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Shhhhh....hey, is this a BOOTLEG??

Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 1:35 pm
by Wallingford
I've got two of these super-bargain, 10-CD sets of the maestros of the 78 era, both on the History label (from Germany, I think). Here's one I've got:
link

I've also got the Beecham set ("Maestro Tempestoso"). The thing I'm wondering is this: are the recordings here lifted directly from out-of-print CDs from Dante or Dutton? The Beecham set has some of the same hokey "fake stereo" effect as the latter label; and my Koussevitzky set above duplicates the exact same sequence as Dante on one or two of its discs (the live Rachmaninov Third & Isle Of The Dead disc, for instance.....boy, what a secret they're hiding from the BSO, which always suppresses these concert CDs & then just sits on them!).

Re: Shhhhh....hey, is this a BOOTLEG??

Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:16 pm
by jserraglio
Wallingford wrote: The thing I'm wondering is this: are the recordings here lifted directly from out-of-print CDs from Dante or Dutton?
I think the Koussevitzky set I have is the same as yours but it's on the TIM label. I wish they were Dante or Dutton transfers.

I bought four of these sets from BRO (also Mitropoulos, Ansermet and Schuricht). The Mitropoulos sounded pretty rotten even to my ears. Then I happened to see these 2 posts:
Peter Schenkman wrote:I haven’t heard the Archipel, Mitropoulos releases but I can point out one label to avoid at all costs in any and all of their releases and they’ve got a lot out there. “Dimitri Mitropoulos, Maestro Spiritoso” a ten disc set on the TIM label. As sold at the Berkshire Record Outlet it could be purchased for about $20.00, which at the end of the day would be money completely wasted. I’m not a stickler for great sound if the performance make up for the difference, and I’m a big fan of Mitropoulos but these transfers are pretty much unlistenable.
Lance wrote:Like you Peter, I found out the hard way as well. I have a number of these 10-CD sets and every one of them is some of the worst "remastering" I have ever heard, with all the performances distorted (not in sound) but in musical interpretation with someone playing with equalization. That is, perhaps, the reason all these big sets are going so cheaply. I have the Koussevitzky, Ansermet, Celibidache, Schuricht, and Mitropoulos. So, if you think you are getting a good deal, forget these TIM label products. In two words, they stink. All the "effort" put into these sets was accomplished by someone who knows nothing about music or remastering practices.
<div align="right">*** http://classicalmusicguide.com/phpBB2/v ... highlight= </div>

Re: Shhhhh....hey, is this a BOOTLEG??

Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 10:48 pm
by Lance
jserraglio wrote:
Wallingford wrote: The thing I'm wondering is this: are the recordings here lifted directly from out-of-print CDs from Dante or Dutton?
I think the Koussevitzky set I have is the same as yours but it's on the TIM label. I wish they were Dante or Dutton transfers.

I bought four of these sets from BRO (also Mitropoulos, Ansermet and Schuricht). The Mitropoulos sounded pretty rotten even to my ears. Then I happened to see these 2 posts:
Peter Schenkman wrote:I haven’t heard the Archipel, Mitropoulos releases but I can point out one label to avoid at all costs in any and all of their releases and they’ve got a lot out there. “Dimitri Mitropoulos, Maestro Spiritoso” a ten disc set on the TIM label. As sold at the Berkshire Record Outlet it could be purchased for about $20.00, which at the end of the day would be money completely wasted. I’m not a stickler for great sound if the performance make up for the difference, and I’m a big fan of Mitropoulos but these transfers are pretty much unlistenable.
Lance wrote:Like you Peter, I found out the hard way as well. I have a number of these 10-CD sets and every one of them is some of the worst "remastering" I have ever heard, with all the performances distorted (not in sound) but in musical interpretation with someone playing with equalization. That is, perhaps, the reason all these big sets are going so cheaply. I have the Koussevitzky, Ansermet, Celibidache, Schuricht, and Mitropoulos. So, if you think you are getting a good deal, forget these TIM label products. In two words, they stink. All the "effort" put into these sets was accomplished by someone who knows nothing about music or remastering practices.
<div align="right">*** http://classicalmusicguide.com/phpBB2/v ... highlight= </div>
To think what COULD have been with these 10-CD sets from TIM ... even if they HAD copied originals produced by AS Disc, Dante/Lys or others, they would have been better off to copy those as they were, not try to "improve" the sound, which never happened. I stand by my original notice: STAY AWAY from these 10-CD sets, even if they drop to $1.00/USA a disc. I think of all the people who have these and my heart sinks because they are not getting an accurate portrayal of the conductors and orchestras involved.

Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 11:22 pm
by Ralph
I don't think they're "bootleg." Many labels now license material they really can't peddle. That's why BRILLIANT is doing so much, so well.

Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 2:31 pm
by Corlyss_D
If the originals were liberated house recordings or made in someone's lap, like so many bootleg opera recordings, I'd say yeah. But from Lance's description it doesn't sound like they were recorded surrepticiously, just abused in the studio.

Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 3:41 pm
by Holden Fourth
Not all the TIM boxes sound so bad. I went for some of the 4 CD boxes and auditioned carefully. Out of that lot I got some Schnabel, Walter, Mengelberg and also some Furtwangler twofers. I chose carefully and wasn't disappointed. The others I listened to were as Lance et al described them.