CMG & GMG: It's Déjà Vu All Over Again

[MaestroDJS]

Good gravy, here's an interesting turn of events.

I stayed away from Classical Music Guide for most of last year because it wasn't much fun, and sometimes it was downright hostile. However in the past few months it's been interesting, informative and civil again. Kudos to Corlyss and Lance for making it a pleasure to participate once more.

Apparently Good-Music-Guide was formed by people who got tired of the old hijinks here on Classical Music Guide. It's only speculation, but maybe the housecleaning over here caused our troublemakers to move over there, combine with their troublemakers and form a hyper-critical mass. A lot of good guys from over there have come over here too. I just noticed this message:

There has been an unusually high level of in-fighting within the forum, and therefore I am closing it down for 24 hours.

Those of you who are making the forum an unpleasant place to visit need to re-think your involvement here. You know who you are. Re-read the guidelines, especially the bit about being nice to other members. Sometimes I get so pissed off at the goings on here that I am tempted to shut the whole thing down for ever. Its not worth my time, money and effort to sort out petty squabbles, irritations and cat-fights. If all members abided by the rather simple guidelines I set, it would be a better place for all.

For those of you who have come here to discuss music, and don't know what I am talking about, I apologise. I will welcome you all back in 24 hours.

Cheers
Rob Lang
Moderator, GMG.

Quoth Arte Johnson from Laugh-In: "Verrrry interesting."


Dave

David Stybr, Engineer and Composer: It's Left Brain vs. Right Brain: best 2 falls out of 3
http://members.SibeliusMusic.com/Stybr

Coordinator, Classical Music SIG (Special Interest Group) of American Mensa

String Quintet No. 2 in B Minor -- http://www.SibeliusMusic.com/cgi-bin/sh ... reid=53172

[Ralph]

I'm sorry for the owner of GMG-I've never been there but I understand his frustration.

ALL these boards are prone to flame wars and crank posts by folks who l may have limited access to the Web at the institutions where family or court placed them.

I only hope we can continue the fairly high level of civil exchanges that now predominate here.

[Corlyss_D]

I know naht'ing!


I'd love to be a fly on the wall and read what set Rob off. I have been told that Mel is over there, but I can't imagine that he'd use his real name.

[Ralph]

Corlyss,

Do we have an operative at GMG?

[Corlyss_D]

Several. Intermittent tho'.

[Ralph]

Several. Intermittent tho'.

*****

Do you worry at all about Double Agents?

[jbuck919]

I know naht'ing!


I'd love to be a fly on the wall and read what set Rob off. I have been told that Mel is over there, but I can't imagine that he'd use his real name.

Mel is over there and I will not divulge his screen ID in the public forum (it's not exactly a secret). Also, Eric Anderson was unbanned a long time ago and gets a lot of attention with his posts (which generally don't bother me). There is a poster who is a very provocative British university student (he started a thread on favorite heros mainly so that he could display the fact that one of his is Fidel Castro; wish Corlyss had been around to help me with that one). There's still a lot of good posting over there, though, and I would miss it if it came down.

Because I didn't log on there for three days I missed whatever immediately prompted this, but at least that means I couldn't inadvertently have been part of it.

[herman]

It is funny / sad indeed, but I guess these things are cyclic. GMG has become a rather high-traffic music board, and when you get a lot of traffic you get a lotta noise. And I don't just mean people who pop in asking "what's that tune" (and it's always "Oh Fortuna"). Inevitably there are also people who have this strange ambition of becoming a sort of Internet Personality by being as ubiquitously provocative as they can be. Usually these people like to change usernames a lot to keep people on their toes. The college kid Buck mentioned (who visits here too, talking about Bruckner "crap", and Mahler "rubbish" etc etc) is a case.

GMG was briefly a place where you could talk about music with a kind of earnestness and engagement that was rather refreshing and unusual. These things probably wouldn't last anywhere; but the noise factor has made it pretty much impossible there. There used to be terrific threads on Haydn, Sibelius, Chopin, Stravinsky, that just went on and on for months, pure music talk. I loved that. But that was a long time ago. It'll never come back. Now such talk would be instantly torpedoed by a stray asking "but Haydn is really crap, don't you think so?"

The other thing that seems to be cyclic is the building and storing up of resentment among members. IMO this used to be a problem at CMG, and indeed now there are whole bunches of people at GMG taking stale old potshots at each other. (Full disclosure: I am not above this myself; I just don't make it my day job.) IMO it's an inevitable outcome of people who want to be an Internet Personality, or even a Big Shot Music Buff. Invariably at the heart of these problems there are people who believe you're not talking to "real people" when you're talking on a forum, but to a screen. So it doesn't matter what names you call 'em.

One hilarious thing was Mel has been on GMG for quite awhile way before he left CMG, even though he was saying here GMG was a dainty pinky-out teadrinking place. As "Iago" he's still preaching the gospel of no-holds barred fighting. I don't think he's getting a lot of takers though.

Eric Anderson is a reformed character. No lingerie talk anymore. I kind of admire the way he got over the psycho stuff. He's actually a rather nice guy, a mensch.

The direct cause of Rob ceasing operations for 24 hours or so however was Todd (who spent some time here about a year ago, and who regards himself as a Big Guy at GMG, wth a full bully license) telling Eric he should have committed suicide long ago. This was not the first time Todd urged someone to go kill himself, talking to his screen. There were a lot of protests and things got nasty again, and that's when Rob pulled the plug. As soon as it's up again I have no doubt everybody will be nice for a couple of weeks.

One problem with GMG is it has become way to big too handle for one guy who has a full-time job. Rob would like GMG to be the friendly self-regulating place it was a long time ago (in internet time), so he won't have to make the tough calls himself. I think Corlyss and Lance have shown that occasionally you have to do something bad for the general good. But these are just my two cents.

[Ralph]

I know naht'ing!


I'd love to be a fly on the wall and read what set Rob off. I have been told that Mel is over there, but I can't imagine that he'd use his real name.

Mel is over there and I will not divulge his screen ID in the public forum (it's not exactly a secret). Also, Eric Anderson was unbanned a long time ago and gets a lot of attention with his posts (which generally don't bother me). There is a poster who is a very provocative British university student (he started a thread on favorite heros mainly so that he could display the fact that one of his is Fidel Castro; wish Corlyss had been around to help me with that one). There's still a lot of good posting over there, though, and I would miss it if it came down.

Because I didn't log on there for three days I missed whatever immediately prompted this, but at least that means I couldn't inadvertently have been part of it.

*****

Personally, I'm sorry Mel isn't here but I respect the owners' position. Eric Anderson got a lot of attention with his posts here too: the kind that drove people away.

[matti]

GMG was briefly a place where you could talk about music with a kind of earnestness and engagement that was rather refreshing and unusual. These things probably wouldn't last anywhere; but the noise factor has made it pretty much impossible there. There used to be terrific threads on Haydn, Sibelius, Chopin, Stravinsky, that just went on and on for months, pure music talk. I loved that. But that was a long time ago. It'll never come back. Now such talk would be instantly torpedoed by a stray asking "but Haydn is really crap, don't you think so?"

I also used to enjoy those threads very much. There is still a fair amount of nice and knowledgeable people at the GMG, but somehow the spirit has gone downhill. Too much hostility and bullying, less music talk. Also lots of opinions presented as the gospel truth. Tiresome.

The quality of argumentation has also deteriorated: "Sofronitsky totally owns Schumann!" "Why?" "Because he does, you ignorant moron."
"Brendel shouldn't be allowed to touch the piano!" "Why?" "Because he totally sucks."

[Ralph]

GMG was briefly a place where you could talk about music with a kind of earnestness and engagement that was rather refreshing and unusual. These things probably wouldn't last anywhere; but the noise factor has made it pretty much impossible there. There used to be terrific threads on Haydn, Sibelius, Chopin, Stravinsky, that just went on and on for months, pure music talk. I loved that. But that was a long time ago. It'll never come back. Now such talk would be instantly torpedoed by a stray asking "but Haydn is really crap, don't you think so?"

I also used to enjoy those threads very much. There is still a fair amount of nice and knowledgeable people at the GMG, but somehow the spirit has gone downhill. Too much hostility and bullying, less music talk. Also lots of opinions presented as the gospel truth. Tiresome.

The quality of argumentation has also deteriorated: "Sofronitsky totally owns Schumann!" "Why?" "Because he does, you ignorant moron."
"Brendel shouldn't be allowed to touch the piano!" "Why?" "Because he totally sucks."

*****

My way of dealing with that kind of mindless anti-intellectualism is to ignore it. Cause sooner or later it shows up on every board.

[karlhenning]

Eric Anderson is a reformed character. No lingerie talk anymore.

File this under Meets Exceptionally Low Expectations :-)

[karlhenning]

The quality of argumentation has also deteriorated: "Sofronitsky totally owns Schumann!"
"Why?"
"Because he does, you ignorant moron."

~~~~~

"Brendel shouldn't be allowed to touch the piano!"
"Why?"
"Because he totally sucks."

This dialogue is so compellingly realistic, Matti, I feel like I'm right there! :-) :-)

[karlhenning]

Kudos to Corlyss and Lance for making it a pleasure to participate once more.

I can't answer to the "once more" qualifier, but I say, "Hear, hear!"

[DavidRoss]

I'm new to both CMG & GMG, having happened onto the latter first in a search for sites to help an interested youngster learn more about classical music. Both seem like terrific resources to me, comprising an overlapping community of knowledgeable, passionate, articulate music lovers. There are some exceptions, of course, and GMG clearly has a few youngsters still feeling their oats and seeking attention. The tolerance and civility of more mature posters usually has a restraining effect, but when two or three of the kids start going at each other things can get out of hand pretty quickly.

I suggest ignoring offenders who persist in coarse manners and childish provocation. If they cannot get attention by such antics, they may try a more civil approach, or may simply fade away.

[Anne l.]

When Mel was banished, he requested Corlyss delete all references to him on the board. Today he was trashed mercilessly without possibility of defending himself. He requests that those posts be deleted.

[Corlyss_D]

When Mel was banished, he requested Corlyss delete all references to him on the board. Today he was trashed mercilessly without possibility of defending himself. He requests that those posts be deleted.

Mel makes a lot of demands. He hasn't been "trashed mercilessly."

Despite all your lurking, you only post to complain about the management.



Tell me again why Lance or I should snap to attention for either of you?

[Ted]

Despite all your lurking, you only post to complain about the management.

Just thought I’d drop in for a look-see (I’m on vacation) and what do I see but a bit of cross pollination.
Nothing wrong with that, unless the bees from parts yonder are towing parasitic vermin who hide out in the underbrush waiting to pounce upon the innocent enthusiast of music and conversation, creating havoc with their insidious, petulant and sophomoric bickering.
Having said that, carry on till I once again return with something a bit stronger than wolf bane
”Van Helsling will explain”
c&c
t

[herman]

Egos May Appear Bigger Than They Really Are

Yes, let's by all means import a "you're a moron!" "No, you're a moron!" discussion from GMG (particularly convenient since Rob will be a little stricter after this week's shut down).

Too cowardly to post this at GMG, Herman?

For the record, I did - ad nauseam some would say - voice my concern about the way things were going (starting with "Dumbing Down GMG") and my objections the way some people behaved at GMG. In fact I posted the exact same remarks about your hobby of urging people o commit suicide there as recent as last week, but thanks anyway.

I also thought it would be nice, after being this critical here, to post some music stuff on GMG. The place isn't that bad after all. There's just a couple of guys who apparently have a lot of ego issues to act out. Every one of those forums should have a sort of rear view disclaimer: EGOS MAY APPEAR BIGGER THAN THEY REALLY ARE.

Perhaps you have to be a little weird if you're posting on an internet forum. For instance, last night Machinaweapon registered at GMG under the username Adolph Hilter. When asked why he wanted to introduce himself with such an offensive moniker, he said he thought it was "amusing". Sometime ago the same kid posted a topic here sincerily asking why people were so hard to get along with. Go figure...

Matti, somehow it may be significant that when thinking about the Golden Age of GMG we think of these Composer topics - Gurn's Haydn Corner, the Sibelius, my humble Chopin topic (29 pages and counting) and several more. Not of those mindlessy recurring topics on what's the Best Recording of one of those status pieces, in which hardly anyone even bothers to explain why recording X and conductor Y and pianist Z are supposedly the Best.

Apparently it feels more connoisseurly to just say "Get Richter!" "Furtwängler is God!" "Karajan sucks!" etc. I have never quite understood the psychology of record recommendations: do these folks want to help people, or do they just want to impose their taste? But anyway as time goes on it becomes mindnumbingly repetitive, which is why people get so crabby.

[jbuck919]

It is most unfortunate that this turned into what the French might call an engueulade (a slanging match). It reminds me among other things that I have not been beyond being ad hominem with other posters both here and on the GMG, and it makes me appreciate real gentlemen like Ralph, the lamented Nigel, and Dave Stybr (MaestroDJS) who I am sure never intended this when he started this thread.

[karlhenning]

For my part, jbuck919, if you ever made a personal remark to me, at which I took insufficient offense, I hope you will pardon me :-)

[jbuck919]

For my part, jbuck919, if you ever made a personal remark to me, at which I took insufficient offense, I hope you will pardon me

C'est entendu, Alphonse.