Greatest Austro-Germanic composer of High-Late Romanticism?

Greatest Austro-Germanic composer of High-Late Romantic Period?

Richard Wagner
4
11%
Anton Bruckner
4
11%
Johaness Brahms
23
62%
Gustav Mahler
5
14%
Richard Strauss
1
3%
Hugo Wolf
0
No votes
Max Reger
0
No votes
Englbert Humperdinck
0
No votes
Max Bruch
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 37

popagano
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Greatest Austro-Germanic composer of High-Late Romanticism?

Post by popagano » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:13 am

I'm curious who you think the greastest Austro-Germanic composer is of the High-Late Romantic Period.

(I personally would say Gustav Mahler, but he can be very depressing to listen to, and you might need a brake from him once in a while.)

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Post by val » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:49 am

To me, it is impossible to answer with a single name.

If we are talking about operas, then my choice would be Wagner.

If we referred to Symphonic music, I would chose Bruckner.

If we mean the Lied, my choice is Wolf.

If it is chamber music, piano music, concertos, choral music, then Brahms would be my favorite.

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Post by david johnson » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:51 am

von suppé !!

dj

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Post by DavidRoss » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:13 am

In a perverse way I agree with Val: If we're talking about opera, then Strauss. If the symphony, then Mahler and Brahms. If song, then Mahler, Strauss, and Brahms. For concertos, Brahms. For chamber music, Brahms. For best whorehouse ivory tinkler, Brahms.

I guess that clinches it. The answer is: Korngold...er...Brahms!
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Re: Greatest Austro-Germanic composer of High-Late Romantici

Post by jbuck919 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:19 am

popagano wrote:I'm curious who you think the greastest Austro-Germanic composer is of the High-Late Romantic Period.

(I personally would say Gustav Mahler, but he can be very depressing to listen to, and you might need a brake from him once in a while.)
Welcome to the board, by the way; I haven't found your few previous posts but I hope you consider youself welcome.

Yes, my first question would be how is one defining one's terms. And I assume that Humperdinck is a facetious choice. In my opinion, the greatest composer of the Romantic period whose language was German is Brahms, but very often things that seem self-evident to me are often still points of debate here. We have a respected poster who has made a case for Schumann, who is of course not late Romantic, but Brahms is the chronological boundary of true Romanticism and is in the same family of composers as Schumann, so a comparison is worth at least a shot. Everything coming after Brahms is hard to characterize with a single term.

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Post by Barry » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:44 am

It was difficult for me to pick against Bruckner, whose music is so majestic to me, but I had to go with Brahms. He may have been the most consistantly great composer every.
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Re: Greatest Austro-Germanic composer of High-Late Romantici

Post by popagano » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:08 am

jbuck919 wrote:
popagano wrote:I'm curious who you think the greastest Austro-Germanic composer is of the High-Late Romantic Period.

(I personally would say Gustav Mahler, but he can be very depressing to listen to, and you might need a brake from him once in a while.)
Welcome to the board, by the way; I haven't found your few previous posts but I hope you consider youself welcome.

Yes, my first question would be how is one defining one's terms. And I assume that Humperdinck is a facetious choice. In my opinion, the greatest composer of the Romantic period whose language was German is Brahms, but very often things that seem self-evident to me are often still points of debate here. We have a respected poster who has made a case for Schumann, who is of course not late Romantic, but Brahms is the chronological boundary of true Romanticism and is in the same family of composers as Schumann, so a comparison is worth at least a shot. Everything coming after Brahms is hard to characterize with a single term.
First of all Brahms music is far more chromatic then at first realized, I remember reading a Schoenberg article, were Arnold made the case that chromatically, Brahms was actually quite a significant pioneer; Dispite that he didn't extend tonalities frame, as did Wagner. Brahms extended the range of traditional music through length and breathe in ways, that unfortunately, Schumann never had a chance to. I thought the idea of this poll was rather simply and I do not see what the fuss is about, simply choose your favorite, if you can't pick one, then I'm sorry you have such ambigious taste.

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Re: Greatest Austro-Germanic composer of High-Late Romantici

Post by jbuck919 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:15 am

popagano wrote:
jbuck919 wrote:
popagano wrote:I'm curious who you think the greastest Austro-Germanic composer is of the High-Late Romantic Period.

(I personally would say Gustav Mahler, but he can be very depressing to listen to, and you might need a brake from him once in a while.)
Welcome to the board, by the way; I haven't found your few previous posts but I hope you consider youself welcome.

Yes, my first question would be how is one defining one's terms. And I assume that Humperdinck is a facetious choice. In my opinion, the greatest composer of the Romantic period whose language was German is Brahms, but very often things that seem self-evident to me are often still points of debate here. We have a respected poster who has made a case for Schumann, who is of course not late Romantic, but Brahms is the chronological boundary of true Romanticism and is in the same family of composers as Schumann, so a comparison is worth at least a shot. Everything coming after Brahms is hard to characterize with a single term.
First of all Brahms music is far more chromatic then at first realized, I remember reading a Schoenberg article, were Arnold made the case that chromatically, Brahms was actually quite a significant pioneer; Dispite that he didn't extend tonalities frame, as did Wagner. Brahms extended the range of traditional music through length and breathe in ways, that unfortunately, Schumann never had a chance to. I thought the idea of this poll was rather simply and I do not see what the fuss is about, simply choose your favorite, if you can't pick one, then I'm sorry you have such ambigious taste.
Brahms is the greatest compose on that list, if that's all that you meant, and I'll go back and vote for him. But don't expect this to go unchallenged. There is an opinionated bunch here.

The essay you refer to is "Brahms the Progressive." It was designed to counteract the prevailing opinion, still widely expressed, that Brahms was a conservative composer committed to a procrustean bed of traditional forms. It was not designed to deny that Brahms was a phenomenon, indeed the culmination, of the high Romantic period.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by karlhenning » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:17 am

Schoenberg!
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Post by karlhenning » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:19 am

A phenomenon, indeed the culmination, of the high Romantic period:

Schoenberg!
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Post by jbuck919 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:23 am

karlhenning wrote:A phenomenon, indeed the culmination, of the high Romantic period:

Schoenberg!
Karl, he's a new member, and possibly a young one. Just because Halloween is around the corner does not mean we should be trying to scare him away.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
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Post by karlhenning » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:25 am

John, if you don't see Schoenberg for the Romantic he always was, you are in denial :-)
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Post by popagano » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:44 am

The Waltz theme from the third movement of Bruckner's 5th is my favorite waltz. Has anyone else notice the simularity between popagano's aria's in Die Zauberflute and some of the lieder in Mahler's 'Wunderhorn'. And I have a question for Karl Henning, are you a 'misunderstood genious' are something, because your 'curt' reply, I could hardly understand, perhaps you might 'dane' to elaborate!

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Post by jbuck919 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:09 am

popagano wrote:The Waltz theme from the third movement of Bruckner's 5th is my favorite waltz. Has anyone else notice the simularity between popagano's aria's in Die Zauberflute and some of the lieder in Mahler's 'Wunderhorn'. And I have a question for Karl Henning, are you a 'misunderstood genious' are something, because your 'curt' reply, I could hardly understand, perhaps you might 'dane' to elaborate!
Er, I thought your screen name delightfully facetious, but you must realize that the character in The Magic Flute (Zauberfloete for want of an umlaut) is spelled Papageno (from Papagei, the German word for parrot). We don't usually correct spelling around here, but I thought you would rather want to make note of this particular correction.

On the other hand, I don't know Wunderhorn, so you're one up on me that way.

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Post by popagano » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:24 am

That is rather unfortunate that I have even misspelled it in my user name, well, I suppose its for the best in the end, I did have a copy of Klemperers 'The Magic Flute' that had been remastered by Abbey Road Technology on the (EMI) label. I so much loved the rendering even more then Bohm's on (DG). I have a question, is it possibly to discuss serious things without people getting, pompous and close-minded. Many people who delight in 'high-art' have awfully 'big-heads', it is rather funny in my oppinion. I am rather average and do not mined admitting it. But I still find myself fortunate, because I have truely experienced great rapture through music and other things that most people would simply dismiss.

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Post by karlhenning » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:34 am

Well, but this is a thread about Austro-Germanic composers of the High-Late Romantic Period.

Pomposity is part of the message :-)

Very well, I will let a Dane elaborate.

Cheers,
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Post by popagano » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:52 am

'DANE' SORRY DEIGN? I dont know, but I disagree, compositions are meant to be felt, what would make anyone thing that arrogance has any place in whether you feel connected with a preticular composer, or you don't, its that simply, many things are actually quite simply, but anytime theirs the slightest need for intellect, people run with it until there in need of having their head deflated. Look at Wagner, if you think I like the man and his self-rightous attitude, I would sooner laugh at him. But his music is breath-taking.

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Post by karlhenning » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:03 pm

No, but music is meant to be heard, to be sure.

There seems to me question enough as to whether we are all hearing the same thing. The question becomes impossible, if we try to determine what any piece of music "means" for us to feel.

Cheers,
~Karl
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Post by Sapphire » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:30 pm

Provided the people who post here are a random sample of the classical music population you would expect it to be between Brahms and Wagner, with Brahms the likely winner. The others on the list don't stand a chance. Some are a joke.

It might have been more interesting if other nationalities had been included (Tchaikovsky immediately springs to mind). It would also be more interesting if the voting system allowed the first 3 of one's choice to be ranked.

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Post by greymouse » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:48 pm

I voted for Brahms, and I think only Wagner or Mahler can come close. Schoenberg is more interesting than half the composers on this list.

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Re: Greatest Austro-Germanic composer of High-Late Romantici

Post by Corlyss_D » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:04 pm

popagano wrote:I personally would say Gustav Mahler
Me too. But it's not a field I play in. I don't resonate with any of the Teutonic Bombast unless I'm in a desperate and needy state.

Welcome to the boards, Popagano. How's the bird-catching biz these days? Kick your shoes off and set a spell.
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Post by jbuck919 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:42 pm

Saphire wrote: It might have been more interesting if other nationalities had been included (Tchaikovsky immediately springs to mind). .
:roll: Please don't make it more complicated than it already is.

If you look at the results, it is Brahms by more than a length followed by Wagner and then Mahler. (Mahler? Why on Earth is he being mentioned in the same breath as the other two?)

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Post by Brahms » Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:15 pm

Brahms epitomizes greatness in all music -- not just "high Romanticism." Why this emerges as a point of contention remains mysterious.

Brahms was wise to leave the opera genre to Wagner, so that once and for all Wagner would prove that opera is a dying art. In this sense, Brahms was more forward looking than even Schoenberg could prognosticate: Brahms knew that opera was dead even before opera had died.

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Post by paulb » Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:41 pm

I , along with one other, voted for Wagner.
just to hear Gustav Neidlinger sing the role of Alberich in the 52 and 53 Ring's is enough to get my vote. And we're not talking the beautiful parts in Parsifal and Tristan, with Modl.
Clearly some moving music for voice and orchestra.

I happen to think Brahms is a better composer than Beethoven as others point out. The vc is great but only under the condition of David oistrakh playing it.
The Brahms pc2 is also quite interesting. I only know his sym 1, which is OK. I can't recall hearing 2-4.
I like Strauss' Elektra. But thats not enough to get my vote.
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Post by Barry » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:07 pm

paulb wrote:I happen to think Brahms is a better composer than Beethoven as others point out.....
I said Brahms was arguable the most consistatly great composer. I'd say the best of Beethoven was better than the best of Brahms, but that Brahms had fewer lesser works than Beethoven. They're my two favorite composers, but if I had to pick one, it would be Beethoven. Those symphonies (save the first two) have always been the ultimate musical accomplishment to me.
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Post by jbuck919 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:32 pm

Brahms wrote:Brahms epitomizes greatness in all music -- not just "high Romanticism." Why this emerges as a point of contention remains mysterious.

Brahms was wise to leave the opera genre to Wagner, so that once and for all Wagner would prove that opera is a dying art. In this sense, Brahms was more forward looking than even Schoenberg could prognosticate: Brahms knew that opera was dead even before opera had died.
Welcome to the board. My goodness, AFAIK, we've never had a day like this, welcoming this many new members. Our mods are going to be in a tizzy. :)

Howeve, I am going to start out with a polite disagreement. Brahms actually sought out for a period of time an appropriate subject/text/potential libretto he could make into an opera. His failure to ever follow through is related to his failure to find his ideal text, and while this now passes fact and enters the realm of speculation, I have to think that Brahms would never have been satisfied unless he had a libretto strraight from Goethe or even Shakespeare. It took lesser but still genius lights like Verdi to have the nerve to allow Shakespeare to be adopted for the sake of opera. On the other hand, maybe I'm assuming too much. Brahms' favorite author for day-to-day reading was the German romantic novelist Jean-Paul Richter, about whom I know nothing except that I have seen his works on college library bookshelves. In the end, nobody really knows what was going through Brahms' mind in this (or any other) matter, but he did not dismiss out of hand the idea that he might write an opera.

And it is simply incorrect that opera died out as an art at or before that time. The next generation would produce several operas that are still part of the standard repertory, it being the case that no generation has produced very many, vascillations in production trends being what they are. Currently there is s trend toward productions of newer works for their own sake, even though it is widely assumed they will not become part of the permanent international repertory. I think it is a healthy trend. But no, opera did not die with Fidelio, or Parsifal.
Last edited by jbuck919 on Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Gurn Blanston » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:27 pm

Well, I voted, but I am delighted to see that I didn't actually need to. :D

Was Brahms the greatest composer of all time? Likely not. Was he the greatest composer in the context of the question posed (whether they are on the list of choices or not)? No contest.

Hmmm... Brahms had a go at D minor once in a while, didn't he? ;D

8)
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Re: Greatest Austro-Germanic composer of High-Late Romantici

Post by Alberich » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:29 pm

popagano wrote:I'm curious who you think the greastest Austro-Germanic composer is of the High-Late Romantic Period.

(I personally would say Gustav Mahler, but he can be very depressing to listen to, and you might need a brake from him once in a while.)
Yes, true - Mahler was into hydraulics.

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Post by Opus132 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:41 pm

val wrote:To me, it is impossible to answer with a single name.

If we are talking about operas, then my choice would be Wagner.

If we referred to Symphonic music, I would chose Bruckner.

If we mean the Lied, my choice is Wolf.

If it is chamber music, piano music, concertos, choral music, then Brahms would be my favorite.
Well, i'll make it easier for myself. Since chamber music is my favored form i'll just vote Brahms... :D

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Re: Greatest Austro-Germanic composer of High-Late Romantici

Post by Opus132 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:46 pm

popagano wrote: First of all Brahms music is far more chromatic then at first realized
Chromaticism is over-rated.

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Post by Brahms » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:48 pm

Opus132 wrote: Since chamber music is my favored form i'll just vote Brahms... :D
Succinct . . . . . . . and correct.

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Post by karlhenning » Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:02 am

paulb wrote:I , along with one other, voted for Wagner.
just to hear Gustav Neidlinger sing the role of Alberich in the 52 and 53 Ring's is enough to get my vote.
Yes, but you have ever played the weathervane to the latest 60-second sound-clip, Paul :-)

Cheers,
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Post by paulb » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:36 am

karlhenning wrote:
paulb wrote:I , along with one other, voted for Wagner.
just to hear Gustav Neidlinger sing the role of Alberich in the 52 and 53 Ring's is enough to get my vote.
Yes, but you have ever played the weathervane to the latest 60-second sound-clip, Paul :-)

Cheers,
~Karl
No, but i did manage this morning to make it through the first 2 minutes of a brahms sonata for piano and voplin/David oistrakh, Frieda Bauer/Praga/live 1972. That was Brahms sonata nr 1, there is a nr3 on the disc as well....no thankyou. I've had this 6 cd Praga set for 6 yrs and finally decided based on Brahms praise here, that I ought at least give it the ol boyscout try.
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Post by DavidRoss » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:49 am

One go at a two-minute sound clip of one movement hardly qualifies for a merit badge.

I like you very much, Paul. I wish you could see how pronouncements like the above destroy your credibility as a guide to good music.
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Post by paulb » Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:47 pm

DavidRoss wrote:One go at a two-minute sound clip of one movement hardly qualifies for a merit badge.

I like you very much, Paul. I wish you could see how pronouncements like the above destroy your credibility as a guide to good music.
I have repeatable said here, that I do not set my self up a THE Censor Of the Musical Arts. Of course my expressive nature comes across that way, and I'm working to change my offensive mannerisms. As it does shed a poor image on my opinions, they become like tumbleweeds blowing in the wind, with no one giving any consideration.
What I guess is going on is that I've always felt the weight of oppression of the romantic standards, sounds that never really did much for me, and so is like a reaction inside me built up over the decades, a public forum allows me to vent these fumes.
"what do you mean you do not care much for composer X,Y, and even Z!!!" Seems to be some voice of
Look , honestly I see a growing division between the 2 major camps in classical music. Lets not make our divergences of opinions any more than what they are, just personal opinions. We should look to what music acts as bridges to our camps, and come together in friendly conversation.
There are schisms, conflicts, of all sorts taking place in every area on the world stage.
There is some mention of the world being in the early stages towards WW3. This may or may not be true. So with amiable intents and in a spirit of comaraderie, lets embrace each others differences that will make classical music fulfill its true purpose and eventual destiny.
Which is what?

I've hinted at this sense of purpose many times here and have little to say.
Yes i will promise to keep in ck my comments on the romantics. A promise broken more often than kept, , maybe a good 2007 resolution.
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

Gurn Blanston
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Post by Gurn Blanston » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:40 pm

paulb wrote:
DavidRoss wrote:One go at a two-minute sound clip of one movement hardly qualifies for a merit badge.

I like you very much, Paul. I wish you could see how pronouncements like the above destroy your credibility as a guide to good music.
I have repeatable said here, that I do not set my self up a THE Censor Of the Musical Arts. Of course my expressive nature comes across that way, and I'm working to change my offensive mannerisms. As it does shed a poor image on my opinions, they become like tumbleweeds blowing in the wind, with no one giving any consideration.
What I guess is going on is that I've always felt the weight of oppression of the romantic standards, sounds that never really did much for me, and so is like a reaction inside me built up over the decades, a public forum allows me to vent these fumes.
"what do you mean you do not care much for composer X,Y, and even Z!!!" Seems to be some voice of
Look , honestly I see a growing division between the 2 major camps in classical music. Lets not make our divergences of opinions any more than what they are, just personal opinions. We should look to what music acts as bridges to our camps, and come together in friendly conversation.
There are schisms, conflicts, of all sorts taking place in every area on the world stage.
There is some mention of the world being in the early stages towards WW3. This may or may not be true. So with amiable intents and in a spirit of comaraderie, lets embrace each others differences that will make classical music fulfill its true purpose and eventual destiny.
Which is what?

I've hinted at this sense of purpose many times here and have little to say.
Yes i will promise to keep in ck my comments on the romantics. A promise broken more often than kept, , maybe a good 2007 resolution.
Paul, my friend, someone essentially said this already.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne,
sondern lasst uns angenehmere
anstimmen, und freudenvollere.

O friends, not these sounds!
Rather let us take up something more
pleasant, and more joyful.

If you are true to what you wrote there, you will enjoy these words, despite the fact that they are the opening lyrics of Beethoven's 9th Symphony...

8)
Regards,
Gurn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my opinion, I may be wrong
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
- HL Mencken

paulb
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Post by paulb » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:52 pm

Ahh Gurn, its now that I realize Beethoven is my friend afterall.
I wish I could like his music.

I think Beethoven wrote that poem as a invatation for all men to unite in brotherly love. Can't argue with that. Can I take his poem without the music?

Gurn , as you can see I'm that same old %%#**&!!! I was over at GMG. :)
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

Werner
CMG's Elder Statesman
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Post by Werner » Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:53 pm

Two ever so slight corrections:

Gurn: the poem "Ode To Joy" is not exactly the opening lyric for the Ninth Symphony but occurs well after the beginnig ot the fourth movement.

Paul: the author of the poem is not Beethoven - although we can take it for granted that he was in agreemdnt with its sentiment, so you can still consider him your friend - but Friedrich von Schiller, one of the great German poets and writers of the late 18th century.
Werner Isler

Länzchen
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Post by Länzchen » Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:23 pm

I had the understanding that Beethoven himself added those words which Gurn Blanston quoted to Schiller's An die Freude

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne,
sondern lasst uns angenehmere
anstimmen, und freudenvollere.

jbuck919
Military Band Specialist
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Location: Stony Creek, New York

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:49 pm

Länzchen wrote:I had the understanding that Beethoven himself added those words which Gurn Blanston quoted to Schiller's An die Freude

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne,
sondern lasst uns angenehmere
anstimmen, und freudenvollere.
It is not a question of adding words to a (quite awful) poem, but of writing a reciitative, which is all that passage is.

We've had a thread about blind spots, and (to me) obviously one of Beethoven's was his obsession with setting this, er, poem by Schiller. Of course there is no second guessing the outcome, one of the masterpieces of asll time, but let's not fool ourselves. Schiller was not Shakespeare, or even Goethe. If I were to make a compariosn, he was to Goethe as Longfellow was to Whitman.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Länzchen
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Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:57 pm

Post by Länzchen » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:36 pm

I don't think Schiller is bad at all, but you're comparing him to Goethe after all :) ...and you are right of course , I was just pointing out that Beethoven did doch write those words.

IcedNote
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Location: NYC

Post by IcedNote » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:43 pm

I voted Brahms, but I am too tired to say why.

G'night, CMG.

-G
Harakiried composer reincarnated as a nonprofit development guy.

jbuck919
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Post by jbuck919 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:17 am

Länzchen wrote:I don't think Schiller is bad at all, but you're comparing him to Goethe after all :) ...and you are right of course , I was just pointing out that Beethoven did doch write those words.
I would not be the first one to make a case that the greatest poetry is in contradiction to possibilities of musical setting. Schubert's "Ganymede" (to a text by Goethe) is an attempt to set a truly great poem to music, and it falls slightly short. Ballade-like passages and intentional songs from Goethe and Shakespeare not to mention numerous minor poets worked much better for him, or any serious composer of art songs. And yes, I know there are obvious exceptions, especially among the Lieder of Schumann, who might as well have been the same person as Heine.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Sapphire
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Post by Sapphire » Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:34 am

paulb wrote:Ahh Gurn, its now that I realize Beethoven is my friend afterall.
I wish I could like his music.
Frank Zappa quote "Most people wouldn't know good music if it came up and bit them in the ass"

Paul. At least it's a start. You are getting there! Have you tried Beethoven's Cello & Piano Sonata No. 3, or Archduke Piano Trio, or String Quartet No 14, or Appasionata. (There ain't nuffin like it!).

Cheers.


Saphire

paulb
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Post by paulb » Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:47 am

Saphire wrote:
paulb wrote:Ahh Gurn, its now that I realize Beethoven is my friend afterall.
I wish I could like his music.
Frank Zappa quote "Most people wouldn't know good music if it came up and bit them in the ass"

Paul. At least it's a start. You are getting there! Have you tried Beethoven's Cello & Piano Sonata No. 3, or Archduke Piano Trio, or String Quartet No 14, or Appasionata. (There ain't nuffin like it!).

Cheers.


Saphire
Saph I've come to the conclusion that there are so few people in our land that truly love classical, so like its a good thing you are commited to classical, in which branch/era.
Where others have been dumbfounded as to why i can't seem to enjoy Beethoven, I'm just as amazed at their passion for the music. We both are staring at each other with such inflection :roll: / :roll:
Which is a more mature reaction than :twisted: / :evil: ...towards each other.
I hereby, on behalf of the modernist camp declare a permanent peace treaty with the romantic camp. And none of those few day deals like in the mideast. This is the real deal.
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

Opus132
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:42 am

Post by Opus132 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:49 am

paulb wrote: Where others have been dumbfounded as to why i can't seem to enjoy Beethoven
What a crock.

The reason you don't seem to enjoy Beethoven is the same reason why Robert Newman should not be taken seriously.

You are both asses... :lol:

paulb
Posts: 1078
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Post by paulb » Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:58 pm

Opus132 wrote:
paulb wrote: Where others have been dumbfounded as to why i can't seem to enjoy Beethoven
What a crock.

The reason you don't seem to enjoy Beethoven is the same reason why Robert Newman should not be taken seriously.

You are both asses... :lol:
If by my confession that i lack all and any desire or wish to hear anything from beethobven, that i be so labeled "an ass'
Then so be it.
I'll be that donkey upon which Pettersson and Schnittke ride. :wink:
Psalm 118:22 The Stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This is the Lord's doing , it is marvelous in our sight.

Jack Kelso
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Location: Mannheim, Germany

Post by Jack Kelso » Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:50 am

Another opinion poll----this time it's an all-too-obvious device to pit the Wagnerians against the Brahmsians and vice-versa by eliminating Beethoven, Schubert and Schumann from the cast of characters.

By the way, the "high Romantic" (1830 to circa 1853) was NOT the "late-Romantic". So I'll treat this as only the latter.

Some of the choices are a joke (Reger, Humperdinck, Wolf) and should have at least included:

Liszt---is considered to be of the German school (mother-language was German, not French or Hungarian!). His symphonies and tone-poems are part of the "Neo-German" movement.

Joachim Raff (1822-1882) was half German-Swiss (mother) and half South German (Württemburg) (father) and a very popular and important composer of his time (symphonies, operas, concerti, chamber music, etc.)

Brahms regarded Felix Draeseke (b. Coburg) as his "greatest rival" in the symphony, and they are four very fine works indeed!

So, with the playing field thus clarified, I can vote for the "greatest/most popular" composer of German-Austrian origin since the time of Beethoven and Schumann.

As defined, the mantle almost universally should fall on Brahms for most things, Bruckner equal to him but only in the symphonic sphere.

Nothing is absolute when it's about art, so don't forgot that Herbert Weinberger, the famous and respected music critic of the mid-20th century, wrote:

"The greatest symphonist of the 19th century, after Beethoven of course, was born in Votkinsk, Russia in 1840."

Have fun!
Jack
"Schumann's our music-maker now." ---Robert Browning

jbuck919
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Post by jbuck919 » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:05 am

Bruckner equal to Brahms as a symphonist? Brahms, who appreciated Wagner ("Do you think I am such a clod as not to realize that Meistersinger is a mastepiece?") though Bruckner lauguable. The ability to get from the beginning to the end in great forms does not equate to genius.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Eetu Pellonpää
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Post by Eetu Pellonpää » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:33 am

I didn't vote, as I know only half of the names on the list. But from those which I know, Gustav Mahler's symphonies and "Das Lied Von Der Erde" have been the most affecting pieces of music for me.

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