Cannon Frustration

Discuss whatever you want here ... movies, books, recipes, politics, beer, wine, TV ... everything except classical music.

Moderators: Lance, Corlyss_D

Post Reply
lennygoran
Posts: 19347
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Cannon Frustration

Post by lennygoran » Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:16 am

I think this is becoming my most serious concern for getting trump. Regards, Len :(

Image

Supporters of former President Donald J. Trump outside a federal courthouse in Fort Pierce, Fla., in February. The case there has been slowed by a logjam of unresolved legal issues and curious procedural requests.Credit...Joe Raedle/Getty Images

Image

Jack Smith, the special counsel, at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport in Arlington, Va., after returning from a hearing with Judge Aileen M. Cannon in Florida last month.Credit...Al Drago for The New York Times

Image

Mr. Smith is asking the judge to rule on Mr. Trump’s argument that bringing the documents to Mar-a-Lago, his Florida estate and private club, meant they became his personal property. Credit...Department of Justice, via Associated Press




Frustrated Prosecutors Ask Trump Documents Judge to Act on Key Claim

The push for a quick decision on one of the former president’s most far-fetched claims is an unusual and risky move in a case Judge Aileen Cannon has allowed to become bogged down.



By Alan Feuer
April 3, 2024, 2:04 a.m. ET

In an open display of frustration, federal prosecutors on Tuesday night told the judge overseeing former President Donald J. Trump’s classified documents case that a “fundamentally flawed” order she had issued was causing delays and asked her to quickly resolve a critical dispute about one of Mr. Trump’s defenses — leaving them time to appeal if needed.

The unusual and risky move by the prosecutors, contained in a 24-page filing, signaled their mounting impatience with the judge, Aileen M. Cannon, who has allowed the case to become bogged down in a logjam of unresolved issues and curious procedural requests. It was the most directly prosecutors have confronted Judge Cannon’s legal reasoning and unhurried pace, which have called into question whether a trial will take place before the election in November even though both sides say they could be ready for one by summer.

In their filing, prosecutors in the office of the special counsel, Jack Smith, all but begged Judge Cannon to move the case along and make a binding decision about one of Mr. Trump’s most brazen claims: that he cannot be prosecuted for having taken home a trove of national security documents after leaving office because he transformed them into his own personal property under a law known as the Presidential Records Act.

The prosecutors derided that assertion as one “not based on any facts,” adding that it was a “justification that was concocted more than a year after” Mr. Trump left the White House.

“It would be pure fiction,” the prosecutors wrote, “to suggest that highly classified documents created by members of the intelligence community and military and presented to the president of the United States during his term in office were ‘purely private.’”

At a hearing last month in Federal District Court in Fort Pierce, Fla., Judge Cannon herself expressed skepticism about Mr. Trump’s assertion, saying it was most likely not enough to dismiss the case before it went to trial.

But then within days, she made a surprising move, ordering the former president’s lawyers and Mr. Smith’s prosecutors to send her proposed jury instructions suggesting she was open to embracing the very same defense.

Her order sought language from both sides meant to help jurors understand how the Presidential Records Act might affect the accusation that Mr. Trump had taken “unauthorized possession” of the documents he removed from the White House. For Mr. Trump to be found guilty under the Espionage Act, the central statute in his indictment, prosecutors will have to prove that the former president was not authorized to hold on to more than 30 highly sensitive documents after he left office.

Judge Cannon’s order for jury instructions was odd on its face because such issues are usually hashed out on the eve of trial, and she has not set a trial date yet.

It was even stranger because by appearing to adopt Mr. Trump’s position on the Presidential Records Act, the judge seemed to be nudging any eventual jurors toward acquitting Mr. Trump or even leaving open the possibility that she herself could acquit the former president near the end of the proceeding by declaring that the government had failed to prove its case.


Hoping to forestall either situation, Mr. Smith’s prosecutors told Judge Cannon in their filing on Tuesday that the Presidential Records Act had nothing to do with the case and that the entire notion of submitting jury instructions based on it rested on a “fundamentally flawed legal premise.”

Instead, they asked her to decide the validity of the Presidential Records Act defense in a different way: by rejecting Mr. Trump’s motion to dismiss the case based on the same argument. That motion has been sitting on her desk for almost six weeks.

The prosecutors want Judge Cannon to take that course of action, because any decision she makes on the motion to dismiss can be challenged in an appeals court. But if the case is allowed to reach the jury, any ruling she might make acquitting Mr. Trump cannot be appealed.

Almost from the moment she was assigned the case in June, Judge Cannon, who was appointed by Mr. Trump in his waning days in office, has handled the proceeding in an unorthodox manner.

She has put off making several legal and logistical decisions. And she has spent time at hearings entertaining a series of unusual arguments by Mr. Trump’s lawyers that many federal judges would have rejected out of hand.

The legal gamesmanship she has encouraged over how to handle Mr. Trump’s Presidential Records Act defense is all the more bizarre because the argument itself is legally dubious.

The act was put in place after the Watergate scandal not to permit presidents to unilaterally designate government documents — let alone those containing sensitive state secrets — as their own personal property, but precisely for the opposite reason: to ensure that most records from a president’s time in office remain in the possession of the government.

Moreover, Mr. Trump’s lawyers have never said he officially designated the documents in question as his own. Rather, they have claimed that the designation can be inferred from the fact that he took them from the White House to Mar-a-Lago, his private club and residence in Florida, rather than sending them, as the government says he should have, to the National Archives.

The prosecutors told Judge Cannon in their filing that they interviewed numerous high-ranking White House officials during their investigation — including chiefs of staff, senior members of the White House Counsel’s Office, a national security adviser and top members of the National Security Council — and no one recalled Mr. Trump saying he had designated the records that ultimately wound up in the case as personal.

“To the contrary,” the prosecutors wrote, “every witness who was asked this question had never heard such a thing.”

The dispute about the Presidential Records Act is only one of the many questions that Judge Cannon has failed to resolve in the past few months. The delays could have a profound effect on the case: If it is pushed past the election and Mr. Trump wins, he could order his attorney general to simply dismiss the charges.

Judge Cannon has so far not issued a ruling on a request made in January by Mr. Trump’s lawyers for additional discovery material about the prosecution’s ties to the intelligence community and other national security officials. The lawyers want that information to bolster their claims that members of the so-called deep state conspired to bring the case against Mr. Trump in an effort to sink his political campaign.

The judge is also sitting on a nearly 2-month-old request by Mr. Smith to permit redactions to be made to several of Mr. Trump’s own filings to protect the identities of witnesses who might testify for the government at trial. And she is still considering a host of the former president’s pretrial motions to the dismiss the case.

Should they run out of patience altogether, prosecutors could at some point file a motion asking Judge Cannon to remove herself from the case. She would probably reject that effort, requiring the government to go over her head and make the same request to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit, which sits above her.

Typically, recusal motions require prosecutors to point to flawed decisions. And so far, Judge Cannon has largely avoided making decisions, complicating any effort to get rid of her.



https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/03/us/p ... annon.html

barney
Posts: 7876
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Cannon Frustration

Post by barney » Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:44 pm

Cannon's bizarre behaviour suggests she is deeply corrupt.

lennygoran
Posts: 19347
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Re: Cannon Frustration

Post by lennygoran » Thu Apr 04, 2024 9:05 am

barney wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 5:44 pm
Cannon's bizarre behaviour suggests she is deeply corrupt.
Barney whether it's that or just her lack of experience it costing us a chance to nail trump on a charge that couldn't be clearer-between that and the slow walk on immunity by SCOTUS show the danger we're in here. Regards, Len :(

barney
Posts: 7876
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Cannon Frustration

Post by barney » Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:03 pm

Indeed, Len. When I say corrupt, I don't mean she is taking bribes - I have not the slightest reason to suggest that - I mean she is abnegating her responsibility to justice and the law in order to help the man who appointed her.

jserraglio
Posts: 11954
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:06 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Cannon Frustration

Post by jserraglio » Fri Apr 05, 2024 3:48 am

Might da Judge, a Federalist Society member, be on this organization’s SCOTUS list?

Also, her middle name just happens to be Mercedes, and like many on the far right, including one who posts here, Trump is a confirmed Germanophile. Not to mention the fact that Trump loves military displays, and Cannon is a weapons-grade surname.

“She can be my ‘Mad Dog’ Cannon. BEAUTIFULL!!”

Donald finds weird stuff like that irresistible. E.G., he recently said he supports a 15-week national abortion ban because 15 is a nice sounding round number.

lennygoran
Posts: 19347
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Re: Cannon Frustration

Post by lennygoran » Fri Apr 05, 2024 6:59 am

barney wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:03 pm
Indeed, Len. When I say corrupt, I don't mean she is taking bribes - I have not the slightest reason to suggest that - I mean she is abnegating her responsibility to justice and the law in order to help the man who appointed her.
Barney thanks-whatever is going on with her today I'm still not at ease with her despite what the Times calls a small win for Smith-potential trouble still looms and I sure don't trust her!

Down in the article this part makes me nervous:

"And today, she did just that. But while her order rejected Trump’s attempts to kill the case with a Presidential Records Act defense, it suggested that the conversation about how the act might show up during the trial itself would continue." Regards, Len


Jack Smith Gets a Bit of What He Wanted

The judge in the documents case rejected for now Donald Trump’s central argument to escape prosecution.



In the 10 months that she has overseen Donald Trump’s classified documents case, Judge Aileen Cannon has issued a raft of curious decisions and entertained claims from the defense that many federal judges would have rejected out of hand. She’s also allowed a pileup of unresolved legal issues to grow so thick that it’s threatening to delay any trial from taking place until after the election in November.

This week, the special counsel Jack Smith signaled he’d had enough.

In an unusual display of frustration, Smith wrote in a court filing on Tuesday night that one of Cannon’s recent orders wasn’t merely slowing down the case, but was based on “a fundamentally flawed legal premise” — not the sort of thing you typically hear a prosecutor saying to a judge.

Smith laid out his own solution to the problem he believed that Cannon had created: The judge, he said, should issue a ruling on one of Trump’s most brazen defenses in the case, and she should do so quickly, affording prosecutors the chance to appeal if she decides against them.

Today, Cannon gave Smith a bit of what he had asked for — but not everything.

She issued a ruling, just like he’d requested, rejecting Trump’s attempt to escape prosecution by arguing that he had converted the highly sensitive records he took from the White House into his own personal property. But she didn’t kill the argument altogether, suggesting that she might allow something similar to be raised in front of the jury during trial.

The dispute, while specific to the classified documents prosecution, points to the broader ways in which Trump’s lawyers have managed to gum up his criminal cases, including those in Washington and Georgia based on similar charges of plotting to subvert the 2020 election.

His legal team has repeatedly thrown sand into the gears of the proceedings, grinding them to all but a halt with endless waves of motions, many of them bordering on frivolous.

Trump’s team privately has been open about the strategy of delay, delay, delay — and it has been so successful in fact that, at this point, it is possible that only one of Trump’s four trials will go in front of a jury before voters go to the polls. That would be his trial in Manhattan on charges of covering up a sex scandal surrounding his 2016 presidential campaign, which is set to start on April 15.



From the start, Trump’s attempt to use a law known as the Presidential Records Act to lay personal claim to highly classified papers was a stretch.

The assertion is dubious on its face given that the statute was put in place after the Watergate scandal not so that presidents could unilaterally designate government documents as their own personal property, but for the opposite reason: to ensure that most remained in the possession of the government. In an earlier part of the classified documents case, the appeals court that sits over Cannon said that Trump “neither owns nor has a personal interest in” the documents at issue.

Even Cannon herself balked at the idea last month at a hearing in Florida, telling Trump’s lawyers that their interpretation would effectively “gut” the Presidential Records Act. But then, within days of the hearing, she suddenly seemed to reverse herself, ordering the defense and prosecution to send her proposed jury instructions that suggested she was still open to embracing the defense.

What she wanted from both sides was language designed to help potential jurors understand how the Presidential Records Act might affect the central allegation in the case: that Trump had taken “unauthorized possession” of the documents he removed from the White House.

The order was unusual for a number of reasons, not least because jury instructions are typically hashed out on the eve of trial and Cannon hasn’t even set a trial date yet despite the fact both sides have said they could be ready for one by summer.

But it was even stranger because by appearing to remain open to Trump’s position on the Presidential Records Acts, Cannon seemed to be willing to consider nudging any eventual jurors toward finding him not guilty. Her order left open another possibility: that she herself might acquit the former president near the end of the trial by summarily declaring that the government had failed to prove its case.


Hoping to avoid either of those pitfalls, Smith responded to the order by telling Cannon that the Presidential Records Act had absolutely no relevance to the case and that the defense Trump had based on it was “pure fiction” created “out of whole cloth” and “untethered to any facts.” Smith also said that Cannon’s own plan to receive jury instructions based on the act was completely wrong headed and rested on a “fundamentally flawed legal premise.”

What he wanted was for Cannon to decide the validity of the Presidential Records Act defense in a different way: by rejecting Trump’s motion to dismiss the case based on the same argument.

And today, she did just that. But while her order rejected Trump’s attempts to kill the case with a Presidential Records Act defense, it suggested that the conversation about how the act might show up during the trial itself would continue.

Cannon, in fact, chided Smith for wanting to end the discussion about jury instructions “prior to the presentation of trial defenses and evidence,” calling that request “unprecedented and unjust.”

She also defended her decision to ask both sides for their dueling takes on jury instructions.

Her request, she wrote, should be interpreted as “a genuine attempt, in the context of the upcoming trial, to better understand the parties’ competing positions and the questions to be submitted to the jury in this complex case of first impression.”

In other words, it may not be the last we hear about the Presidential Records Act.


https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/04/us/p ... smith.html

Rach3
Posts: 9214
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:17 am

Re: Cannon Frustration

Post by Rach3 » Fri Apr 05, 2024 11:38 am

She can simply not rule until trial starts, then torpedo the case as the article notes.Laurence Tribe and Neil Katyal last night both felt the only safe thing is to find a way for the 11th Circuit themselves to rule on the PRA issue right now, and/or remove her from the case, but there are apparently a couple Cannon-types on the 11th as well.Notice that Trump did not criticize her for not granting his motion to dismiss the case now ( which grant Smith could immediately appeal now ) as Trump knows exactly what she's up to either by design or incompetence or both.George Conway told Tribe she's " uniquely incompetent, but effective."
Last edited by Rach3 on Sat Apr 06, 2024 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

lennygoran
Posts: 19347
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Re: Cannon Frustration

Post by lennygoran » Fri Apr 05, 2024 10:03 pm

:( :(
Rach3 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2024 11:38 am
She can simply not rule until trial starts, then torpedo the case as the article notes.Laurence Tribe and Neil Katyal last night both felt the only safe thing is to find a way for the 11th Circuit themselves to rule on the PRA issue right now, and/or remove her from the case, but there are apparently a couple Cannon-types on the 11th as well.Notice that Trump did not criticize here for not granting his motion to dismiss the case now ( which grant Smith could immediately appeal now ) as Trump knows exactly what she's up to either by design or incompetence or both.George Conway told Tribe she's " uniquely incompetent, but effective."
Steve yeah-it sounds like they have it right. Regards, Len :(

jserraglio
Posts: 11954
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:06 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Cannon Frustration

Post by jserraglio » Sat Apr 06, 2024 4:09 am

lennygoran wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2024 10:03 pm
Steve yeah-it sounds like they have it right. Regards, Len :(
One might call her a loose Cannon (Ouch!) :twisted:

barney
Posts: 7876
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Cannon Frustration

Post by barney » Sat Apr 06, 2024 6:39 pm

Rach3 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2024 11:38 am
She can simply not rule until trial starts, then torpedo the case as the article notes.Laurence Tribe and Neil Katyal last night both felt the only safe thing is to find a way for the 11th Circuit themselves to rule on the PRA issue right now, and/or remove her from the case, but there are apparently a couple Cannon-types on the 11th as well.Notice that Trump did not criticize her for not granting his motion to dismiss the case now ( which grant Smith could immediately appeal now ) as Trump knows exactly what she's up to either by design or incompetence or both.George Conway told Tribe she's " uniquely incompetent, but effective."
From what I've read, you accurately sum up my fear.She'll get him off, one way or another.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests