On ____, I paid ____ a ____ for ____ (fuel) at ____ in ____

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RebLem
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On ____, I paid ____ a ____ for ____ (fuel) at ____ in ____

Post by RebLem » Thu May 25, 2006 1:33 pm

I thought it would be a good idea for us to post how much we are paying to fuel our vehicles. The headline has so many blanks because there are so many variables.

On 23 MAY 2006, I paid $2.759 USD a US gallon for 86 octane gasoline with, I think, 10% ethanol at Costco in Albuquerque, NM, USA.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
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Post by Ralph » Thu May 25, 2006 4:12 pm

On _WEDNESDAY___, I paid _1.50___ a 12-pack____ for Diet Coke____ (fuel) at Stop & Shop____ in Westchester County, NY____
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Post by jbuck919 » Thu May 25, 2006 4:17 pm

Do you expect me to convert from liters to gallons in my head?

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by Corlyss_D » Thu May 25, 2006 5:41 pm

The "real" price of gasoline: Gasoline cost 27 cents a gallon in 1949 compared to around $2.10 today.* How has the relative cost of buying gas changed over the last 50 years? Presented here are two tables computing the annual "real" cost using our five series, one in 2000 dollars, the current number used for real GDP, and the other in 1949 dollars. While the two tables show the same trends, they do give a different perspective.

Using the 2000 table and the CPI and the GDP deflator, we see that gasoline was most expensive in 1980 and 1981 and the cheapest in 1998 and 1999. Today, the real price using these two measures is at its approximate 53-year average for the CPI and about 10% above the average using the GDP deflator.

The other indices tell a different story. Let us look at relative cost to an unskilled worker to fill up using 1949 dollars. That year the 27 cents it cost for a gallon of gas, took a certain share of the worker's wage. The interesting question is, has the cost as a share or percent of the worker's wage increased or decreased over time? The table shows that for the wage rate and price of gasoline in other years, this cost has fallen. Since wages have increased faster than the price of gasoline by 2004, today an unskilled worker spends less than half as much, as a percent of wage, for a gallon of gasoline than the 1949 worker. The table shows that the $1.59 a worker paid in 2004 would be comparable to only 12 cents (in 1949 prices) if measured as a "share" of the wage.

When we use the GDP per capita, the cost has fallen faster. Looking at the table shows that a gallon of gasoline costs around 7.5 cents a gallon (in 1949 prices) if measured as a "share" of the GDP per capita. This is because in 1949, 27 cents was .015% of per capita GDP, while in 2004, $1.59 was .004%

Finally, looking at what share of GDP of gasoline, we see that in 1949 prices, it is about 4 cents. This means that a gallon gasoline was a seven times larger share of output in 1949 than it is today.

http://eh.net/hmit/compare/
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Post by Corlyss_D » Thu May 25, 2006 6:38 pm

I buy gas when the tank is empty, and I pay the price the vendor asks. So far, I don't much care what that price is. When I started driving, it was less than $.25/. If I sat around worring about how much more I pay for it now than I did then, I would have wasted time and I would still pay the price. So what's the point? Trying to get Congress to repeal the law of supply and demand?
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Febnyc
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Post by Febnyc » Fri May 26, 2006 6:55 pm

Here in New York State I am paying, for hi-octane, about $3.40/gallon. My wife, who has more sense than I and drives a car which runs on regular fuel, is paying $3.15 or so.

Just across the border in Connecticut it's about a nickel a gallon cheaper.

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Post by RebLem » Sat May 27, 2006 4:41 am

jbuck919 wrote:Do you expect me to convert from liters to gallons in my head?
No, that's why there are so many blanks in the headline. Use US gallons, imperial gallons, or liters @ your pleasure. Also, enter gasoline with whatever additives, diesel, or whatever your vehicle uses. I tried to make the template as universal as possible.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

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Post by RebLem » Sat May 27, 2006 4:46 am

Oh, btw, gasoline is much more expensive in Santa Fe than in Albuquerque because the blend that the DOE requires at 9,000+ ft (Santa Fe) is more highly refined than the blend they require at 5,000+ ft (Albuquerque).

My doorstep, per Google Earth, is at 5,108 ft above sea level.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

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Post by jbuck919 » Sat May 27, 2006 7:13 am

As a matter of fact, of course, I do know the exact conversion (math teacher, you know), and was just kidding. But for practical purposes a liter is somewhat more than a quart, so there are about four liters in a gallon, as I'm sure many of you already knew.

Well, I pay about $2.00 per gallon on post still while the Germans pay about $5.00. I'm even allowed to use my ration to buy coupons at military price that can be used off-post at German gas stations. It's called subsidies, and if you like and ever meet me, you are welcome to throw a rotten tomato at me.

I still don't drive from city to city without necessity. My underpowered car barely makes it on the Autobahn, and the train system is so good that I can't understand why anyone would use anything else. You have to give them a carrot as well as a stick.

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Post by Haydnseek » Sat May 27, 2006 8:02 am

On May 26 2006, I paid $2.839 USD a US gallon at Costco in Glen Burnie, MD USA for regular gasoline containing 10% ethanol that came from land that should have been used to grow food with farm machinery that used up more petroleum in the process than it generated in ethanol which was produced with the goal of reducing petroleum consumption.
"The law isn't justice. It's a very imperfect mechanism. If you press exactly the right buttons and are also lucky, justice may show up in the answer. A mechanism is all the law was ever intended to be." - Raymond Chandler

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Post by jbuck919 » Sat May 27, 2006 8:10 am

Haydnseek wrote:On May 26 2006, I paid $2.839 USD a US gallon at Costco in Glen Burnie, MD USA for regular gasoline containing 10% ethanol that came from land that should have been used to grow food with farm machinery that used up more petroleum in the process than it generated in ethanol which was produced with the goal of reducing petroleum consumption.
Never fear. Fusion power is just around the corner.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by Haydnseek » Sat May 27, 2006 8:37 am

jbuck919 wrote:Never fear. Fusion power is just around the corner.
And fission is already here. Enough of it could make hydrogen fuel from water a real option.
"The law isn't justice. It's a very imperfect mechanism. If you press exactly the right buttons and are also lucky, justice may show up in the answer. A mechanism is all the law was ever intended to be." - Raymond Chandler

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Post by jbuck919 » Sat May 27, 2006 9:07 am

Haydnseek wrote:
jbuck919 wrote:Never fear. Fusion power is just around the corner.
And fission is already here. Enough of it could make hydrogen fuel from water a real option.
I don't know you well enough to know whether or not you were joking, but I was. Neither fission nor fusion are realistic options for what the US military calls POVs (privately owned vehicles). Fission (in plain English, nuclear power plants) could divert a considerable amount of petroleum which is used to power the light bulbs in our house if poople had the sense to prioritize this over their asinine fear of nuclear power. Fusion is a goal that appears to be permanently elusive. Do you know of anything in the modern era that has been researched for 60 years without bearing any useful fruit? To achieve controlled fusion, one must be able to contain a fusion reaction in a vessel while expending less energy than is being produced to create the reaction in the first place. I don't know for a fact that this has been proved impossible, but I would not doubt it so if someone reported it to me.

But either way, cars require a self-contained chemical reaction to operate. Fortunately, the sun still shines.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Haydnseek
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Post by Haydnseek » Sat May 27, 2006 9:37 am

jbuck919 wrote:I don't know you well enough to know whether or not you were joking, but I was. Neither fission nor fusion are realistic options for what the US military calls POVs (privately owned vehicles). Fission (in plain English, nuclear power plants) could divert a considerable amount of petroleum which is used to power the light bulbs in our house if poople had the sense to prioritize this over their asinine fear of nuclear power. Fusion is a goal that appears to be permanently elusive. Do you know of anything in the modern era that has been researched for 60 years without bearing any useful fruit? To achieve controlled fusion, one must be able to contain a fusion reaction in a vessel while expending less energy than is being produced to create the reaction in the first place. I don't know for a fact that this has been proved impossible, but I would not doubt it so if someone reported it to me.

But either way, cars require a self-contained chemical reaction to operate. Fortunately, the sun still shines.
I'm aware that fusion may never be developed. Like you, I regret that nuclear power has been set back by irrational fears. I read somewhere that nuclear reactors might be able to produce the massive amounts of energy need to make liquid hydrogen fuel but I'm not well informed on this so I shouldn't have made any pronouncements about how realistic an option that would be.
"The law isn't justice. It's a very imperfect mechanism. If you press exactly the right buttons and are also lucky, justice may show up in the answer. A mechanism is all the law was ever intended to be." - Raymond Chandler

Dies Irae

Post by Dies Irae » Sat May 27, 2006 12:42 pm

The government of the United States of America will not switch to any alternate fuels (on a large scale) until every drop of petroleim has been used up. Not until there is no longer any petroleum source, anywhere, will this government do anything. "Paralysis by analysis" are the watchwords of america in this regard.

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Post by Corlyss_D » Sat May 27, 2006 12:52 pm

RebLem wrote:Oh, btw, gasoline is much more expensive in Santa Fe than in Albuquerque because the blend that the DOE requires at 9,000+ ft (Santa Fe) is more highly refined than the blend they require at 5,000+ ft (Albuquerque).
Another reason why refining capacity is the bottleneck - all the different boutique grades of gas the companies have to produce to satisfy EPA.
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Post by jbuck919 » Sat May 27, 2006 1:47 pm

Dies Irae wrote:The government of the United States of America will not switch to any alternate fuels (on a large scale) until every drop of petroleim has been used up. Not until there is no longer any petroleum source, anywhere, will this government do anything. "Paralysis by analysis" are the watchwords of america in this regard.
I think one is rather missing the point here. There is no alternative source of energy. Dead dinosaurs and archaic ferns are a blessing we might never have had. When that resource is gone, we are up to our necks in something that vaguely resembles unrefined petroleum.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by jbuck919 » Sat May 27, 2006 1:50 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
RebLem wrote:Oh, btw, gasoline is much more expensive in Santa Fe than in Albuquerque because the blend that the DOE requires at 9,000+ ft (Santa Fe) is more highly refined than the blend they require at 5,000+ ft (Albuquerque).
Another reason why refining capacity is the bottleneck - all the different boutique grades of gas the companies have to produce to satisfy EPA.
Do you know that for a fact (I have never heard this before)? I figured the lack of new refineries to be strictly (and imbecilically) a function of the NIMBY factor. I am seriously ignorant on this one and not baiting you.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by Corlyss_D » Sat May 27, 2006 2:03 pm

jbuck919 wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:
RebLem wrote:Oh, btw, gasoline is much more expensive in Santa Fe than in Albuquerque because the blend that the DOE requires at 9,000+ ft (Santa Fe) is more highly refined than the blend they require at 5,000+ ft (Albuquerque).
Another reason why refining capacity is the bottleneck - all the different boutique grades of gas the companies have to produce to satisfy EPA.
Do you know that for a fact (I have never heard this before)? I figured the lack of new refineries to be strictly (and imbecilically) a function of the NIMBY factor. I am seriously ignorant on this one and not baiting you.
Yes I know it for a fact. The two are related: there are literally dozens of specialty grades of gasoline that refineries have to produce to meet the varying state and local clean air requirements. People usually know that California's standards are the toughest in the country - that's why domestic and foreign cars are designed to meet Ca. standards. However, what a lot of folks don't realize is that just about every other cockamamie state and many localities have their won rules about what gas can or can't contain. There are few national standards beyond the EPA standards and no federal preeminence excluding state and local standards. The lash up with refinery capacity is this: the more of these varieties of gas they have to produce the less capacity there is to produce large volumes of the most common grades. When Katrina hit, refineries in this nation were producing at virtually full capacity. Take out a tenth of that capacity, or whatever the figure was, and you have an instant gas crisis.

That's another fact that many didn't realize even with Katrina's publicity: we don't have an oil shortage - the place is awash in oil - we have a shortage of refinery capacity, largely due to a combination of NIMBY and environmental activism, which has also been responsible for foreclosing to American oil companies drilling offshore, while not preventing other nations from drilling off our own shores. Cuba has just discovered oil in the waters of the Gulf and guess who's helping them stand up oil rigs in the precious Gulf ecosystem that Americans are forbidden to touch! China!
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Gregory Kleyn

Post by Gregory Kleyn » Sat May 27, 2006 5:25 pm

Febnyc wrote:Here in New York State I am paying, for hi-octane, about $3.40/gallon. My wife, who has more sense than I and drives a car which runs on regular fuel, is paying $3.15 or so.

Just across the border in Connecticut it's about a nickel a gallon cheaper.
Frank,

How many stars for the Dvarionas VC?

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Post by Febnyc » Sun May 28, 2006 6:30 am

Greg - thanks and apologies for not sending you an earlier report.

In short - a 5-star work. I've listened a few times already.

And, with a do-nothing Sunday in the offing - you've inspired me to hear it once again today.

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