Slavonic Dances

Locked
dulcinea
Posts: 3466
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: tampa, fl

Slavonic Dances

Post by dulcinea » Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:20 pm

:?: Why are they called SLAVONIC when they have nothing to do with Slavonia? In fact, Slavonia is nowhere near the historic Czech lands.
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

jbuck919
Military Band Specialist
Posts: 26867
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Stony Creek, New York

Post by jbuck919 » Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:40 pm

There is no such place as Slavonia. Slavonic is a generic term for something of Slav(ic) origin.

These dances were a huge financial success for Dvorak, in precisely the measure that they are mind-numbingly mediocre.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Holden Fourth
Posts: 1563
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:47 am

Re: Slavonic Dances

Post by Holden Fourth » Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:14 pm

dulcinea wrote::?: Why are they called SLAVONIC when they have nothing to do with Slavonia? In fact, Slavonia is nowhere near the historic Czech lands.
You could also argue the same for Liszt's Rhapsodie Espagnole, Brahm's Hungarian Dances and the Beethoven Ecossaises.

12tone
Posts: 304
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:00 pm
Location: BC, Canada

Post by 12tone » Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:45 pm

I thought Slavonic meant slave...so basically: Slave Dances.

Auntie Lynn
Posts: 1123
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 10:42 pm

Post by Auntie Lynn » Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:00 pm

Could not live without them on The Job...I use all of them...

dulcinea
Posts: 3466
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: tampa, fl

Slavonic Dances

Post by dulcinea » Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:01 pm

[quote="jbuck919"]There is no such place as Slavonia. Slavonic is a generic term for something of Slav(ic) origin. One of the Landen of the Austrian Empire, now the northern part of Vojvodina, Serbia. Since much of its population is Magyar and Romanian, this territory might eventually become as troublesome as Kosovo.
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

dulcinea
Posts: 3466
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: tampa, fl

Slavonic Dances

Post by dulcinea » Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:14 pm

Clarification: when Croatia became independent, all of Slavonia became part of it. Vojvodina--the territory with considerable Magyar and Romanian presence--is a different entity entirely.
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

GK
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Silver Spring, MD

Post by GK » Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:18 pm

I'm with jbuck on this one. A major disapointment at a concert was the inordinate amount of time devoted to these pieces.

Donald Isler
Posts: 3057
Joined: Tue May 20, 2003 11:01 am
Contact:

Post by Donald Isler » Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:41 pm

Well I like them!
Donald Isler

val
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:46 am
Location: Lisbon

Post by val » Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:40 am

Well I like them.
I also like them. The Slavonic Dances, like Brahms Hungarian Dances, were the light music at the time. If we compare their quality to the light music of the present I think we can measure very well what was then meant by Civilization.

Fugu

Post by Fugu » Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:47 am

I love it when someone calls something so wonderful mediocre yet himself calls the band music he listens to as somehow better.

jbuck919
Military Band Specialist
Posts: 26867
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Stony Creek, New York

Post by jbuck919 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:01 pm

I suppose I should have just googled Slavonia.

I don't pretend that band music is wonderful on the level of classical music. Like show music or any popular form that one might enjoy, it has its own standards. I won't argue with anyone who likes the Slavonic Dances as classical music, but they bore me by that standard.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

pizza
Posts: 5094
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:03 am

Post by pizza » Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:10 pm

Tutti i gusti sono giusti! :wink:

Dickson
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:45 am

Post by Dickson » Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:41 pm

Slavonic Dances boring? You must not mean the ones written by Dvorak. Or else you've run into some seriously bad recordings.
One of my favorite cd's in the last couple of years was the Harnoncourt/Chamber Orch of Europe. Some real gusto. And who cares if it's classical/folk/jazz/band/whatever....it's great fun.

Cyril Ignatius
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:14 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Post by Cyril Ignatius » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:05 pm

Dvorak's Slavanic Dances are wonderful! I recommend Ivan Fischer's recording with the Budapest Philharmonic.
Cyril Ignatius

MaestroDJS
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:15 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois, United States, North America, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe

Post by MaestroDJS » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:43 pm

jbuck919 wrote:There is no such place as Slavonia. Slavonic is a generic term for something of Slav(ic) origin.
Ah, gee whiz, shatter our treasured illusions! I suppose next you'll be tellin' us there's no such place as Leutonia, and that the great Leutonian polka stars Yosh and Stan Shmenge (The Happy Wanderers, a.k.a. John Candy and Eugene Levy) are completely fictitious. :D

Image

Dave

David Stybr, Engineer and Composer: It's Left Brain vs. Right Brain: best 2 falls out of 3
http://members.SibeliusMusic.com/Stybr
String Quintet No. 2 in B Minor (20:00)
http://www.SibeliusMusic.com/cgi-bin/sh ... reid=53172

Personal Assistant and Der Webmeister to author Denise Swanson
http://www.DeniseSwanson.com
Murder of a Smart Cookie
Penguin Putnam ~ Signet, New York, NY

MaestroDJS
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:15 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois, United States, North America, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe

Post by MaestroDJS » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:07 pm

Antonín Dvorák was also the subject of an interesting case of lost and found. Dvorák wrote his 1st symphony in 1865 at the age of 23. Apparently he submitted it to a competition in Germany, and never saw the score again. 20 years later he included it on a list of early compositions which he claimed were destroyed.

However, through a strange coincidence the music survived. In 1882 while browsing though a 2nd-hand bookshop in Leipzig, a Dr. Rudolph Dvorák, a namesake but no relation, saw the manuscript of the symphony and bought it only because the composer had the same name as his. It is definitely an authentic work for it was Antonín Dvorák's own handwriting, and some of the themes appear later in the composer's piano composition Silhouettes.

Rudolph Dvorák was a 22-year-old Czech Oriental scholar when he bought the work and it remained unknown in his possession until he died in 1920. It then passed on to Rudolph's son. 3 years later he made this music public, but it wasn't until 1936 that it received its first public performance, and then in heavily edited form. The score itself was finally published in 1961. It is the only symphony which Dvorák never heard performed and which he had no chance to revise. No doubt Dvorák would have wanted to improve the work, but it is fascinating to see and hear his methods before fame and other contemporary composers influenced his work. It is also instructive to note his great development in the 28 years between his first and last symphonies.

Symphony No. 1 in C Minor, which is now a standard orchestral work, is given the title "The Bells of Zlonice". This title does not appear on the original score but apparently Dvorák referred to the music by this name in later years in later years. There are allusions to bells in the 1st movement and also in the finale, but it is not certain that Dvorák would name a symphony after a city in which he was not very happy.

Dave

David Stybr, Engineer and Composer: It's Left Brain vs. Right Brain: best 2 falls out of 3
http://members.SibeliusMusic.com/Stybr
String Quintet No. 2 in B Minor (20:00)
http://www.SibeliusMusic.com/cgi-bin/sh ... reid=53172

Personal Assistant and Der Webmeister to author Denise Swanson
http://www.DeniseSwanson.com
Murder of a Smart Cookie
Penguin Putnam ~ Signet, New York, NY

Gary
Posts: 1802
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:16 am
Location: Houston, TX

Post by Gary » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:17 pm

Fascinating info as usual, Maestro Dave!


MaestroDJS wrote:This title does not appear on the original score but apparently Dvorák referred to the music by this name in later years in later years.
That's quite late! :wink:
"Your idea of a donut-shaped universe intrigues me, Homer; I may have to steal it."

--Stephen Hawking makes guest appearance on The Simpsons

MaestroDJS
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:15 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois, United States, North America, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe

Post by MaestroDJS » Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:16 am

Gary wrote:Fascinating info as usual, Maestro Dave!
MaestroDJS wrote:This title does not appear on the original score but apparently Dvorák referred to the music by this name in later years in later years.
That's quite late! :wink:
Aha! so youse guys really do read these. Double plus good! :D
Dave

jbuck919
Military Band Specialist
Posts: 26867
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Stony Creek, New York

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:06 am

MaestroDJS wrote:
jbuck919 wrote:There is no such place as Slavonia. Slavonic is a generic term for something of Slav(ic) origin.
Ah, gee whiz, shatter our treasured illusions! I suppose next you'll be tellin' us there's no such place as Leutonia, and that the great Leutonian polka stars Yosh and Stan Shmenge (The Happy Wanderers, a.k.a. John Candy and Eugene Levy) are completely fictitious. :D
Dave

I also don't believe that there is a species of Python called the Monty Python.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

DavidRoss
Posts: 3384
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 7:05 am
Location: Northern California

Post by DavidRoss » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:47 am

I thought Slavonia was that tiny nation bordered by Grand Fenwick on the east and Freedonia on the west?
"Most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." ~Leo Tolstoy

"It is the highest form of self-respect to admit our errors and mistakes and make amends for them. To make a mistake is only an error in judgment, but to adhere to it when it is discovered shows infirmity of character." ~Dale Turner

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either." ~Albert Einstein
"Truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it; but, in the end, there it is." ~Winston Churchill

Image

jbuck919
Military Band Specialist
Posts: 26867
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Stony Creek, New York

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:04 am

DavidRoss wrote:I thought Slavonia was that tiny nation bordered by Grand Fenwick on the east and Freedonia on the west?
And, for those of us old enough to get it, Franistan on the north.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

MahlerSnob
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 5:31 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Post by MahlerSnob » Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:06 pm

They are what they are: crowd pleasers. They're good as encores and pops programs, but I don't think Dvorak intended them to be profound artistic statements or great music. I'm with jbuck on this one.

And, for the record, there is some very good music written for wind band.
-Nathan Lofton
Boston, MA

WWBD - What Would Bach Do?

kalina
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:16 pm

Post by kalina » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:05 pm

Fascinating, from Dvorzak to Slavonia=Slavic to Kosovo (waiting for the history of it too) :(

Btw, Slavonia is not Vojvodina, it's two separate geographical regions. Slavonia borders Vojvodina to the east, and today most of it's territory is in Croatia, as a matter of fact, it has never been part of Serbia, not even before 91 when there was some fighting in '91 over it with Serbia, but that's a long story for classical lovers I think. It's the northern part of Croatia,not the northern part of Serbia - just to clarify again;)

As for Dvorzak - I'll have to put him on sometime soon.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests