Which composer scored the most beautiful music for the piano

paulb
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Which composer scored the most beautiful music for the piano

Post by paulb » Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:59 am

Beautiful can mean alot of things and no one will have the same idea of what beauty is. But feel free to look over your collection and think which 1 , 2, 3 composers you feel wrote the most beautiful, extend that to most interesting music for piano. Most beautiful, most interesting would in some way imply the greatest. Keep in mind when you name 2 or 3 composers that come to mind, you are excluding others. So its got to be the 2 or 3, maybe even just one, that really captivates you emotionally much more so than others.
Get the idea?
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jbuck919
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Post by jbuck919 » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:26 am

Chopin, Beethoven, Schumann somewhat in third place but wonderful still.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

IcedNote
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Post by IcedNote » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:32 am

My top 10:

1) Chopin
2) Chopin
3) Beethoven
4) Chopin
5) Debussy
6) Beethoven
7) Scriabin
8) Schumann
9) Chopin
19) Beethoven

:)

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Post by Teresa B » Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:01 am

Chopin, Beethoven and Brahms.

(I hate to leave out Rachmaninoff, Mozart and Debussy!) :wink:

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Post by DavidRoss » Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:10 am

1--Beethoven
2--Debussy
3--Waller
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Post by IcedNote » Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:11 am

Teresa B wrote:Chopin, Beethoven and Brahms.

(I hate to leave out Rachmaninoff, Mozart and Debussy!) :wink:

Teresa
Doh! Forgot about Brahms :oops:

-G
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premont
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Re: Which composer scored the most beautiful music for the p

Post by premont » Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:44 am

paulb wrote:Beautiful can mean alot of things and no one will have the same idea of what beauty is. .....the most beautiful, extend that to most interesting music for piano. .....would in some way imply the greatest. ..... maybe even just one, that really captivates you emotionally much more so than others.
Get the idea?
What really captivates me emotionally, is not always the most beautiful music. I would rather say, that the most expressive music captivates me the most. In first hand I would mention Beethoven, who´s music is everything from beautiful to the opposite, but always very expressive. If you had written "keyboard" instead of piano, I would say Bach first, who´s music always is abundant in expressive beauty, and Beethoven would be number two. The number three would be shared by many equally expressive competitors.

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Post by Lark Ascending » Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:20 am

Chopin, Ravel and Debussy
"Look here, I have given up my time, my work, my friends and my career to come here and learn from you, and I am not going to write a petit menuet dans le style de Mozart." - Ralph Vaughan Williams to Maurice Ravel

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Post by Corlyss_D » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:50 pm

Chopin, Brahms, Debussy.
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Post by Wallingford » Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:21 pm

GOTTA put in a vote here for GRIEG.
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That the things we never had
Never mattered we were always ok
Getting ready for Christmas day
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Brendan

Post by Brendan » Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:47 pm

Schubert, Chopin, Brahms

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Post by paulb » Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm

Lark Ascending wrote:Chopin, Ravel and Debussy
Just curious if you had to take along to an island, 2 of the 3?
I realize this thought of leaving one behind might be anguish to you. But it must be done.
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

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Post by Jack Kelso » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:37 am

A lot of folks have left off Schumann, but almost no one can leave Chopin off their lists.

Schumann is the greatest for that deep, philosophical personal expression---but I feel Beethoven is not far behind.

Chopin's popular and hugely enjoyable salon-style is lovely and lyrical; also Mozart, Schubert and Debussy have some beautiful things. The Liszt b-minor Sonata is his best, I believe. Brahms, too, has some fine piano works (esp. the op. 79).

Jack
"Schumann's our music-maker now." ---Robert Browning

val
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Post by val » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:41 am

Beethoven in first place. The 32 Sonatas are an universe. The same with the Diabelli Variations.

In second place I hesitate between Schumann and Debussy. Both composed extraordinary works and very personal: Schumann's Carnaval, the First Sonata, Fantasiestücke opus 12, Etudes Symphoniques, Kreisleriana, Fantasia, Humoresque or Debussy's Estampes, Masques, Images, Preludes, Etudes, are among the most sublime music written for the piano.

Then I would chose Brahms: the sad and so touching last pieces (opus 117, 118 and 119), the romantic 3rd Sonata, the extraordinary Händel Variations (the greatest after the Diabelli).

And Chopin, of course. My favorite works: the Noctunes, the Polonaise opus 44, the First and 4th Balades, the 24 Preludes.

In the XX century, in spite of composers such as Albeniz, Granados, Rachmaninov, the three great masters of the piano are, to me, Bartok (Sonata, En Plein Air, Suite opus 14), Prokofiev (Sonatas n. 6, 7 and 8), Ravel (Gaspard de la nuit, Sonatina, Miroirs).

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Post by Jack Kelso » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:43 am

Ooops! I forgot---only three.

1. SCHUMANN 2. BEETHOVEN

If there would be a third, then Chopin.

Jack
"Schumann's our music-maker now." ---Robert Browning

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Post by jbuck919 » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:27 am

I hope Jack will appreciate that I did not leave off Schumann, but did leave off Brahms. :)

For no particularly good reason, I was thinking solo music rather than concertos, but even on that basis Brahms deserves more than honorable mention. His solo piano music is just a bit less well known and a bit less a central part of his output, but it is a treasure. He was initially, like so-and-so and you-know-who, only really comfortable composing for his own instrument, and needed quite a long self- and other-training to achieve the heights he did with everything but piano music.

And if you include concertos, then doubtless you must include Mozart.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by Jack Kelso » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:41 am

jbuck919 wrote:I hope Jack will appreciate that I did not leave off Schumann, but did leave off Brahms. :)

For no particularly good reason, I was thinking solo music rather than concertos, but even on that basis Brahms deserves more than honorable mention. His solo piano music is just a bit less well known and a bit less a central part of his output, but it is a treasure. He was initially, like so-and-so and you-know-who, only really comfortable composing for his own instrument, and needed quite a long self- and other-training to achieve the heights he did with everything but piano music.

And if you include concertos, then doubtless you must include Mozart.
I too made choices based primarily on solo works, but I don't think it would have made any difference---perhaps in a list of 6 or 7......

Beethoven's 32 sonatas alone are a grand testament.

Yet Schumann created something new without emulating his predecessor: he freed piano music from its constraints and expectations of virtuosity, thus deepening and strengthening the expressive possibilities of the instrument. Other composers, like Mendelssohn, Chopin and Liszt (later Grieg, Tschaikowsky and Rachmaninoff) remained largely bound to a certain degree of virtuosity in the creation of their own music.

John, you don't have to convince me that you know and like Schumann's work----he is, after all, in many ways the Bach of the 19th century. (Hmm... Mendelssohn would be Telemann.... and Wagner---Handel).

And Brahms has some fine piano works.....I definitely prefer his to those of Busoni or Sibelius.:)

Jack
"Schumann's our music-maker now." ---Robert Browning

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Post by greymouse » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:20 am

My 3 favorite piano composers:

1. Brahms
2. Chopin
3. Ravel

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Post by Lark Ascending » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:15 pm

paulb wrote:Lark Ascending wrote:
Chopin, Ravel and Debussy


Just curious if you had to take along to an island, 2 of the 3?
I realize this thought of leaving one behind might be anguish to you. But it must be done.
I would take Chopin and Ravel.
"Look here, I have given up my time, my work, my friends and my career to come here and learn from you, and I am not going to write a petit menuet dans le style de Mozart." - Ralph Vaughan Williams to Maurice Ravel

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Post by paulb » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:22 pm

greymouse wrote:My 3 favorite piano composers:

1. Brahms
2. Chopin
3. Ravel
Delete post
Last edited by paulb on Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by erinmr » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:25 pm

Brahms

Rachmaninoff
Beethoven

I am very much in love with Brahms, but there is three as asked.

~Erin

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Post by paulb » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:31 pm

Lark Ascending wrote:
paulb wrote:Lark Ascending wrote:
Chopin, Ravel and Debussy


Just curious if you had to take along to an island, 2 of the 3?
I realize this thought of leaving one behind might be anguish to you. But it must be done.
I would take Chopin and Ravel.
Interesting. I was unfair to you, keep your 3, Chopin, Debussy, Ravel as equal. You are the only one, besides greymouse to mention Ravel.
You see I consider Ravel my first, followed very closely with Debussy.
With no other compser even closely following, maybe Grieg as honorable mention. This is my opinion with the greek ideals about beauty.
I don't own any Chopin and the only pieces from him that I "might like" are his polonaises, which I own no copy.
I find Chopin OK for a listen or 2 as a newbie, to classical, but it gets old fast. I prefer Grieg much more to Chopin.
The results in thsi topic line up exactly with GMG and Gramophone, Chopin and Beethoven tied for first place, with Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Debussy comming in following.
With Ravel in last place, tied with Grieg.
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

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Post by paulb » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:36 pm

erinmr wrote:Brahms

Rachmaninoff
Beethoven

I am very much in love with Brahms, but there is three as asked.

~Erin
You and i posted at the same time.
Your post makes even further confirmation of my survey results at 3 forums.
Beethoven and Chopin tied for first.
Rachmaninov is way down in the list.
I need to do a survey asking which piano music you find the most interesting/intreguing/facinating?
I'm thinking along the lines of second viennese school as first place. But feel free to palce Beethoven and Chopin back up in first place.
Its your opinions and preferences, and no one else.
btw I do not thing there is a Chopin or Beethoven cd in my 600 cd collection.
Each to his own I guess.
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

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Post by erinmr » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:45 pm

For the record, I prefer Grieg over Chopin as well. What is your favorite Ravel piano piece? I do not know much Ravel, but you have peeked my interest in him.

~Erin

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Post by paulb » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:27 pm

erinmr wrote:For the record, I prefer Grieg over Chopin as well. What is your favorite Ravel piano piece? I do not know much Ravel, but you have peeked my interest in him.

~Erin
No offense, but I could tell with your mention of Rachmaninov that you are relatively a newbie to classical.
If I may suggest, work your way though a tad of Schumann, Schubert, afterwards get to hear some Ravel.
Its not the way i arrived at ravel. In fact i only had this revelation as of ONE month ago. I've been at classical for 30 yrs, off and on. I'm totally committed since 2 yrs ago, and will remain so til death.
I can't go into speciafic of Ravel, works/recordings.
Except to say look up a copy of Gieseking i Ravel. I believe its still in print. After that we can take it to the next level.

Notice kent taylor's comments, which sums things up quite well.
"technical lapses" is correct.
You need to start with this set then move on to others i will recommend, later.
As I say Ravel is a revelation just in the past few weeks.

link


btw I do not own a copy of the Gieseking, after listening to it for yrs as a newbie.
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

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Post by Harvested Sorrow » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:02 am

Tough choice here...I'd say (in random order) Schuman, Beethoven, and Chopin. I hate to leave off Brahms but his piano music strikes me as more profound than beautiful (not to say the others aren't profound!)

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Post by Corlyss_D » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:19 am

erinmr wrote: What is your favorite Ravel piano piece? I do not know much Ravel, but you have peeked my interest in him.
There's a Pearl recording of Gieseking playing Ravel's Gaspar de la nuit that will take your breath away. Ravel was not the astounding colorist with a piano that Debussy was or that he was himself with an orchestra. But I really enjoy his piano version of his Le Tombeau de Couperin. For about $15 and shipping you can get Gieseking's Complete Piano Music of Ravel.
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Post by Ricordanza » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:54 am

paulb wrote: I don't own any Chopin and the only pieces from him that I "might like" are his polonaises, which I own no copy.
I find Chopin OK for a listen or 2 as a newbie, to classical, but it gets old fast. I prefer Grieg much more to Chopin.
On topics like this, I tend to stay out based on the concept of "to each his own." However, PaulB, you're really missing something if you ignore Chopin. In terms of pure sensual beauty, as well as full and inventive use of the piano as an instrument, Chopin remains the greatest composer for the piano. Perhaps, as a newbie, you're turned off by the complexity, but I urge you to really explore--listen more than once--the Barcarolle, Ballades 1 and 4, Scherzi 2 and 3, and the Polonaise Fantasy (for starters), and open your mind to this amazing music.

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Post by Jack Kelso » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:16 am

Ricordanza wrote:
paulb wrote: I don't own any Chopin and the only pieces from him that I "might like" are his polonaises, which I own no copy.
I find Chopin OK for a listen or 2 as a newbie, to classical, but it gets old fast. I prefer Grieg much more to Chopin.
On topics like this, I tend to stay out based on the concept of "to each his own." However, PaulB, you're really missing something if you ignore Chopin. In terms of pure sensual beauty, as well as full and inventive use of the piano as an instrument, Chopin remains the greatest composer for the piano. Perhaps, as a newbie, you're turned off by the complexity, but I urge you to really explore--listen more than once--the Barcarolle, Ballades 1 and 4, Scherzi 2 and 3, and the Polonaise Fantasy (for starters), and open your mind to this amazing music.
You know, Ricordanza, I asked myself the question----why does PaulB start a thread on piano music, when he doesn't even care much for one of the most important composers of the genre?

Next to Schumann, it was Chopin who developed the most idiomatic piano style of the Romantic Era. It seems that, while the former is more difficult in interpretation and understanding, Chopin is enjoyed by just about everyone!

Jack
"Schumann's our music-maker now." ---Robert Browning

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Post by Teresa B » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:22 am

paulb wrote: No offense, but I could tell with your mention of Rachmaninov that you are relatively a newbie to classical.
:? Did you not say you were a relative "newbie" also?

I also mentioned Rachmaninoff, and I'm far from a newbie. I don't believe Rach is the most profound, but he wrote some incredibly beautiful melodies, and he used the piano very effectively and powerfully.

Have you ever noticed that starting a sentence with "No offense, but..." invariably irritates the recipient of the comment?

All the best,
Teresa
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Author of the novel "Creating Will"

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Post by paulb » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:58 am

Jack Kelso wrote:

You know, Ricordanza, I asked myself the question----why does PaulB start a thread on piano music, when he doesn't even care much for one of the most important composers of the genre?

Next to Schumann, it was Chopin who developed the most idiomatic piano style of the Romantic Era. It seems that, while the former is more difficult in interpretation and understanding, Chopin is enjoyed by just about everyone!

Jack
Well I'll admit one purpose of the topic was to show how we can all be different, that we all are unique in fact. The general consensus of opinions that have been true for more than a century is only speaking in general, and does not represent the individual. The group opinion should not be considered as more important than the individual. The individual is in some cases, more important than the group. The group has its rights, but so does the unique individual. One should read unique as individuated, someone set apart from the group.
If you look over the few posts, you'll see the group has spoken its opinion, Chopin, Beethoven, Schumann, Schubert, Brahms, seem to be the most popular composers for solo piano, with Grieg , Debussy and Ravel always comming after.
I did this same topic on 2 other site, and Chopin, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms rank highest as well.
I'm not interested in whats most important to the group when that opinion clashes with my sensibilities of appreciation.
We are living in 2006, not 1906, not 1956. We all have access to the composers works in recorded form and now can better form opnions as to what is most important to us. Man is the same throughout history, yet slightly different in each generation.
I've never been attracted to chopin, in spite of gasps from a friend "you don't like Chopin?!!" in 1979 as I recall. Also someone wrote me a PM wgen I was a member at GMG, "you must be joking you don't care for Beethoven. Joking, right?" in disbelief, as he knows my intense commitment and deep love for classical music.
But so it is, our uniqueness is just as important as the group, if not more so in certain cases.
Its doubtful I'll lsiten to much Chopin in my life, I do want to know his Polonasises, via Ashkanazy. I recall those are wispful and delightful.
btw no one mentioned Granados, but I prefer much more Albinez. I also like Grieg. But I was trying to get at the composers that come closest to the greek ideal of beauty via the incredible instrument , the piano. The 2 composers that I identify with greek ideal of beauty is Ravel and Debussy, with considerations given to Chopin.
btw I respect greatly some of Chopin's works, others not so much, but feel Ravel and debussy offer a higher form of that ideal of beauty.
Of course we know Debussy and avel lived after Chopin, which of course is an advantage. And w/o Chopin as forerunner, its doubtful Ravel and Debussy would have achieved such high creative genius in solo piano.
I just don't feel drawn to Chopin with Debussy and Ravel near by.
btw I did recently have a revelation in Ravel's solo piano. Though that enlightenment had always been with me since my early days of classical, 1978,79,80, via Gieseking;s EMI set.
In the past 3 yrs I picked up 6 other Ravel recordings, and as of a month ago, the fullextent of Ravels' genius was unveiled to my hearing. This experience in 4 specific recordings.
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
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Post by paulb » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:06 am

Teresa B wrote:
paulb wrote: No offense, but I could tell with your mention of Rachmaninov that you are relatively a newbie to classical.


Have you ever noticed that starting a sentence with "No offense, but..." invariably irritates the recipient of the comment?

All the best,
Teresa
Poor judgement call on my part. Thanks for correcting my poor choice in expression. It does come across as negligence. Please accept an apology.
I do have many fond memories of listening to Rachmaninov with Richter in most of the Preludes, both sets. Listened to that Quintessense vinyl for days on end. I am not sure if that recording was ever released on cd.
Teresa you may be interested in Rachmaninov's trio, op9 I believe, with the Oistrakh trio, just re-released after 30 yrs OOP. has the wonderful Ravel as well. There are many beautiful and gripping passages in the Rachmaninov trio. .
Regards
Paul
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

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Post by Jack Kelso » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:42 am

Paul B---I hope you didn't take my question as a critique of the thread, as it is a highly interesting one!

It is certainly possible that a lover of piano music doesn't take to Chopin's style well. While Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Liszt, Brahms, Ravel, Debussy, Rachmaninoff, etc. all contributed heavily in other areas of composition, Chopin's whole genius expresses itself through that one instrument.....

I've found myself "discovering" certain composers later in life (Raff, Nielsen, Stanford and others), so maybe Chopin still stands a chance with you.....?!

Jack
"Schumann's our music-maker now." ---Robert Browning

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Post by greymouse » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:54 am

paulb,

You replied to my comment and deleted the post. I never got to read it - did you talk smack to me or something and then have a change of heart? :P

I give Brahms, Chopin, and Ravel as personal favorites, but I'm not sure it's in the spirit of the question. The "most interesting" or "greatest" may need to include Beethoven or Debussy for their great inventiveness, but my heart doesn't endorse that.

On the other hand, Ravel seems suspect because he is too derivative. He really steals a lot from Debussy and Lizst. But he improves on them so much. With Ravel, every single note is in the perfect place at the perfect time. It's uncanny and bewitching. I think Miroirs and Gaspard de la Nuit capture his genius best, but also the Sonatina and several other pieces.

Brahms it's hard not to respect practically everything. Chopin is obvious. So I stick by my first 3 thoughts.

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Post by Teresa B » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:00 am

paulb wrote:
Teresa B wrote:
paulb wrote: No offense, but I could tell with your mention of Rachmaninov that you are relatively a newbie to classical.


Have you ever noticed that starting a sentence with "No offense, but..." invariably irritates the recipient of the comment?

All the best,
Teresa
Poor judgement call on my part. Thanks for correcting my poor choice in expression. It does come across as negligence. Please accept an apology.
I do have many fond memories of listening to Rachmaninov with Richter in most of the Preludes, both sets. Listened to that Quintessense vinyl for days on end. I am not sure if that recording was ever released on cd.
Teresa you may be interested in Rachmaninov's trio, op9 I believe, with the Oistrakh trio, just re-released after 30 yrs OOP. has the wonderful Ravel as well. There are many beautiful and gripping passages in the Rachmaninov trio. .
Regards
Paul
No problem. I'll see about that recording--sounds very nice.

Teresa
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Post by erinmr » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:12 am

paulb wrote:
erinmr wrote:For the record, I prefer Grieg over Chopin as well. What is your favorite Ravel piano piece? I do not know much Ravel, but you have peeked my interest in him.

~Erin
No offense, but I could tell with your mention of Rachmaninov that you are relatively a newbie to classical.
If I may suggest, work your way though a tad of Schumann, Schubert, afterwards get to hear some Ravel.
Its not the way i arrived at ravel. In fact i only had this revelation as of ONE month ago. I've been at classical for 30 yrs, off and on. I'm totally committed since 2 yrs ago, and will remain so til death.
I can't go into speciafic of Ravel, works/recordings.
Except to say look up a copy of Gieseking i Ravel. I believe its still in print. After that we can take it to the next level.

Notice kent taylor's comments, which sums things up quite well.
"technical lapses" is correct.
You need to start with this set then move on to others i will recommend, later.
As I say Ravel is a revelation just in the past few weeks.

link


btw I do not own a copy of the Gieseking, after listening to it for yrs as a newbie.
Well, I suppose I'm not quite a "newbie", yet I know that I'm not nearly as experienced as many of you (hence my hanging around this board once in a while - hopfully I can glean some knowledge). However, you asked for the most beautiful piano music, and I do consider Rach's piano music very aesthetically pleasing. I particularly like how when Rachmaninoff is played well, the sound fills the room similar to that of an orchestra. I'm not talking loud, but full. However, his overly romantic sound can get soggy after a while, so Brahms remains in the top spot for me.

I'm not sure I follow you as far as the sequencing of Schumann, Schubert, then Ravel. I've always found that if I want to listen to Schumann, going straight to Schuman is the best path. So the same would apply with any composer. Maybe that is just me, though. I am one that likes to dive right in...

Thanks for the recomendations!

~Erin

paulb
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Post by paulb » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:21 am

Jack Kelso wrote:Paul B---I hope you didn't take my question as a critique of the thread, as it is a highly interesting one!

It is certainly possible that a lover of piano music doesn't take to Chopin's style well. While Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Liszt, Brahms, Ravel, Debussy, Rachmaninoff, etc. all contributed heavily in other areas of composition, Chopin's whole genius expresses itself through that one instrument.....

I've found myself "discovering" certain composers later in life (Raff, Nielsen, Stanford and others), so maybe Chopin still stands a chance with you.....?!

Jack
WOW, you mean there is such a thing as classical music forum that has a high level of tolerance. Just when i had given up all hope along come you guys. I was very hesitant to re-register here, but took tiny steps at first, test the waters...for sharks and other sea monsters :-) I really feel like its safe to swim out now. The water is GREAT :-)
Jack, yes its very possible i will reconnect with Chopin in certain works of his down the road. I'm sure of it. And i really should say the Etudes are quite fun and enjoyable. The Polonaises i really need to hear. And how could I forget the Waltzes. Maybe I went overboard in my comments about Chopin. But i do have a deep emotional experience with Ravel that I miss out with on Chopin. Debussy is quite exceptional, and could not in any way make a compare between Ravel and Chopin. Both cause me to enter a realm that is like no others.
Now I didn't mention Webern and Schonberg, that is for another topic, obviously neither can be thought of as greek ideal of beauty.
I'll look into Ashkenazy's Polonaises and Waltzes sometime this yr.
Kindly
Paul
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

paulb
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Post by paulb » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:27 am

greymouse wrote:paulb,

You replied to my comment and deleted the post. I never got to read it - did you talk smack to me or something and then have a change of heart? :P

I give Brahms, Chopin, and Ravel as personal favorites, but I'm not sure it's in the spirit of the question. The "most interesting" or "greatest" may need to include Beethoven or Debussy for their great inventiveness, but my heart doesn't endorse that.

On the other hand, Ravel seems suspect because he is too derivative. He really steals a lot from Debussy and Lizst. But he improves on them so much. With Ravel, every single note is in the perfect place at the perfect time. It's uncanny and bewitching. I think Miroirs and Gaspard de la Nuit capture his genius best, but also the Sonatina and several other pieces.

Brahms it's hard not to respect practically everything. Chopin is obvious. So I stick by my first 3 thoughts.
Hi Grey, yes be true to your own feelings. I attempted to phrase the question around the greek ideal of beauty, however in general one defines it. Heck not even Plato got the bottom of the subject, much less will we.
So I excluded using the even more elusive word, "great/grestest" as that is even more personal. I know how the group has decided, Chopin, then of course Beethoven and the entire romatic period, with Ravel and Debussy comming in the middle of the list, ahead of Grieg, Bartok, Albinez, Granados, Rachmaninov.
I love the way you describe Ravel's wonder-works. You do indeed acknowledge his genius, and who knows down the road you may hear Ravel anew with various recordings I'll mention in another topic, soon.
Take Care
Paul
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

paulb
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Post by paulb » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:51 am

Teresa B wrote:

No problem. I'll see about that recording--sounds very nice.

Teresa
Here is the link...(editor I forgot how to shorten the link within the bars, I'll practice today to recall how its done)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001D ... nce&n=5174

You'll see my short comment on the cd, the lone review.
I should say there is passage for cello one of the most beautiful ever written for chanmber, and played by the greatest ever cellist, Sviatoslav Knushevitsky.
Hope you like the cd.
btw do you see that 0/3 votes as "this review was not helpful". I know 2 of them are from "the other forum" maybe the 3rd rascal is from there as well. they automatically place a "No" vote on all my reviews, the day after I post one. They go through all my reviews automatically and place a "NO".
I also found more "friends" with my comments I made about Ligeti on amazon.
Kinda childish, but speakers volumes about certain classicphiles character and their taste in composers.
I'll stop there..
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

annleaha
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New Classical Piano

Post by annleaha » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:48 am

Hi everyone,

Has anyone heard of The 5 Browns? I just discovered them & they are absolutely amazing! What a talented family! If you like classical music, you HAVE to hear this group. They have just put out a new album called No Boundaries & I have been listening to it nonstop since I picked it up. Check out the track listing:


1 Rhapsody in Blue
2 Malaguena from Andalucia Suite
3. Simple Gifts/Going Home
4 Shaker Hymn
5 Going Home
6 Full Stride Ahead (Rag)
7 Feria from Rapsodie Espagnole
8. Gargoyles, Op. 29
9 III. Allegro moderato
10 IV. Presto feroce
11 Hungarian Rhapsody No. 6
12 Variations on a Theme of Paganini
13 Danzas Argentinas, Op. 2
14 I. Danza del viejo boyero (Dance of the Old Cowherd)
15 II. Danza de la mozo donosa (Dance of the Delightful Young Girl)
16 III. Danza del gaucho matrero (Dance of the Artful Herdsman)
17 Valse and Romance
18 Valse
19 Romance
20 The Firebird (from the 1911 Version)

I just joined their i-squad & found out they are on tour now too. I hope I can get some tickets soon. The i-squad seems pretty neat. You earn Bonus Points and then trade them in for merchandise from The 5 Browns. If you are interested in checking out their music visit this link (hope it works for ya!)
http://i-squad.com/ The 5 Browns.html
http://www.the5browns.com/

BWV 1080
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Post by BWV 1080 » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:36 am

For solo piano music, the list is:

Beethoven
Chopin
Liszt
Brahms
Debussy
Messiaen
Schoenberg
Bartok
Ligeti
Carter

paulb
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Post by paulb » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:03 pm

BWV 1080 wrote:For solo piano music, the list is:

Beethoven
Chopin
Liszt
Brahms
Debussy
Messiaen
Schoenberg
Bartok
Ligeti
Carter
BWV interesing list, a very broad and wide spectrum of styles, shows good open mind about music.
Lets see I;ve given up on all Messiaen, a certain reviewer's comments on Messiaen's St Francsis opera has revealed somethings I was not aware at the time on Messiaen, but now makes sense. I have 6 of his orch cds, and one piano solo/Peter Serkin. Afraid nothing doing anymore.
The only ones I appreciate on your list is Carter, MOST CERTAINLY (many hate Carter), Schonberg, all things Schonberg for me, Bartok, if only we could get a real fine recording other than Bartok's own. Kocisis is allright, nothing spectacular....and of course Debussy, with chopin a future possibliity.
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

BWV 1080
Posts: 4451
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:05 pm

Post by BWV 1080 » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:31 pm

paulb wrote:
BWV 1080 wrote:For solo piano music, the list is:

Beethoven
Chopin
Liszt
Brahms
Debussy
Messiaen
Schoenberg
Bartok
Ligeti
Carter
BWV interesing list, broad very a wide spectrum of styles, shows good open mind about music.
Lets see I;ve given up on all Messiaen, a certain reviewer's comments on Messiaen's St Francsis opera has revealed somethings I was not aware at the time on Messiaen, but now makes sense. I have 6 of his orch cds, and one piano solo/Peter Serkin. Afraid nothing doing anymore.
The only ones I appreciate on your list is Carter, MOST CERTAINLY (many hate Carter), Schonberg, all things Schonberg for me, Bartok, if only we could get a real fine recording other than Bartok's own. Kocisis is allright, nothing spectacular....and of course Debussy, with chopin a future possibliity.
Paul,

Are you familiar with Ligeti's etudes?

Corlyss_D
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Post by Corlyss_D » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:57 pm

paulb wrote:WOW, you mean there is such a thing as classical music forum that has a high level of tolerance. Just when i had given up all hope along come you guys. I was very hesitant to re-register here, but took tiny steps at first, test the waters...for sharks and other sea monsters :-) I really feel like its safe to swim out now. The water is GREAT :-)
Yes, hard to believe but true. After a year of expecting people to behave like adults here, we - Lance and I - have done a lot to remove the most obstreperous of belligerent posters from our little haven here. We have been dismissed as dull and boring by some of them who think flame wars are the real purpose of a forum like ours, but we like it this way. After the furor over some of the banishings, we've settled into a fairly polite group. As long as we don't get complaints about the behavior of specific posters, we won't interfere. We have reserved the right to eject without due process anyone we have banned before and who sneaks back in under an alias. I don't remember you but I wasn't here myself for many years.
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

greymouse
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Post by greymouse » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:04 pm

BWV 1080,

I like your list! I can agree with most those, except I haven't heard Carter or Ligeti piano music.

I disagree on the Messiaen so far. I am very much a fan of his music. I love the organ works, the quartet, orchestral pieces, etc. But the only piano stuff I've heard is the Catalogue d'oiseaux, and to me it sounds like ... a catalogue. Each bird has its own little piano chords to go with it, and it's not at all interwoven. And it goes on forever. It sounds to me less like music, and more like an impressionist experiment or a nature diary or something.

Any better works by him you can recommend? Thanks.

karlhenning
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Post by karlhenning » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:19 pm

paulb wrote:. . . Bartok, if only we could get a real fine recording other than Bartok's own. Kocisis is allright, nothing spectacular....
But, Paul! -- how do I reconcile this assessment of Kocsis with the fact that you recently recommended Kocsis to me for the piano concerti, hey? :-)

Cheers,
~Karl
Karl Henning, PhD
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston, Massachusetts
http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/
http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/
Published by Lux Nova Press
http://www.luxnova.com/

paulb
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Location: baton rouge

Post by paulb » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:45 pm

karlhenning wrote:
paulb wrote:. . . Bartok, if only we could get a real fine recording other than Bartok's own. Kocisis is allright, nothing spectacular....
But, Paul! -- how do I reconcile this assessment of Kocsis with the fact that you recently recommended Kocsis to me for the piano concerti, hey? :-)

Cheers,
~Karl
Good question Karl, glad you asked. Only you could draw up such a question. think you have me cornered in a contradiction do you....
Well i'll admit I do not own the Kocsis in Bartok's solo piano. O just know from my "research" that's all. So don't count it as a landed fish just yet.
Kocsis in the pc's you will find a carefully taken approach, that works "for the most part". You do realize Bartok can esaily trip us a/any pianist in the first 2, don't you?
Well Kocsis takes a very wise decision in not being too spontaneous. I enjoy his recordings, as much for Ivan Fischer and his wonderful Budapest festival Orch.
Kovacevich may be a bit more exciting, and Colin Davis surprised me this time, however the BBC gives Davis the juice to bring it off. I believe the london is on one of the 3 with kovacevich/Davis.
I ussually prefer the BBC over the London SO.
Hope that clears up the issue in the contradiction.
i may yet get the Kocsis, at a good used price.
Bronfman/Salonen was good, but prefer the above 2. I'm trying to keep most of my recordings down to 2 per work. Rarely do I keep a 3rd recording.
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

paulb
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Location: baton rouge

Post by paulb » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:56 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
paulb wrote:WOW, you mean there is such a thing as classical music forum that has a high level of tolerance. Just when i had given up all hope along come you guys. I was very hesitant to re-register here, but took tiny steps at first, test the waters...for sharks and other sea monsters :-) I really feel like its safe to swim out now. The water is GREAT :-)
Yes, hard to believe but true. After a year of expecting people to behave like adults here, we - Lance and I - have done a lot to remove the most obstreperous of belligerent posters from our little haven here. We have been dismissed as dull and boring by some of them who think flame wars are the real purpose of a forum like ours, but we like it this way. After the furor over some of the banishings, we've settled into a fairly polite group. As long as we don't get complaints about the behavior of specific posters, we won't interfere. We have reserved the right to eject without due process anyone we have banned before and who sneaks back in under an alias. I don't remember you but I wasn't here myself for many years.
GREAT work Corlyss. I really have seen good mannered folks here. I hope not to get on nerves here, as I seem to have a knack for. Who knows maybe some things are better left unsaid.
No you don't remember me, I did leave on my own. If anyone has issues with something I said, I'll reword it, or delete it.
I think you can see with my respect I showed to Teresa that I'll own up when I'm clearly in the wrong with regard to attitudes. I even think my recommend of the Rachmnainov/Ravel wuill more than make up for my poor choice of words towrads her today. A cd she might not be aware of until I made mention, though eventually would have.
Karl knows me well, a bit odd he'd say, maybe neurotic at times, but that I keep my cool.
besides as you know I pretty much allign with many of your views on world issues, which we need to stand together and fight the dummies :-)
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

Steeltemplar
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Post by Steeltemplar » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:26 pm

I really would consider myself a novice to classical music. It has only been in the past year or so that I have truly discovered its wonder. Prior to that, I primarily listened to heavy metal and trance. I still listen to both, just not as much. However, that is digressing. My main point is that I am not as versed on the great piano composers as I should like to be.

So here are my three favorites at the moment, in no particular order:

Chopin
Mozart
Beethoven

Corlyss_D
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Post by Corlyss_D » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:32 pm

karlhenning wrote:
paulb wrote:. . . Bartok, if only we could get a real fine recording other than Bartok's own. Kocisis is allright, nothing spectacular....
But, Paul! -- how do I reconcile this assessment of Kocsis with the fact that you recently recommended Kocsis to me for the piano concerti, hey? :-)

Cheers,
~Karl
:lol: :lol: :lol: We don't demand consistency? :wink:
Corlyss
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