Sex and Music!

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Lance
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Sex and Music!

Post by Lance » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:53 pm

Nothing to say here. I'm just taking a count on how many "hits" this is going to get. I'm always curious about subject lines and I'm willing to bet this will get quite a number. In a week it will be deleted. It may garner even more hits if you put some kind of a response hereon.

springrite
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Post by springrite » Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:53 pm

Checked in by mistake when I misread the first word as "sax" as I have something to say about the Larsson Concertino for Sax and Orchestra.
Music starts where words fail.

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Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:27 am

It's kinda slow. I think we need a big argument about something to get a lot of hits. Mebbe we should debate whether there should be sex in music or not.
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springrite
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Post by springrite » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:07 am

Milton Babbitt's "The Joy of Sextet" and "More Joy of Sextet".

Discuss!
Music starts where words fail.

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yes,sex!

Post by PJME » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:09 am

This could be a very interesting topic! Or are you Americans indeed prude wimps?
All kinds of sexuallity figure prominently in lots of music. From Renaissance opera (gods, nymphs,satyrs), to the murky waters of Wagner's world, Berg's Lulu, Bruno Maderna's Satyricon,Katerina Ismailova !

Sexuallity and music can be tackled seriously. let's try to find out.

Does the sexual orientation of a composer influence his/her work?
Are audiences shocked by nudity,homosexuality etc. in the staging of opera or musical?
Which works have been inspired by sexuality? Does it make them interesting,challenging?
Last edited by PJME on Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Ralph » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:29 am

Well, am I the only OLDSTER here for whom Ravel's Bolero brings instant flashbacks of amorous, sweaty entanglements?
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Post by Pete » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:34 am

I have always identified Chopin's op. 28, no. 1 as "The Orgasm Prelude."

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Post by diegobueno » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:47 am

Ralph wrote:Well, am I the only OLDSTER here for whom Ravel's Bolero brings instant flashbacks of amorous, sweaty entanglements?
You mean Bo Derek?

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Post by diegobueno » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:50 am

Maybe it's significant that Wagner's Tristan begins with a Vorspiel (i.e. "foreplay")
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Post by Ralph » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:59 am

diegobueno wrote:
Ralph wrote:Well, am I the only OLDSTER here for whom Ravel's Bolero brings instant flashbacks of amorous, sweaty entanglements?
You mean Bo Derek?

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Post by premont » Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:42 am

[quote="Corlyss_D"] Mebbe we should debate whether there should be sex in music or not.[/quote]
Sex is a natural and a wonderful part of human expression and should be present in music as well as everywhere. If we deny sex, we deny ourselves. (Certainly the new pope will not agree).
Regards,

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Re: yes,sex!

Post by premont » Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:49 am

[quote="PJME"]
Does the sexual orientation of a composer influence his/her work?
Are audiences shocked by nudity,homosexuality etc. in the staging of opera or musical?
[/quote]

The answer to both your questions is : Yes, very often. :shock:

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Re: yes,sex!

Post by Ralph » Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:42 am

premont wrote:
PJME wrote: Does the sexual orientation of a composer influence his/her work?
Are audiences shocked by nudity,homosexuality etc. in the staging of opera or musical?


The answer to both your questions is : Yes, very often. :shock:
*****

I've never thought so. Opera, like drama, may well be another matter but I think it depends very much on the composer. Certainly there is no homoerotic quality to "Trouble in Tahiti" or "West Side Story." Marc Blitzstein's ""The Cradle Rocks" likewise doesn't reflect his gay orientation, the probable basis for his murder.
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Re: yes,sex!

Post by Ralph » Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:45 am

premont wrote:
PJME wrote: Does the sexual orientation of a composer influence his/her work?
Are audiences shocked by nudity,homosexuality etc. in the staging of opera or musical?


The answer to both your questions is : Yes, very often. :shock:
*****

With "9 Songs" packin' 'em in, at least here in NYC, it's a fair question if anything shocks those who with adequate notice go to performances with nudity and explicit sexuality.

When the American Symphony Orchestra last season did several of Hindemith's operas without staging, these Weimar works with their strong sexual content surprised a number of attendees but shock or annoyance? No way. Not in Gotham. :)
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Re: yes,sex!

Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:49 am

PJME wrote:Does the sexual orientation of a composer influence his/her work?
I can't imagine how except in advertising!
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Re: yes,sex!

Post by premont » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:11 am

[quote="Corlyss_D"][quote="PJME"]Does the sexual orientation of a composer influence his/her work? [/quote]
I can't imagine how except in advertising![/quote]

Think of the many piano pieces Beethoven dedicated to his beloved female pupils. Do you think, he should have done this, if he were gay?

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Re: yes,sex!

Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:32 am

premont wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:
PJME wrote:Does the sexual orientation of a composer influence his/her work?
I can't imagine how except in advertising!
Think of the many piano pieces Beethoven dedicated to his beloved female pupils. Do you think, he should have done this, if he were gay?
Weren't they patrons of some kind or another?
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Re: yes,sex!

Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:33 am

premont wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:
PJME wrote:Does the sexual orientation of a composer influence his/her work?
I can't imagine how except in advertising!
Think of the many piano pieces Beethoven dedicated to his beloved female pupils. Do you think, he should have done this, if he were gay?
Weren't they patrons of some kind or another? BTW, how come in your quotes, the software commands continue to remain text? Just curious.
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Re: yes,sex!

Post by Ralph » Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:44 pm

premont wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:
PJME wrote:Does the sexual orientation of a composer influence his/her work?
I can't imagine how except in advertising!
Think of the many piano pieces Beethoven dedicated to his beloved female pupils. Do you think, he should have done this, if he were gay?
*****

I have had and have many gay friends who are close friends with members of the other gender.
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Post by Darryl » Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:12 pm

Ralph wrote:Well, am I the only OLDSTER here for whom Ravel's Bolero brings instant flashbacks of amorous, sweaty entanglements?
Ralph and I had the same ... what do the shrinks say ... "free associations?"
Last edited by Darryl on Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: yes,sex!

Post by premont » Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:41 am

Corlyss_D wrote:
PJME wrote:Does the sexual orientation of a composer influence his/her work?
Weren't they patrons of some kind or another? BTW, how come in your quotes, the software commands continue to remain text? Just curious.
Think of the ardent passion LvB addressed to the beloved woman in the cis-minor sonata. I think this implies a heterosexual orientation.

As to my software commands , I haven´t got the skill to find out. I have changed some options in my profile, maybe it shall work.
Last edited by premont on Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by premont » Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:44 am

Hey, it works. :D

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Post by daycart » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:19 am

I think the most erotic piece of music in existence is the first movement of the Franck Piano Quintet. Runners up are -Tristan- (the prelude, e.g.) and Scriabin's -Poem of Ecstasy-. 8)

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Post by Corlyss_D » Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:56 pm

premont wrote:Hey, it works. :D
:D Congrats and thank you! Much easier to read now.
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Brendan

Post by Brendan » Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:26 pm

Thanks to a former poster I have an occasional odd association concerning the Adagio from Bruckner's 8th. Enough said.

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Re: yes,sex!

Post by Harvested Sorrow » Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:21 pm

PJME wrote:This could be a very interesting topic! Or are you Americans indeed prude wimps?
All kinds of sexuallity figure prominently in lots of music. From Renaissance opera (gods, nymphs,satyrs), to the murky waters of Wagner's world, Berg's Lulu, Bruno Maderna's Satyricon,Katerina Ismailova !

Sexuallity and music can be tackled seriously. let's try to find out.

Does the sexual orientation of a composer influence his/her work?
Are audiences shocked by nudity,homosexuality etc. in the staging of opera or musical?
Which works have been inspired by sexuality? Does it make them interesting,challenging?
I would say that Tchaivosky's orientation certainly influenced his work.

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Re: yes,sex!

Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:32 pm

Harvested Sorrow wrote:I would say that Tchaivosky's orientation certainly influenced his work.
:roll: How, pray?
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Re: yes,sex!

Post by Harvested Sorrow » Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:58 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
Harvested Sorrow wrote:I would say that Tchaivosky's orientation certainly influenced his work.
:roll: How, pray?
It's been argued quite often that the reason his last three symphonies had elements of tension and the ominous "fate" motif in them was because he was struggling with his orientation, as if he felt it wasn't right, but couldn't help it. It's believed that's why he was emotionally distraught and wrote music that reflected that.

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Re: yes,sex!

Post by Ralph » Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:17 pm

Harvested Sorrow wrote:
PJME wrote:This could be a very interesting topic! Or are you Americans indeed prude wimps?
All kinds of sexuallity figure prominently in lots of music. From Renaissance opera (gods, nymphs,satyrs), to the murky waters of Wagner's world, Berg's Lulu, Bruno Maderna's Satyricon,Katerina Ismailova !

Sexuallity and music can be tackled seriously. let's try to find out.

Does the sexual orientation of a composer influence his/her work?
Are audiences shocked by nudity,homosexuality etc. in the staging of opera or musical?
Which works have been inspired by sexuality? Does it make them interesting,challenging?
I would say that Tchaivosky's orientation certainly influenced his work.
*****

How? Where?
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Post by Harvested Sorrow » Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:21 pm

I answered that already. Read my previous post.

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Re: yes,sex!

Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:44 pm

Harvested Sorrow wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:
Harvested Sorrow wrote:I would say that Tchaivosky's orientation certainly influenced his work.
:roll: How, pray?
It's been argued quite often that the reason his last three symphonies had elements of tension and the ominous "fate" motif in them was because he was struggling with his orientation, as if he felt it wasn't right, but couldn't help it. It's believed that's why he was emotionally distraught and wrote music that reflected that.
Oh, but that could have been any emotional stress. What I mean is, if he were mourning the death of his children, like Mahler or Verdi, the grief could have been expressed the same way. Emotional stress is emotional stress is emotional stress. It is not uniquely "homosexual" or "parental" or "filial". It's just stress. I thought you meant there was something uniquely telling about his orientation that found expression in his music. I'm skeptical, which is why I mentioned earlier that the only way anyone would know is thru the advertising.
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Post by Harvested Sorrow » Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:19 am

Oh, okay. Just a misunderstanding. It's possible, however, it does seem likely that his wrangling with that issue is what caused it...I didn't mean there was some definitive element of his music that would only come from a homosexual composer.

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Post by Corlyss_D » Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:36 am

Harvested Sorrow wrote:Oh, okay. Just a misunderstanding. It's possible, however, it does seem likely that his wrangling with that issue is what caused it...I didn't mean there was some definitive element of his music that would only come from a homosexual composer.
:D Good! We're on the same page! I agree that if he were torturing himself over his orientation, the stress would find expression in his works.
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Post by Harvested Sorrow » Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:13 pm

I'm glad we got that misunderstanding cleared up. :)

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Post by Corlyss_D » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:00 pm

Hey, Lance! I think you proved your point about this thread. Look at the number of hits it has.
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Post by Lance » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:04 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:Hey, Lance! I think you proved your point about this thread. Look at the number of hits it has.
Yes! It's doing well. I was going to remove it after a week but I've decided to leave it on. I see some really interesting points coming out of it. I will be watching to see where all this goes.

Wait until you see another SUBJECT LINE I'll be putting up soon! :lol: :wink: :lol:
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Post by Lance » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:05 pm

Hey, don't stop checking this thread out n o w ... we're on a roll (not piano roll) here! Isn't this just a great subject?
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Post by Ralph » Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:08 am

Lance wrote:Hey, don't stop checking this thread out n o w ... we're on a roll (not piano roll) here! Isn't this just a great subject?
*****

It certainly is!
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Post by MahlerSnob » Sat Aug 13, 2005 1:18 pm

What? You think Del Tredici's tone poem "Gay Life" was some how influenced by his sexual orientation? Ha. Absurd.

But seriously - a composer's personality is always reflected in their work in one way or another. Does this mean that there are specific characteristics of gay composer's compositions? Of course not. However, every work a composer produces contains some bit of their personality. The only people who can definitively say what bits of personality come through in different pieces are people who know the composers personaly and the composers themselves.
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Post by Darryl » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:30 pm

Lance wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:Hey, Lance! I think you proved your point about this thread. Look at the number of hits it has.
Yes! It's doing well. I was going to remove it after a week but I've decided to leave it on. I see some really interesting points coming out of it. I will be watching to see where all this goes.

Wait until you see another SUBJECT LINE I'll be putting up soon! :lol: :wink: :lol:
Let me guess: "Sex or Music?"

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Post by Werner » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:07 pm

...and the question: what's your preference?
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