Well, how was I supposed to know?

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jbuck919
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Well, how was I supposed to know?

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:46 pm

Members who have seen my posts for a while know that I do not exactly go out of my way to find ingratiating items that are outside the common repertory or by one-shot-johnny composers. Secondary status usually ends up being everything it is cracked up to be, and I have rarely been "disappointed" that way.

Just now over XM radio I heard Max Bruch's Second Symphony, a work I have never seen referred to here by even our most ardent encyclopedists. It is, um, good. :shock: Please, someone, tell me I'm not losing it.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Ralph
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Post by Ralph » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:02 pm

Here's my favorite recording of Bruch's second symphony:

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Post by RebLem » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:13 pm

One of my Bruch faves is Das Lied von Der Glocke (The Lay of the Bell), an oratorio on a text by Schiller which compares the phases of a human life with the various steps in the casting of a bell. Well worth getting.

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Post by DavidRoss » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:34 pm

"How was I to know?"

Start by shedding the arrogance that imprisons you behind a wall of prejudice. Recognize that others just might know something of value which you don't. Accept their offers graciously instead of rejecting them with sneering disdain. Love yourself enough to get the healing you need, instead of venting your self-hatred on others. No doubt you've been harshly judged and internalized those painful judgments. The path to healing and freedom lies not in reactive judgmentalism, but rather through acceptance, forgiveness, open-mindedness, and faith.

Fare thee well.
"Most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." ~Leo Tolstoy

"It is the highest form of self-respect to admit our errors and mistakes and make amends for them. To make a mistake is only an error in judgment, but to adhere to it when it is discovered shows infirmity of character." ~Dale Turner

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either." ~Albert Einstein
"Truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it; but, in the end, there it is." ~Winston Churchill

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jbuck919
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Post by jbuck919 » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:42 pm

DavidRoss wrote:"How was I to know?"

Start by shedding the arrogance that imprisons you behind a wall of prejudice. Recognize that others just might know something of value which you don't. Accept their offers graciously instead of rejecting them with sneering disdain. Love yourself enough to get the healing you need, instead of venting your self-hatred on others. No doubt you've been harshly judged and internalized those painful judgments. The path to healing and freedom lies not in reactive judgmentalism, but rather through acceptance, forgiveness, open-mindedness, and faith.

Fare thee well.
Just like David. Always into the witty spirit of things. Truly the guardian of the lighter side of our nature here.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by IcedNote » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:22 pm

DavidRoss wrote:"How was I to know?"

Start by shedding the arrogance that imprisons you behind a wall of prejudice. Recognize that others just might know something of value which you don't. Accept their offers graciously instead of rejecting them with sneering disdain. Love yourself enough to get the healing you need, instead of venting your self-hatred on others. No doubt you've been harshly judged and internalized those painful judgments. The path to healing and freedom lies not in reactive judgmentalism, but rather through acceptance, forgiveness, open-mindedness, and faith.

Fare thee well.
I don't know your age, David -and not that I completely disagree with you- but that's what us younguns call "hardcore." :shock:

-G
Harakiried composer reincarnated as a nonprofit development guy.

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Post by Werner » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:12 pm

Looks to me, John, that you're not "losing it" but rather gaining something if you've discovered a work you didn't know and find you like it.
Werner Isler

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Post by Gurn Blanston » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:32 pm

Well, JB, don'tcha just hate it when that happens? :)

I have about 90% of Bruch's orchestral works and take a great deal of pleasure in them. He was in the Brahms camp stylistically, and although he didn't have the depth of talent that our Dear Johann did, he was pretty darned fine. Once you get beyond the g minor VC (but there's a reason it is overplayed, it is very good), you find not only his symphonies, but a couple other VCs, and some absolutely lovely works for instruments such as clarinet and cello. He was a master of the Adagio. This might be a good time to explore outside the boundaries you have set for yourself. Pick up a few disks and give them a fair listen.

8)
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Gurn

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Post by Ralph » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:52 pm

I've always loved Bruch's violin concerto and Scottish Fantasy.
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jbuck919
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Post by jbuck919 » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:55 pm

Gurn Blanston wrote:Well, JB, don'tcha just hate it when that happens? :)
You know me too well (yes, I hate it when this happens). :) Just to redeem myself, I also heard Spohr's Concerto for Two Violins over XM for the first time the other day and while I have to grudgingly admit that the Bruch is really excellent, the Spohr was merely not awful. Whew!

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by GK » Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:03 am

I recently heard and liked Bruch's Clarinet and Viola Concerto.

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Re: Well, how was I supposed to know?

Post by keaggy220 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:32 am

jbuck919 wrote:Members who have seen my posts for a while know that I do not exactly go out of my way to find ingratiating items that are outside the common repertory or by one-shot-johnny composers. Secondary status usually ends up being everything it is cracked up to be, and I have rarely been "disappointed" that way.

Just now over XM radio I heard Max Bruch's Second Symphony, a work I have never seen referred to here by even our most ardent encyclopedists. It is, um, good. :shock: Please, someone, tell me I'm not losing it.
It's great that you are still finding fresh listening experiences! This means I have years and years of good music to look forward to. :lol:

jbuck919
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Re: Well, how was I supposed to know?

Post by jbuck919 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:23 am

keaggy220 wrote:
jbuck919 wrote:Members who have seen my posts for a while know that I do not exactly go out of my way to find ingratiating items that are outside the common repertory or by one-shot-johnny composers. Secondary status usually ends up being everything it is cracked up to be, and I have rarely been "disappointed" that way.

Just now over XM radio I heard Max Bruch's Second Symphony, a work I have never seen referred to here by even our most ardent encyclopedists. It is, um, good. :shock: Please, someone, tell me I'm not losing it.
It's great that you are still finding fresh listening experiences! This means I have years and years of good music to look forward to. :lol:
I hope you would have that anyway. I don't expect any younger person to use my steadfast ways as a model. :)

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Gary
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Post by Gary » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:48 am

While I'm familiar with most of his works for violin and orchestra, I've yet to hear any of the symphonies. Will check them out one of these days. John, I recall MaestroDJS was a major fan of Bruch. I'm sure he shares your enthusiasm for his second symphony. :)

jbuck919
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Post by jbuck919 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:28 am

Gary wrote:While I'm familiar with most of his works for violin and orchestra, I've yet to hear any of the symphonies. Will check them out one of these days. John, I recall MaestroDJS was a major fan of Bruch. I'm sure he shares your enthusiasm for his second symphony. :)
Well, I was thinking of Dave when I mentioned our "encyclopedists" (which I did not intend pejoratively). I don't remember references to Bruch, but I'm not surprised that they were there.

What I don't understand, and I know how naive this is going to sound, is why such works of stature seem never to be programmed for live performance if they are still sufficiently alive for multiple CD representations. (I am tempted to add "instead of that hackneyed piece of shlock....." but I'd probably be mentioning someone's favorite composition.) Now somebody will come back and tell me that the Bruch Second is performed all over the world all the time and I just didn't know about it. :)

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by diegobueno » Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:26 pm

Jbuck

You know, it's only a matter of time before you discover Sibelius and come here moaning about how could you have remained ignorant of the 7th Symphony all these years.

The road to Damascus lies before you. Don't hold back. You know you're going to find it sooner or later.
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jbuck919
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Post by jbuck919 » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:42 pm

diegobueno wrote:Jbuck

You know, it's only a matter of time before you discover Sibelius and come here moaning about how could you have remained ignorant of the 7th Symphony all these years.

The road to Damascus lies before you. Don't hold back. You know you're going to find it sooner or later.
I'm not likely to "discover" Sibelius through the work that has been my main blockage to him. How anybody can consider that good imitation of a street-sweeper coming from the distance a masterpiece will likely remain as beyond me as it has always been.

I did happen to catch Tapioca, excuse me, Tapiola, the other day, and it at least is in the not awful category, which is something I can't say about the Seventh Symphony, or even about the famous and endless "Finlandia." (Was there a famous theme there? Sorry, I fell asleep before it came in.)

The Glens Falls library has a nice collection of Bruckner and I think I'll make him a project again, but folks, I'm not likely to smile with self-satisfaction because I suddently discover that I love Big Brother.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by diegobueno » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:29 pm

The more you fight it, the harder it's going to be when you inevitably fall.

"Sooner or later, Jean is gonna get ya.
Sooner of later, Sibelius gonna win..." 8)
Last edited by diegobueno on Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Gary » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:40 pm

jbuck919 wrote:Well, I was thinking of Dave when I mentioned our "encyclopedists" (which I did not intend pejoratively). I don't remember references to Bruch, but I'm not surprised that they were there.
Here they are. :)

You may have to scroll a bit to find his posts.

Link 1

Link 2

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Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:55 am

I'm probably duplicating Gary's references, but here are 3 that I dug up without any effort. There's some good stuff here. All you have to do to find more is use the search feature to and plug in Bruch AND symphonies.

http://classicalmusicguide.com/phpBB2/v ... symphonies

http://classicalmusicguide.com/phpBB2/v ... symphonies

http://classicalmusicguide.com/phpBB2/v ... symphonies
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Post by Jack Kelso » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:13 am

The Bruch Second Symphony I've known for almost thirty years, from a fine German radio recording. I love the second (of three) movements. Yep, the work lacks a scherzo---and Max is having some trouble generating dramatic force in the first movement, can't seem to "let himself go" in the third. But that slow movement is up there with the g-minor violin concerto.

Also recommended: the late-Romantic symphonies of Draeseke and Brahms' good friend, Friedrich Gernsheim (4 symphonies apiece). After all, Brahms regarded Draeseke as his greatest competition in that form.

Jack
"Schumann's our music-maker now." ---Robert Browning

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Post by DavidRoss » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:41 am

jbuck919 wrote:What I don't understand...is why such works of stature seem never to be programmed for live performance if they are still sufficiently alive for multiple CD representations.
Perhaps because music directors know they have to serve a paying public which mostly has no taste of its own and disapproves of anything outside the annointed canon by Mozart and the three Bs.
"Most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." ~Leo Tolstoy

"It is the highest form of self-respect to admit our errors and mistakes and make amends for them. To make a mistake is only an error in judgment, but to adhere to it when it is discovered shows infirmity of character." ~Dale Turner

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either." ~Albert Einstein
"Truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it; but, in the end, there it is." ~Winston Churchill

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Jack Kelso
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Post by Jack Kelso » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:50 am

DavidRoss wrote:...music directors know they have to serve a paying public which mostly has no taste of its own and disapproves of anything outside the annointed canon by Mozart and the three Bs.
Hmm....now where have I heard that before---"Beethoven, Berlioz and Bruckner...?!" I'm sure glad that jingle isn't rampant in Germany. :)

Tschüß!
Jack
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Post by karlhenning » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:11 am

Berlioz is far, far from overdone here in the States, anyway, Jack! I am looking keenly forward to La damnation de Faust at Symphony this Saturday coming!

Cheers,
~Karl
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Post by Jack Kelso » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:18 am

karlhenning wrote:Berlioz is far, far from overdone here in the States, anyway, Jack! I am looking keenly forward to La damnation de Faust at Symphony this Saturday coming!

Cheers,
~Karl
Oh, no Karl---that was my revised form of the Bülow-jingle----nothing against Berlioz!

By the way, end of February we're going to hear Berlioz' "Herold In Italy" in Mannheim (with Schumann's "Manfred" Overture and Mendelssohn's "Italian" Symphony).

Enjoy your Berlioz, too!

Tschüß!
Jack
"Schumann's our music-maker now." ---Robert Browning

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Post by karlhenning » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:48 am

Jack Kelso wrote:By the way, end of February we're going to hear Berlioz' "Herold In Italy" in Mannheim (with Schumann's "Manfred" Overture and Mendelssohn's "Italian" Symphony).
Great program, Jack!

Cheers,
~Karl
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Re: Well, how was I supposed to know?

Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:49 pm

keaggy220 wrote:It's great that you are still finding fresh listening experiences! This means I have years and years of good music to look forward to. :lol:
You bet. Especially as you push your timeline back to the Baroque and Classical periods. Sixty years ago, "early music" was Mozart and Haydn. Today, early music is 750-1600. The Baroque period has been especially welcoming to those of us who don't care for "modern" classical. Labels like Naxos, Hyperion, Alia Vox, Erato, etc. have liberated hundreds if not thousands of compositions from dusty libraries to the delight of millions. And then there's the joys of "historical" recordings, i.e., just about anything recorded before the age of stereo began in the early-mid 50s.

You have a lifetime of enjoyment ahead of you.
Corlyss
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