She May Say No, But She Really Means Yes

[JackC]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 55,00.html

Great stuff about the fantasy land that is the EU. lol

[Cosima__J]

That's hilarious Jack. Thanks for sharing it.

It seems that losers the world over have the same need to say that the voters didn't REALLY mean it. I was for you before I voted against you --- or something like that.

[JackC]

Here's another

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/news/0,1567,12215_0,00.html

"Schroeder has said the rejection of the treaty by voters in France and the Netherlands must not derail the process of European integration."

I mean really, Two core countries of "Old Europe" and founding members of the EU have just screamed NO to the EU Constitution (which they were told was necessary for European integration), and the head of Germany comes out and says -- we must not let these votes stop the process.

Does it ever even occur to these guys that the people of Europe may not WANT the "process of European intergation" to continue as it has been?? Worse yet, do they care?

[Corlyss_D]

Death throes . . .
By Victor Davis Hanson
Published June 3, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The French and Dutch rebuffs of the European Union constitution will soon be followed by other rejections. Millions of proud, educated Europeans are tired of being told by unelected grandees that the mess they see is abstract art.

The EU constitution -- and its promise of a new Europe -- supposedly offered a corrective to the Anglo-American strain of Western civilization. More government, higher taxes, richer entitlements, pacifism, statism and atheism would make a more humane and powerful new Continent of more than 400 million to outpace a retrograde United States.

Instead, Europe faces a declining population, unassimilated minorities, low growth, high unemployment and an inability to defend itself, militarily or morally. Somehow the directorate of the European Union has figured out how to have too few citizens while having too many of them out of work.

The only question that remains is just how low will the 100,000 bureaucrats of the European Union go in shrieking to their defiant electorates as they stampede for the exits.

In fact, 2005 is a culmination of dying ideas. Despite the boasts and threats, almost every political alternative to Western liberalism over the last quarter-century is crashing or already in flames.

China's red-hot economy -- something like America's of 1870, before unionization, environmentalism and federal regulation -- shows just how dead communism is. Will Vietnam, North Korea and Cuba go out with a bang or a whimper? If North Korea's nutty communiques, Hugo Chavez's shouting about oil boycotts and Fidel Castro's harangues sound desperate, it is because they all are.

Fascism has long vacated its birthplace in Europe. The fragments of the former Soviet autocracy are democratizing. The caudillos are gone from Latin America. The last enclave of dictators is the Middle East. Yet after Saddam's capture in a cesspool, their hold is slipping, too. There will probably not be an Assad III or a second Mubarak.

The real suspense is whether the Gulf royals can make good on their promises of reform and elections. Will they end up like pampered Windsors or go the ignominious way of Iran's former shah? In desperation, the apparatchik journalists in the state-controlled Arab press damn the United States, the avatar of change. Syria breaks all relations with America, even as it leaves Lebanon, and is terrified of the Iraqi experiment.

Then there is bankrupt Islamic fundamentalism. The zealots can always tape a beheading or turn out a few thousand to burn an American flag. But the Taliban are gone from power. Iran faces popular disgust at home, while its desperate nuclear plots are awakening even a comatose Europe. And the promise of a return to the eighth century has always had an appeal limited to a few thousand pampered elites, like Osama bin Laden, Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri or Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi. These losers figured they might become Saladins if they convinced an Arab populace the Jews and America, not their own corrupt regimes, kept them poor. Now they are reduced to ranting about the evils of freedom and democracy.

Oil, terror, anti-Semitism and hating America gave the fundamentalists some resonance, but there were never any ideas. The Islamicists offered nothing to galvanize the Arab masses other than nihilism. That doctrine feeds and employs no one. Instead, we witness the creepy threats and the pyrotechnics of a lunatic ideology going the way of bushido and the kamikazes.

Why all these upheavals?

Global communications now reveal hourly to people abroad how much better life is in Europe than in the Middle East and Asia -- and how in America, Australia and Britain the standard of living is even better than in most of Europe.

The removal of the Taliban and Saddam Hussein and their replacement with democracies proved the United States after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, was neither weak nor cynical. In fact, it was the utopian United Nations, with its oil-for-food, snoozing in Darfur and scandals about peacekeepers, that proved corrupt and unreliable.

The mass mourning of the pope's death revealed a renewed desire for spirituality. Two billion in India and China quietly keep copying the West. Car bombs, fist-shaking mobs and beheadings dispel all the old romance about the Third-World postcolonial "other."

What are we left with then?

Democracy, open markets, personal freedom, individual rights, pride in national traditions, worry about big government -- which is what we see in the United States, Britain, Australia and their allies in Japan and the breakaway countries in Europe. Elections in Ethiopia, France, Iraq, Lebanon and Ukraine all point to a desire for more freedom from central state control.

Embers of communism, fascism, theocracy and socialism, of course, will always flare up if we become complacent or arrogant. Wounded beasts like Iran, North Korea and bin Laden are most dangerous before they expire. Expect discredited EU bureaucrats to conjure up the specter of the American bogeyman before they pension out.

Still, the racket and clamor from all these antidemocratic ideas in 2005 are not birth pangs, but the bitter death throes of those whose time has nearly passed.

Victor Davis Hanson is a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and is a nationally syndicated columnist.

Copyright © 2005 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.

[Ralph]

Leopards don't change their spots. It will be interesting to see if the French and Dutch voters want to sweep out the current placeholders when the opportunity arises.

[Modernistfan]

What do you expect from the Hoover Institution? About the same thing I expect from an administration that is now running a gulag and institutionalizing torture, trying to bring back government snooping into the bedrooms of millions of consenting adults, gay-bashing for all it is worth despite increasing evidence that these practices are harming its so-called "war on terror," and, at least for some of its supporters, chomping at the bit to abrogate the First Amendment and make me and other non-Christians at best second-class citizens. Peaceful, electoral regime change begins at home!

[JackC]

What do you expect from the Hoover Institution? About the same thing I expect from an administration that is now running a gulag and institutionalizing torture, trying to bring back government snooping into the bedrooms of millions of consenting adults, gay-bashing for all it is worth despite increasing evidence that these practices are harming its so-called "war on terror," and, at least for some of its supporters, chomping at the bit to abrogate the First Amendment and make me and other non-Christians at best second-class citizens. Peaceful, electoral regime change begins at home!

A "gulag"? "Institutionalizing torture"?

This sort of BS is why the LEFT is dying out fast. Most reasonable people are starting to catch on that its NOT all the same.

[Modernistfan]

I would hardly call it "BS" when Amnesty International, a nonpolitical, nongovernmental organization that is greatly esteemed, has used such language. What is BS is that America has sunk to the level of the tin-pot dictatorships that Amnesty International usually criticizes.

[JackC]

I would hardly call it "BS" when Amnesty International, a nonpolitical, nongovernmental organization that is greatly esteemed, has used such language. What is BS is that America has sunk to the level of the tin-pot dictatorships that Amnesty International usually criticizes.

Yes, Amnesty International used that language. They should have known better. If you know what a gulag is, you would know that it was inappropriate, though typical of the LEFT.

Now you say the US is a "tin-pot dictatorship." That's BS too. Still, keep it up. It reminds me that we are now in the death throws of the LEFT.

[Corlyss_D]

I would hardly call it "BS" when Amnesty International, a nonpolitical, nongovernmental organization that is greatly esteemed, has used such language. What is BS is that America has sunk to the level of the tin-pot dictatorships that Amnesty International usually criticizes.

If you think Amnesty International is a "nonpolitical" organization, you're as delusional as the AI people are. They have an agenda. They aren't interested in facts any more. They live in the same mental neighborhood that Ward Churchill does, engaged in a 24/7 effort to completely corrupt the language with inappropriate applications febrile vocabulary to comparatively innocent behaviors. Apt students of Orwell.

[Corlyss_D]

More Eurocratic babble
*******************************************************
EU woes raise global doubts

By Jill McGivering
BBC News, World Affairs correspondent



Until now, the European Union had appeared robust and on a path of healthy expansion.

Suddenly it is facing new uncertainties and engaging in agonised debate about its direction, its future and what sort of institution its people really want.

Populations in France and the Netherlands who voted "No" to the new EU constitution seemed to be rejecting the whole nature and pace of the EU's rapid growth, championed before this crisis by enthusiastic politicians.

But the EU's dramatic pause for thought is sparking anxiety.

Those inside the EU seem unusually introspective.

Those outside, including Washington, have their own worry: that the EU might become too distracted with internal affairs to give proper attention to pressing business on the world stage. [N.B.: Not like before . . . ]

When she met two senior EU officials on Thursday, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice tried to urge on the expansion process, which many in France and the Netherlands want to slow down, in referring to a Europe which "of course" includes Turkey.

Global demands

Whilst it was understandable, she said, that the EU would experience a "period of reflection", the US continued to hope for an outward-looking Europe, not an inward-looking one.

Since his re-election in November, US President George W Bush has described strengthening the transatlantic relationship, after the damage caused by disagreement on Iraq, as a top priority.

A strong, united Europe has pressing international business to address. [N.B.: But we can't wait forever for the teenager to grow up . . . .]

It is currently leading the drive for a diplomatic solution in the nuclear crisis with Iran, providing a valuable counterweight to US impatience with Tehran and a growing determination in Washington to use sticks, not carrots.

It is playing a valuable role in the Middle East, cajoling the Palestinians to do their part in the struggle to keep the roadmap alive, as Washington performs a similar shepherding role with the Israelis.

It is supporting the US in its drive to nurture democracy in the Middle East.

And after the bitterness of divisions over war in Iraq, Europe is also starting to respond to American overtures to put those disagreements in the past and help with the slow, long-term process of rebuilding and stabilising the country.

Clear objectives

To be strong and convincing in tackling those tasks effectively, the EU must be clearly focused on its foreign objectives and not have its credibility undermined by a perception that it is riven by internal crisis. [N.B.: No. Let's not reality obtrude on the fantasy . . . . ]

The United States is clearly worried that its newly rediscovered global ally, the EU, is in disarray. A Europe gazing at its navel is not the strong partner Washington wants in the hectic field of international diplomacy. [N.B. . . . but we're used to it and quite prepared to muddle thru without all their "help."]

It is certainly true that the current crisis will take time and energy to resolve. Europe is bound to experience a period of preoccupation as it learns to listen better to its people and find a new, more acceptable path forward.

But that need not mean Europe's influence must grind to a halt. As the row over Iraq reminded the world, EU foreign policy established in Brussels is certainly important [N.B. Oh? Lessee: they couldn't stop us, they they were outraged that they couldn't stop us, they were outraged that we didn't think their opinion was more important than our own security interests, and 2 of the 3 major EU regimes have changed. Yes, I can see how important a common EU foreign policy is] but can take a backseat to the policies and allegiances of its individual member countries, especially when they clash.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/e ... 606915.stm

Published: 2005/06/03 15:57:47 GMT

© BBC MMV

[Corlyss_D]

What do you expect from the Hoover Institution? About the same thing I expect from an administration that is now running a gulag and institutionalizing torture, trying to bring back government snooping into the bedrooms of millions of consenting adults, gay-bashing for all it is worth despite increasing evidence that these practices are harming its so-called "war on terror," and, at least for some of its supporters, chomping at the bit to abrogate the First Amendment and make me and other non-Christians at best second-class citizens. Peaceful, electoral regime change begins at home!

What fatuous nonsense!

[Lilith]

"It reminds me that we are now in the death throws of the LEFT."

From Jack, we get a statement of supreme ignorance. Jack- have you ever heard of cycles? Ebb and flow? Your time is waning Jack as the middle of this country finally realizes its been snookered for global - I mean Corporate - interests.

[Corlyss_D]

"It reminds me that we are now in the death throws of the LEFT."

From Jack, we get a statement of supreme ignorance. Jack- have you ever heard of cycles? Ebb and flow? Your time is waning Jack as the middle of this country finally realizes its been snookered for global - I mean Corporate - interests.

Dream on, Lilith.

[Lilith]

Oh, you don't agree Coryliss? How surprised am I? Dream on, Coryliss.

[Lilith]

Oh, I misspelled your name. I do apologize. I didn't mean to dismiss you like that.

[Corlyss_D]

Oh, that's okay, Lilith. I've become accustomed to it. I now give prizes to people who can pronounce the whole bloody thing without screwing it up on the first go. I've been known to respond to "Carla Stinker." The burdens of having an imaginative mother . . .

[Kevin R]

What do you expect from the Hoover Institution? About the same thing I expect from an administration that is now running a gulag and institutionalizing torture, trying to bring back government snooping into the bedrooms of millions of consenting adults, gay-bashing for all it is worth despite increasing evidence that these practices are harming its so-called "war on terror," and, at least for some of its supporters, chomping at the bit to abrogate the First Amendment and make me and other non-Christians at best second-class citizens. Peaceful, electoral regime change begins at home!

To compare Gitmo with the gulags is historical ignorance of the first magnitude. AI has done some fine work at times, but this was complete drivel and its leaders should publicly retract it as soon as possible and issue an apology to those survivors of the gulags.

The rest of your post was ridiculous.

For those who are interested, here is a link to info on just one of the camps. It comes from a survivor of the hell that was Kolyma:

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/w/x/w ... olyma.html

[jbuck919]

May I insert what I consider a common sense reply in all this? The Europeans themselves are not emoting to the extent that US members of this board are. It is extremely obvious to almost everyone over here that the benefits of European unity outweigh the drawbacks. On the other hand, it is not to be expected that a region of the world that has a 1500-year tradition of separation (I'm counting from the fall of the Roman empire, but other means of reckoning might be equally valid) and which was involved in mutual war on the most horrific scale within living memory would instantly assent to becoming the United States of Europe.

The failure of the EU constitution is a drawback, and I regret it, but ultimately, like my neighbors, I shrug my shoulders. It may be a more realistic conception when they can plausibly stretch it to the Caucasus.

In the meantime, Europe muddles along. The biggest problem is unemployment. I'm not a magician and don't know how to answer that one.

[Ralph]

What do you expect from the Hoover Institution? About the same thing I expect from an administration that is now running a gulag and institutionalizing torture, trying to bring back government snooping into the bedrooms of millions of consenting adults, gay-bashing for all it is worth despite increasing evidence that these practices are harming its so-called "war on terror," and, at least for some of its supporters, chomping at the bit to abrogate the First Amendment and make me and other non-Christians at best second-class citizens. Peaceful, electoral regime change begins at home!

To compare Gitmo with the gulags is historical ignorance of the first magnitude. AI has done some fine work at times, but this was complete drivel and its leaders should publicly retract it as soon as possible and issue an apology to those survivors of the gulags.

The rest of your post was ridiculous.

For those who are interested, here is a link to info on just one of the camps. It comes from a survivor of the hell that was Kolyma:

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/w/x/w ... olyma.html

*****

I've previously suggested that folks read Martin Amis's "Koba the Dread," an extraordinarily literate and gripping depiction of Stalin and the havoc that madman unleashed.

Amnesty International has little if any credibility with anyone who looks at what kind of organization it's become.