Help me! Sonata Form!

Locked
metaldemonix

Help me! Sonata Form!

Post by metaldemonix » Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:24 pm

In my college music theory class we are discussing sonata form, but I am having a really hard time identifying pieces that are in sonata form and need help picking out a piece for the class so that I can analyze it...its a big part of my grade and I would appreciate any suggestions for pieces that I can use.

thanks,
Metaldemonix

ch1525
Posts: 991
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:53 pm
Location: New Orleans
Contact:

Post by ch1525 » Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:16 pm

We had to analyze a Sonata Form piece in one of my classes. We used the first movement of Mozart's Symphony No.25 in G minor. It's pretty straightforward.

greymouse
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:42 pm
Location: MI

Post by greymouse » Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:23 pm

Hi metaldemonix,

You are in luck because there are many famous pieces in sonata form. Symphonies, String Quartets, Sonatas are all written in multi-movement form with the first movement being Sonata form. So any such piece is probably in sonata form, as long as it's the first movement.

If you are going to analyze for class, probably choose a piano sonata since you only have to look at two staves. Any piano sonata by Mozart or Haydn should do as long as it's the first movement (starts with I. in the book).

Just find out what key it's in, and be on the lookout for the modulation to the dominant. Usually there is some padding or filler between key changes, then the next melody starts boldly and clearly. Repeat bar starts the development, and you can find the recap by looking for the first theme in the tonic returning.

Alban Berg

Re: Help me! Sonata Form!

Post by Alban Berg » Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:26 pm

metaldemonix wrote:In my college music theory class we are discussing sonata form, but I am having a really hard time identifying pieces that are in sonata form and need help picking out a piece for the class so that I can analyze it...its a big part of my grade and I would appreciate any suggestions for pieces that I can use.

thanks,
Metaldemonix
Though greymouse's statement is generally true, it is not invariably true (as I think gm acknowledged). But more to the point, I could easily give you answers, but you would learn nothing. It would be more helpful to you and me both if you explained a bit why you are having trouble recognizing sonata forms. Once you know what to hear it shouldn't be hard at all, but unless I understand the source of the difficulty I can't really be of much help.

RebLem
Posts: 9117
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 1:06 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA 87112, 2 blocks west of the Breaking Bad carwash.
Contact:

Post by RebLem » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:01 pm

I consulted Aaron Copland's book What to listen for in Music. It recommends the study of the following works as examples of sonata form:

1 ) All the Beethoven symphonies.
2 ) All the Brahms symphonies.
3 ) Haydn: Sym 102.
4 ) Mozart: Sym 41 "Jupiter."
5 ) Schumann: Sym 4 (one-movement form).
6 ) Mendelssohn: Sym 4.
7 ) Tchaikovsky: Sym 6 (slow movement at end).
8 ) Franck: Sym in D Minor (cyclic form).
9 ) Mahler: Sym 2.
10) Sibelius: Sym 4.
11) Prokofiev: Sym 5.
12) Roussel: Sym 3.
13) Shostakovich: Sym 10.
14) Honegger: Sym 3.
15) Vaughan Williams: Sym 4.
16) Harris: Sym 3 (in one movement).
17) Piston: Sym 4.
18 )Copland: Sym 3.
19) Schuman, W: Sym 6 (in one movement)
20) Beethoven: Waldstein Sonata.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

jbuck919
Military Band Specialist
Posts: 26867
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Stony Creek, New York

Post by jbuck919 » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:22 pm

This is actually a bit controversial and I had a (rather famous) college professor who went to great lengths to convince his students that there was no such thing as sonata from. Perhaps the best theoretical work that deals with compositions that are historically in multi-movement sonata form (symphonies, sonatas, chamber works, concertos) is "Sonata Forms" by Charles Rosen.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

arsantiqua
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Post by arsantiqua » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:28 pm

When I took music theory and we studied Sonata-form, the two workhorses we worked off of were the complete Muzio Clementi Sonatinas (for piano) and Mozart's Piano Sonatas.

Pretty much all of the FIRST MOVEMENTs of the above will check out as Sonata-Allegro form (but don't take my word for it, look for yourself to doublecheck for variants).

Final movements of the above are sometimes sonata form, but just as often likely to be rondos or some hybrid like the sonata-rondo.

Good luck!
<u><font color="blue"><a href="http://www.fanpop.com/spots/classical-music">The Classical Music Spot</a></font></u>
Social bookmarking for classical music news, videos, links and more.

SamLowry
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:22 pm

Post by SamLowry » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:07 pm

Charles Rosen (excerpted from The Classical Style):

Sonata form could not be defined until it was dead. Czerny claimed with pride around 1840 that he was the first to describe it, but by then it was already part of history. ... In any case, the 'sonata' is not a definite form like a minuet, a da capo aria, or a French overture: it is, like the fugue, a way of writing, a feeling for proportion, direction, and texture rather than a pattern.

An account of the sonata in purely tonal terms does not falsify the way a classical sonata moves, but it obscures the significance of the form, which must ultimately be considered inseparable from the form itself. There is no question that every sonata-exposition goes from the tonic to the dominant (or to a substitute for the dominant, relative major or mediant and sub-mediant being the only possible ones) but I cannot believe that a contemporary audience listened for the change to the dominant and experienced a pleasant feeling of satisfaction when it came. The movement to the dominant was part of musical grammar, not an element of form. Almost all music in the 18th century went to the dominant: before 1750 it was not something to be emphasized; afterward, it was something that the composer could take advantage of. This means that every 18th century listener expected the movement to the dominant in the sense that he would have been puzzled if he did not get it; it was a necessary condition of intelligibility.

MahlerSnob
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 5:31 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Post by MahlerSnob » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:40 pm

This is actually a bit controversial and I had a (rather famous) college professor who went to great lengths to convince his students that there was no such thing as sonata from.
That's a controversial view? I thought that was pretty widely accepted. The truth of the matter is that sonata form is not a strict forumla. There is a lot of room for variation within the form, and no two of them are exactly the same in their construction. Of course many are very similar [see: Haydn, Joseph], but no two are exactly the same. In fact the best Sonata forms, in my opinion, are those that mess with the form so that the music becomes more exciting and you don't know what will happen next. The supreme example is Beethoven 9, where we start in a completely ambiguous tonality (thank you, Leonard Bernstein) and slowly go into this D minor that never really quite gets to Allegro and doesn't really have a clear exposition, development, or recap. Wonderful music.
-Nathan Lofton
Boston, MA

WWBD - What Would Bach Do?

anasazi
Posts: 603
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:49 pm
Location: Sarasota Florida

Post by anasazi » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:44 am

What is your instrument metaldemonix? Piano, violin.. Whatever it is you probably have a Sonata somewhere that you have worked on. The first movement of most any classical sonata will be in Sonata-Allegro form. It is just a basic three part structure, albeit with some variation, it changed some from Haydn to Bruckner. But if you have the printed music, then you already have what you need to study it.
"Take only pictures, leave only footprints" - John Muir.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests