say about this particular matter but for family reasons I'm unwilling and unable to do so. Suffice it to say, the mob rules once again and that is my real ongoing fear and concern. It ought to be everybody's.
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
It would seem the “mob” would be those disgusting Liberal male staffers ,presumably picked by their Liberal keepers from among the Liberal Party’s best and brightest.
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
The same mob who have chased away Gov. Cuomo and hounded and hunted - without evidence or trial - other people. The mob which cancels and trashes reputations for those who disagree. The mob which publicly tried to eviscerate Brett Kavanaugh. Spectacular FAIL. The mobs which trashed the streets of the USA last year, destroying peoples' businesses and livelihoods. I could go on, but you get the picture.
And there are plenty of female 'staffers' in that mix, for your inconvenient information. You see, evidence is never required when you have a mob. Just feeling, vengeance and hand-wringing. We're seeing an abundance of that everywhere these days. And a strange rise in Puritanism which is a perversion of religious 'puritanism' and based solely on identity politics.
The modern world largely sickens us, but we still have the cash and they the identity politics!!
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Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
CECILY. Uncle Jack is sending you to Australia.
ALGERNON. Australia! I'd sooner die.
—Oscar Wilde, The Importance of Being Earnest
Australian Institute of International Affairs
Inside the Toxic Sexist Culture of Australia’s Political Bubble
20 NOV 2020
By Dr. Blair Williams
ANALYSIS
Australia has yet again made international headlines for the toxic sexist culture of its federal parliament. The recent ABC Four Corners episode, Inside The Canberra Bubble, exposed a history of sexism and inappropriate behaviour by senior members of the coalition government.
Bonk bans and manterruptions
The Inside The Canberra Bubble investigation uncovered just how deep-seated this culture is in Australian Parliament. Two senior Liberal cabinet ministers, Attorney General Christian Porter and Infrastructure Minister Alan Tudge, have been accused of sexual misconduct. Both men wielded their power and influence for personal benefit, belittling and degrading women colleagues and initiating affairs with their staffers. Whistleblower Rachelle Miller, a former Liberal staffer who worked for Tudge from 2010-2018, has spoken publicly of their affair and the extent of his degrading behaviour. Miller recalls that Tudge often belittled and demeaned her at work, leaving her in tears, and that his behaviour made her “constantly afraid of losing [her] job.” While the affair was seen as mutual, its lingering impact raises questions about whether such intimate relationships between a boss and employee can ever truly be consensual considering their significant imbalance of power.
These doubts have resurfaced with the revelation that then-Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull warned Porter about his own inappropriate behaviour with a young staffer. The Four Corners investigation has shown that Porter’s sexist conduct was part of a history of misogynistic behaviour dating back to his private school days. Barrister Kathleen Foley, who has known Porter for more than 20 years, called his behaviour “deeply sexist and actually misogynist,” consistently sidelining and undermining women colleagues, scrutinising their appearance, and even making sexualised comments about former students. This kind of behaviour has only continued in Canberra.
In fact, as the ABC investigation revealed, Turnbull’s 2018 so-called “bonk ban” – prohibiting ministers from engaging in sexual relationships with staffers – was formulated with Porter and Tudge in mind, as well as then-Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce, who made headlines when his affair and child with a former media adviser was exposed. Yet neither Porter, Tudge, nor Joyce have experienced any real consequences for abusing their power. Morrison won’t take further action on the matter as the breaches of ministerial code of conduct did not happen on his watch.
Morrison’s recent behaviour only reaffirms where his allegiances lie. Rather than support Ruston or even give her the podium, he was more concerned with the continued use of the term “bonk ban,” arguing that it “dismisses the seriousness” of an issue he allegedly takes “very seriously.” Despite the apparent sincerity, his egregious “manterruption” quickly made international headlines.
History of sexism in Australian politics
There is a history of such behaviour in Australian politics, especially among the men of the coalition. It remained hidden for decades, until the curtain was slowly pulled aside by women politicians revealing the sexist culture they’ve had to endure. In 2018, many of these women in the Liberal party broke rank to publicly call out this toxic culture. Julia Banks notably left to join the crossbench, blaming the “scourge of cultural and gender bias, bullying and intimidation” which “women have suffered in silence for too long.” These allegations were confirmed by fellow Liberals, such as then-Deputy Leader Julie Bishop and then-Minister for Women Kelly O’Dwyer, demonstrating that the Liberal “woman problem” was only getting worse.
The most notorious case of sexism in Australian politics is undoubtedly the treatment that Australia’s first woman prime minister, Julia Gillard, received from both sides of the political spectrum and the media. Throughout her prime ministerial term, Gillard faced accusations of violent disloyalty to her predecessor Kevin Rudd, was regularly referred to as “JuLiar” by Opposition Leader Tony Abbott and the press, and was demonised for being unmarried and childfree. At a Liberal National Party fundraiser, a dish on the menu was described as “Julia Gillard Kentucky Fried Quail – small breasts, huge thighs and a big red box.” In 2012, when Abbott used a comment made by shock jock Alan Jones that Gillard’s father “died of shame” to criticise the current government, Gillard famously unleashed her anger at the sexist culture she had had to endure for years with her impromptu “Misogyny Speech.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCNuPcf8L00
ALGERNON. Australia! I'd sooner die.
—Oscar Wilde, The Importance of Being Earnest
Australian Institute of International Affairs
Inside the Toxic Sexist Culture of Australia’s Political Bubble
20 NOV 2020
By Dr. Blair Williams
ANALYSIS
Australia has yet again made international headlines for the toxic sexist culture of its federal parliament. The recent ABC Four Corners episode, Inside The Canberra Bubble, exposed a history of sexism and inappropriate behaviour by senior members of the coalition government.
Just days after the episode aired, Prime Minister Scott Morrison cut off female colleague Anne Ruston before she had a chance to respond to a question about what it’s like to be a woman in Parliament, ranting about the particular terminology used by the journalist. This incident, and the broader culture of sexism that it reflects, won’t significantly impact Australia’s international standing – especially in comparison to, say, its inaction on climate change and treatment of refugees – but they do conform to a historical trend of misogyny in Australian politics and reinforce blokey political stereotypes.At a Liberal National Party fundraiser, a dish on the menu was described as “Julia Gillard Kentucky Fried Quail – small breasts, huge thighs and a big red box.”
Bonk bans and manterruptions
The Inside The Canberra Bubble investigation uncovered just how deep-seated this culture is in Australian Parliament. Two senior Liberal cabinet ministers, Attorney General Christian Porter and Infrastructure Minister Alan Tudge, have been accused of sexual misconduct. Both men wielded their power and influence for personal benefit, belittling and degrading women colleagues and initiating affairs with their staffers. Whistleblower Rachelle Miller, a former Liberal staffer who worked for Tudge from 2010-2018, has spoken publicly of their affair and the extent of his degrading behaviour. Miller recalls that Tudge often belittled and demeaned her at work, leaving her in tears, and that his behaviour made her “constantly afraid of losing [her] job.” While the affair was seen as mutual, its lingering impact raises questions about whether such intimate relationships between a boss and employee can ever truly be consensual considering their significant imbalance of power.
These doubts have resurfaced with the revelation that then-Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull warned Porter about his own inappropriate behaviour with a young staffer. The Four Corners investigation has shown that Porter’s sexist conduct was part of a history of misogynistic behaviour dating back to his private school days. Barrister Kathleen Foley, who has known Porter for more than 20 years, called his behaviour “deeply sexist and actually misogynist,” consistently sidelining and undermining women colleagues, scrutinising their appearance, and even making sexualised comments about former students. This kind of behaviour has only continued in Canberra.
In fact, as the ABC investigation revealed, Turnbull’s 2018 so-called “bonk ban” – prohibiting ministers from engaging in sexual relationships with staffers – was formulated with Porter and Tudge in mind, as well as then-Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce, who made headlines when his affair and child with a former media adviser was exposed. Yet neither Porter, Tudge, nor Joyce have experienced any real consequences for abusing their power. Morrison won’t take further action on the matter as the breaches of ministerial code of conduct did not happen on his watch.
On the other hand, the careers of those women who were either involved or provided statements to Four Corners have already been damaged. Miller was made redundant after rumours began circulating about her affair with Tudge, and there are now fears she might also lose her new job after her media appearance. Days after the episode aired, Foley lost her bid for re-election to the Victorian Bar Council.NYT wrote:Australia [is] a step or 10 behind … many of its developed peers ... government institutions [are] run like gentleman’s clubs of yesteryear.
Morrison’s recent behaviour only reaffirms where his allegiances lie. Rather than support Ruston or even give her the podium, he was more concerned with the continued use of the term “bonk ban,” arguing that it “dismisses the seriousness” of an issue he allegedly takes “very seriously.” Despite the apparent sincerity, his egregious “manterruption” quickly made international headlines.
History of sexism in Australian politics
There is a history of such behaviour in Australian politics, especially among the men of the coalition. It remained hidden for decades, until the curtain was slowly pulled aside by women politicians revealing the sexist culture they’ve had to endure. In 2018, many of these women in the Liberal party broke rank to publicly call out this toxic culture. Julia Banks notably left to join the crossbench, blaming the “scourge of cultural and gender bias, bullying and intimidation” which “women have suffered in silence for too long.” These allegations were confirmed by fellow Liberals, such as then-Deputy Leader Julie Bishop and then-Minister for Women Kelly O’Dwyer, demonstrating that the Liberal “woman problem” was only getting worse.
Yet this culture permeates all of Parliament, not just the coalition. Only months prior to Banks’ public condemnation, Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young accused, and successfully sued, Liberal Democrat Senator David Leyonhjelm for “slut shaming” her in the Senate. In a debate of a bill regarding pepper spray and tasers for women’s self-defence, Hanson-Young argued that women would not need these protection devices if men didn’t rape them, to which Leyonhjelm responded by telling her to “stop shagging men.” Hanson-Young has since written about the toxic workplace environment for women in Parliament in En Garde , noting the constant barrage of “sexist slurs and innuendo.”... this adds to Australia’s international image as a blokey nation of larrikins ...
The most notorious case of sexism in Australian politics is undoubtedly the treatment that Australia’s first woman prime minister, Julia Gillard, received from both sides of the political spectrum and the media. Throughout her prime ministerial term, Gillard faced accusations of violent disloyalty to her predecessor Kevin Rudd, was regularly referred to as “JuLiar” by Opposition Leader Tony Abbott and the press, and was demonised for being unmarried and childfree. At a Liberal National Party fundraiser, a dish on the menu was described as “Julia Gillard Kentucky Fried Quail – small breasts, huge thighs and a big red box.” In 2012, when Abbott used a comment made by shock jock Alan Jones that Gillard’s father “died of shame” to criticise the current government, Gillard famously unleashed her anger at the sexist culture she had had to endure for years with her impromptu “Misogyny Speech.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCNuPcf8L00
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
Thanks for finding that, Joe: most edifying!
I'm sad to say that this kind of attitude among some American voters might well have contributed to Hillary Clinton's loss in 2016. It certainly didn't help. Neither did the "Hillary is evil" meme promulgated by the bizarre conspiracy machine on the Right that I heard from several friends.
A recent survey that I read revealed that 97% of women interviewed revealed that sexual violence of some kind had happened to them during their lives, from groping to rape and, yes, molestation as a child.
My deepest hope is that by finally discussing this topic openly, awareness can be raised and this cruel behavior will eventually fade away.
This is not at all a political issue, as politicians of both liberal and conservative persuasions have indulged, as have powerful musicians, business leaders, etc.
It is a human issue, and we humans must wake up and change.
I'm sad to say that this kind of attitude among some American voters might well have contributed to Hillary Clinton's loss in 2016. It certainly didn't help. Neither did the "Hillary is evil" meme promulgated by the bizarre conspiracy machine on the Right that I heard from several friends.
A recent survey that I read revealed that 97% of women interviewed revealed that sexual violence of some kind had happened to them during their lives, from groping to rape and, yes, molestation as a child.
My deepest hope is that by finally discussing this topic openly, awareness can be raised and this cruel behavior will eventually fade away.
This is not at all a political issue, as politicians of both liberal and conservative persuasions have indulged, as have powerful musicians, business leaders, etc.
It is a human issue, and we humans must wake up and change.
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Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
Your point is well taken, but by comparison the Australian Right makes America’s Right sound like suffragettes. Australia’s JOLP (Jerk-Off Liberal Party) has been the source of much comment of late, not all of which has been in a serious vein.maestrob wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:31 amI'm sad to say that this kind of attitude among some American voters might well have contributed to Hillary Clinton's loss in 2016. It certainly didn't help. Neither did the "Hillary is evil" meme promulgated by the bizarre conspiracy machine on the Right that I heard from several friends.
Last edited by jserraglio on Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
Quite so!jserraglio wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:52 amYour point is well taken, but by comparison the Australian Right makes America’s Right sound like suffragettes. Australia’s JOLP (Jerk-Off Liberal Party) has been the source of much comment of late, not all of which has been in a serious vein.maestrob wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:31 amI'm sad to say that this kind of attitude among some American voters might well have contributed to Hillary Clinton's loss in 2016. It certainly didn't help. Neither did the "Hillary is evil" meme promulgated by the bizarre conspiracy machine on the Right that I heard from several friends.
It amazes me that, even here, they have a defender. I wonder if troglodytes are herd animals?
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Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
Herd behavior is of necessity social. In Australia, by contrast, the place name “Coober Pedy” comes from the local Aboriginal kupa-piti, which means “whitefellas’ hole”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coober_Pedy
Last edited by jserraglio on Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
The highway that leads into Philadelphia's center city area (built mostly during the Eisenhower era) is known officially as the Schuykill Expressway. It parallels the Schuykill River, which was named after a certain Dutch explorer, IIRC. It is popularly known as the "Surekill Distressway."jserraglio wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:39 amHerding requires social behavior. In Australia, the place name “Coober Pedy” comes from the local Aboriginal term kupa-piti, which means “whitefellas’ hole”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coober_Pedy
Names can indeed be a source of delight, can't they?
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
My husband's best friend has a sister-in-law who was in our Senate, circa 25 years ago. She was something of a high profile and had a raging affair with a high-ranking Labor minister, entirely of her own choice. Neither of these people belonged to the side of politics of the current government. Today she would have been regarded as having been 'bullied' into the affair!! That's the difference between then and now.
More of the mob doing what they do best: bullying, harassing, canceling, defaming.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/03/3 ... cowardice/
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
Judging by the threads in the Pub and the relentless hatred and hysteria towards those who are successful I'd say the evidence is in the affirmative.maestrob wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:22 amQuite so!jserraglio wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:52 amYour point is well taken, but by comparison the Australian Right makes America’s Right sound like suffragettes. Australia’s JOLP (Jerk-Off Liberal Party) has been the source of much comment of late, not all of which has been in a serious vein.maestrob wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:31 amI'm sad to say that this kind of attitude among some American voters might well have contributed to Hillary Clinton's loss in 2016. It certainly didn't help. Neither did the "Hillary is evil" meme promulgated by the bizarre conspiracy machine on the Right that I heard from several friends.
It amazes me that, even here, they have a defender. I wonder if troglodytes are herd animals?
Keep up with the prurience, innuendo, smear and viciousness boys!! That way you'll feel better about 'toxic masculinity'.
Last edited by Belle on Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
Naive comment. He never had any intention of leaving his wife and that's usually when women become nasty in an affair. But when there simply no victimhood to be found that needs to be remedied!!jserraglio wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:18 pmIF she were bullied into the affair. That’s the difference between then and now.
Most of you seem to have little or no understanding about female behaviour outside the prism of victimhood. Subscribing to the world view of the aggrieved Left has made you this way; unable to think multi-dimensionally and more intelligently about these matters.
A little, recent anecdote which has nothing to do with this specific issue of the thread. One of my sons, a single man again and over 40, recently took a woman out and as they were driving along in the car she said to him, out of the blue, "you want to blindfold me, tie me up and f**k me don't you!". My son pulled the car up straight away and said "get out". His friends tell similar stories, but not nearly so graphic. Like the women who hit on men in the workplace on a regular basis; our neighbour was in here last night helping my husband fix the ride-on lawn-mower. He told us about the women in his workplace who often 'hit' upon the male staff members. The girls are working really hard to be as 'bad' as men these days, thanks to the rise of permissive feminism. And, for your further edification, "Tinder" is populated by mostly married women.
When you're out in the real world you find that life is very different from that posted in the New York Times and the Washington Post.
Last edited by Belle on Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:35 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
The vast documentary evidence is in against you, I'm afraid, in this section of CMG.
Again, I remind you that 'accusations' are not court-determined guilt - only if you're part of the mob. Perhaps you think the rule of law doesn't apply; I mean, it's so yesterday.
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Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
jserraglio wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:32 pmVictimhood. A buzzword wielded by those on the Right who themselves feel victimized.
Absolutely priceless!!!
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Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
There is no presumption of innocence in the court of public opinion, only in a court of law.
Last edited by jserraglio on Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
And this is the behaviour of the animal kingdom, on steroids, since opinion now destroys people without the nuisance factor of evidence. Ergo, the mob. Back to the days of the old west and hanging the horse thief without the necessity of a trial.jserraglio wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:36 pmThere is no presumption of innocence in the court of public opinion, only in a court of law.
B-b-but when it's one of your own; all bets are off!!!
You want to see the lynch mob in action? Google "The Chamberlain case".
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Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
There is no presumption of innocence for public officials in the court of public opinion, only in a court of law. For precisely that reason, as I’ve said many times before, Andrew Cuomo should resign. He stands credibly accused by eight individuals he had sway over.
Last edited by jserraglio on Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
Obviously all Australians know who you're talking about, Belle - Gareth Evans (long-time Australian foreign minister) and Cheryl Kernot. Was she not leader of her (rather minor) party at the time? No one then or now suggested she was bullied. You are verging on the hysterical.Belle wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:12 pmMy husband's best friend has a sister-in-law who was in our Senate, circa 25 years ago. She was something of a high profile and had a raging affair with a high-ranking Labor minister, entirely of her own choice. Neither of these people belonged to the side of politics of the current government. Today she would have been regarded as having been 'bullied' into the affair!! That's the difference between then and now.
More of the mob doing what they do best: bullying, harassing, canceling, defaming.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/03/3 ... cowardice/
Re Brendan O'Neill on Batley, I'd already read that. The situation seems appalling. I'm on your side on this one.
Last edited by barney on Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
You have this weird obsession with "success", measured purely in financial terms, which I find hard to understand. What is the source of your "success", Belle? You've told us that you dabbled at the ABC for a few years then got married. I think you might also have mentioned you were a teacher, but that could be memory playing tricks on me. I don't imagine you made your riches yourself, though I am perfectly happy to be corrected. You might, perhaps, have run a business while bringing up your children.Belle wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:17 pmJudging by the threads in the Pub and the relentless hatred and hysteria towards those who are successful I'd say the evidence is in the affirmative.maestrob wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:22 amQuite so!jserraglio wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:52 amYour point is well taken, but by comparison the Australian Right makes America’s Right sound like suffragettes. Australia’s JOLP (Jerk-Off Liberal Party) has been the source of much comment of late, not all of which has been in a serious vein.maestrob wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:31 amI'm sad to say that this kind of attitude among some American voters might well have contributed to Hillary Clinton's loss in 2016. It certainly didn't help. Neither did the "Hillary is evil" meme promulgated by the bizarre conspiracy machine on the Right that I heard from several friends.
It amazes me that, even here, they have a defender. I wonder if troglodytes are herd animals?
Keep up with the prurience, innuendo, smear and viciousness boys!! That way you'll feel better about 'toxic masculinity'.
Perhaps you married it, perhaps you inherited it, but (if so) either way it's hardly your "success". And you are proud of your hard-working and financially successful sons - even boasting, impossibly, that they earn so much that they pay more than 50% of their income in tax. This is impossible since the highest tax rate in Australia is 45% and it kicks in after $180,000. It's good to be proud of your children and I certainly don't criticise that. But you also complain of their failed marriages, so by another token that I consider pretty important they are not successes. Being a husband and father matters too. Of course I know nothing of their circumstances; I am only going on what you have written.
None of this is my business, except to the extent that you have chosen to write about it, but I put to you that making money is not the only thing that matters. It's certainly never motivated me, so long as I and my family are comfortable. I am sure you are much richer than I am, and, as this is so obvously hugely important to you, I congratulate you and hope it makes you happy.
I would ask you to spell out how we show relentless hatred and hysteria to those who are successful. I don't see it myself - unless you are saying we should all admire Trump because he was financially "successful" (and the truth of that has yet to emerge).
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
It's a fair question that you've asked and I'm going to take the trouble to provide an honest answer.
I speak on behalf of those who've enjoyed success, not necessarily myself. I'm a minor player in that respect. My children grew up to believe in effort and reward and the notion that nobody was ever going to pay their way. I must say that hasn't been an unqualified success, but some of them are achieving remarkable things. And making money. In short, there's nothing in it for them to adopt political activism.
The co-called progressive Left's ideological target was and remains the successful and affluent cohort and almost everything about the ideology which they see as facilitating this. I don't speak about the centre left; people like those who once inhabited the Labor Party or whom I lived amongst when we were farming; conservative in values, a large number christians and hard-working, for the most. Joel Fitzgibbon's electorate, which he has only recently decided he needs to keep on side.
I refer to the hard/progressive urban left which is so responsible for a lot of our social division, disruption and dysfunction. The parsing of people into ever diminishing grievance groups; labelling of males as 'toxic' while using refulgences to describe women who 'roar'; active hatred and dislike of private schooling; loathing the church and all it stands for; using propaganda to project a world view which seldom represents the truth; the culture which cancels and punishes dissent; climate hysteria which has a strong political dimension and has morphed into the new secular religion. The progressive (what a joke!) Left dislikes institutionalized religion as this provides an existential threat to its own ideologies. I have two sisters who are of the hard Green/Left and I've had to cut ties with them permanently, so upsetting do I find their ideologies. You know, the bleeding heart and compassionate mien, and in the spare time shutting down developments which they find 'inconvenient' in and around them. Good people could have used the many jobs which would have ensued from those developments, but erstwhile public servants don't care about private industry for the most, sneering at its minimized ideological 'projects' compared to, say, the 'writers' festival' set.
We have mainstream news outlets in Australia who promulgate these ideologies; instead of discussing facts and discerning 'truths' and using 'balance' they use emotion, contempt and other pejorative criteria to promote an active agenda of social justice. This is what Pravda did so well and so consistently. There is only one 'truth' and that's theirs. Having infiltrated the institutions so well and now the boardrooms and corporate culture in Australia, the hard Left is feeling empowered. Electorally things are far less certain or stable.
Orwell himself mused in the 1930s that behind the Left is a culture formulated on envy and contempt ("The Road to Wigan Pier"). Dr. Sowell says the same thing, as do many of the authors I've read including Douglas Murray, Theodore Dalrymple (yes, he can go over the top!) and Prof. Niall Ferguson and others. That the ideology, thinly disguised as compassion, is really one of resentment is writ large - sometimes between the lines. Dr. Jordan Peterson said about 3 years ago, "these are the last people you'd want in your corner" and he knows what it's like to be on the pointy end of the hard Left.
Then there's the dogma of race; no alternate viewpoint is tolerated. Let's ask Ayaan Hirsi Aly about FGM and feminists willing to discuss that. She is shut down every time because it doesn't feed into the minority playbook of vulnerability and uniqueness. It's a nonsense.
Everything is all about who gets what when you drill right down. Direct your hatreds, if you must, at the depredations which visit all/most of us during our lives; war, illness, violence, etc. Meantime, as time goes on, I increasingly identify with ordinary Australians and their non-nonsense approach to life; they're the 'hi-viz' set who are building my home and who are friendly, direct and hardworking. These same people are OFTEN generous beyond their means.
Most progressive left ideology is silly and shallow on one level and dangerous and threatening on another. History has shown time and again what happens when you have ideological regimes; you just run out of body bags.
That the American people voted for a man as patently unsuitable for the Presidency as Donald Trump should have given the hard left pause; instead it doubled down, ensuring a GOP Presidency with a disrupter next time around.
None of this means the system we have had historically is perfect; the 'country club' which was once the GOP has gone by its use-by date but the champion of the working class, the Democrats, have grown elite, urbanized, fat and entirely vainglorious as has the rest of the hard left. The first generation of the working classes to go through universities have come out of those institutions - for the most - ideological zealots. It's as if their parents said to them, "you go to university and tell them they can't treat us like that".
And this is precisely what they've done and what they're still doing.
I speak on behalf of those who've enjoyed success, not necessarily myself. I'm a minor player in that respect. My children grew up to believe in effort and reward and the notion that nobody was ever going to pay their way. I must say that hasn't been an unqualified success, but some of them are achieving remarkable things. And making money. In short, there's nothing in it for them to adopt political activism.
The co-called progressive Left's ideological target was and remains the successful and affluent cohort and almost everything about the ideology which they see as facilitating this. I don't speak about the centre left; people like those who once inhabited the Labor Party or whom I lived amongst when we were farming; conservative in values, a large number christians and hard-working, for the most. Joel Fitzgibbon's electorate, which he has only recently decided he needs to keep on side.
I refer to the hard/progressive urban left which is so responsible for a lot of our social division, disruption and dysfunction. The parsing of people into ever diminishing grievance groups; labelling of males as 'toxic' while using refulgences to describe women who 'roar'; active hatred and dislike of private schooling; loathing the church and all it stands for; using propaganda to project a world view which seldom represents the truth; the culture which cancels and punishes dissent; climate hysteria which has a strong political dimension and has morphed into the new secular religion. The progressive (what a joke!) Left dislikes institutionalized religion as this provides an existential threat to its own ideologies. I have two sisters who are of the hard Green/Left and I've had to cut ties with them permanently, so upsetting do I find their ideologies. You know, the bleeding heart and compassionate mien, and in the spare time shutting down developments which they find 'inconvenient' in and around them. Good people could have used the many jobs which would have ensued from those developments, but erstwhile public servants don't care about private industry for the most, sneering at its minimized ideological 'projects' compared to, say, the 'writers' festival' set.
We have mainstream news outlets in Australia who promulgate these ideologies; instead of discussing facts and discerning 'truths' and using 'balance' they use emotion, contempt and other pejorative criteria to promote an active agenda of social justice. This is what Pravda did so well and so consistently. There is only one 'truth' and that's theirs. Having infiltrated the institutions so well and now the boardrooms and corporate culture in Australia, the hard Left is feeling empowered. Electorally things are far less certain or stable.
Orwell himself mused in the 1930s that behind the Left is a culture formulated on envy and contempt ("The Road to Wigan Pier"). Dr. Sowell says the same thing, as do many of the authors I've read including Douglas Murray, Theodore Dalrymple (yes, he can go over the top!) and Prof. Niall Ferguson and others. That the ideology, thinly disguised as compassion, is really one of resentment is writ large - sometimes between the lines. Dr. Jordan Peterson said about 3 years ago, "these are the last people you'd want in your corner" and he knows what it's like to be on the pointy end of the hard Left.
Then there's the dogma of race; no alternate viewpoint is tolerated. Let's ask Ayaan Hirsi Aly about FGM and feminists willing to discuss that. She is shut down every time because it doesn't feed into the minority playbook of vulnerability and uniqueness. It's a nonsense.
Everything is all about who gets what when you drill right down. Direct your hatreds, if you must, at the depredations which visit all/most of us during our lives; war, illness, violence, etc. Meantime, as time goes on, I increasingly identify with ordinary Australians and their non-nonsense approach to life; they're the 'hi-viz' set who are building my home and who are friendly, direct and hardworking. These same people are OFTEN generous beyond their means.
Most progressive left ideology is silly and shallow on one level and dangerous and threatening on another. History has shown time and again what happens when you have ideological regimes; you just run out of body bags.
That the American people voted for a man as patently unsuitable for the Presidency as Donald Trump should have given the hard left pause; instead it doubled down, ensuring a GOP Presidency with a disrupter next time around.
None of this means the system we have had historically is perfect; the 'country club' which was once the GOP has gone by its use-by date but the champion of the working class, the Democrats, have grown elite, urbanized, fat and entirely vainglorious as has the rest of the hard left. The first generation of the working classes to go through universities have come out of those institutions - for the most - ideological zealots. It's as if their parents said to them, "you go to university and tell them they can't treat us like that".
And this is precisely what they've done and what they're still doing.
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
I deliberately didn't name the woman!! I was referring to the personal choice to enter an affair now being airbrushed; it seems all women these days are just 'bullied' and 'victims' everywhere and in every workplace if they are in a relationship with 'the boss'. That's the sort of silly thing you'd expect to hear from primary school children. I met my husband in the workplace; he was a middle level manager and I was a cleaner, working a second job each weeknight. Talk about a 'power imbalance'; that's today's parlance.barney wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:55 pmObviously all Australians know who you're talking about, Belle - Gareth Evans (long-time Australian foreign minister) and Cheryl Kernot. Was she not leader of her (rather minor) party at the time? No one then or now suggested she was bullied. You are verging on the hysterical.Belle wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:12 pmMy husband's best friend has a sister-in-law who was in our Senate, circa 25 years ago. She was something of a high profile and had a raging affair with a high-ranking Labor minister, entirely of her own choice. Neither of these people belonged to the side of politics of the current government. Today she would have been regarded as having been 'bullied' into the affair!! That's the difference between then and now.
More of the mob doing what they do best: bullying, harassing, canceling, defaming.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/03/3 ... cowardice/
Re Brendan O'Neill on Batley, I'd already read that. The situation seems appalling. I'm on your side on this one.
All of this bats away that historical adage about power being an aphrodisiac. It goes without saying that sexual harassment should be free from the workplace; there are laws for that. My problem is the ever-shifting sands and bar-lowering which constitutes 'harassment' and the lack of process and evidence required for the accused, and the rise of the mob. The western world over.
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
Fair enough, but naming the woman provides context and allows our American friends to look it up if they want. Mob rule is awful and it is certainly found on the Left but, and this is wht you seem to find hard to acknowledge, equally on the Right. Look at how the Trumpians are trying to punish Republicans who validated the election, or indeed at how they are trying to remake the GOP. Lots of cancel culture there too.Belle wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:10 pmI deliberately didn't name the woman!! I was referring to the personal choice to enter an affair now being airbrushed; it seems all women these days are just 'bullied' and 'victims' everywhere and in every workplace if they are in a relationship with 'the boss'. That's the sort of silly thing you'd expect to hear from primary school children. I met my husband in the workplace; he was a middle level manager and I was a cleaner, working a second job each weeknight. Talk about a 'power imbalance'; that's today's parlance.barney wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:55 pmObviously all Australians know who you're talking about, Belle - Gareth Evans (long-time Australian foreign minister) and Cheryl Kernot. Was she not leader of her (rather minor) party at the time? No one then or now suggested she was bullied. You are verging on the hysterical.Belle wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:12 pmMy husband's best friend has a sister-in-law who was in our Senate, circa 25 years ago. She was something of a high profile and had a raging affair with a high-ranking Labor minister, entirely of her own choice. Neither of these people belonged to the side of politics of the current government. Today she would have been regarded as having been 'bullied' into the affair!! That's the difference between then and now.
More of the mob doing what they do best: bullying, harassing, canceling, defaming.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/03/3 ... cowardice/
Re Brendan O'Neill on Batley, I'd already read that. The situation seems appalling. I'm on your side on this one.
All of this bats away that historical adage about power being an aphrodisiac. It goes without saying that sexual harassment should be free from the workplace; there are laws for that. My problem is the ever-shifting sands and bar-lowering which constitutes 'harassment' and the lack of process and evidence required for the accused, and the rise of the mob. The western world over.
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
Thanks for your full reply, Belle. I'm afraid I haven't time to take it up now, but I will respond later.
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
I don't regard so-called Trumpians as representative of 'the right' or 'conservatives' per se. From what I can tell they've been framed as a cult for the convenience of political attack. What you've described is the argy bargy of modern politics! Most Trump voters, from my readings, have been ordinary Americans disenfranchised by the progressive Left, disregarded as "deplorables" (yes, it's the same here in Australia) and who were/are looking for a warrior to take up the cudgels on their behalf - a fight historically the prerogative of the Democrats, but no more. As many people have said, "the Left got rich" and forgot about the poor. ("A tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury - signifying nothing")
Dave Rubin nails it here. He is a gay man in a SSM, Californian and former long-term Democrat voter and who is still is a 'classical liberal' - which the Democrats most certainly are not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvIXSCHgopw
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
Well, Belle, you have been defending Trump cultists all through his regime. I suspect you may not particularly like them, as you say; you just hate the Left a whole lot more. But it's a bit late to discover that Trump is not a conservative, something I have been saying to you for at least two years.
Re: Amid Accusations of Rape and Misogyny, Australia’s Leader Demotes 2 Ministers
He only plays one on TV!barney wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:22 amWell, Belle, you have been defending Trump cultists all through his regime. I suspect you may not particularly like them, as you say; you just hate the Left a whole lot more. But it's a bit late to discover that Trump is not a conservative, something I have been saying to you for at least two years.
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