Media Danse Macabre

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Media Danse Macabre

Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:48 pm

June 07, 2006
Media Danse Macabre
By Tony Blankley

The Marine incident, and its aftermath, at Haditha tells us much more about the media than it does about the Marines. And what it tells us ought to outrage us to the core.

On every radio and television show I appeared on last week (and all I observed) in which this topic came up, without exception at least one of the media people immediately attempted to implicate not just the still-presumed-innocent Marines, but the American military's leadership and methods in general.

The "Drive By Media" (Rush Limbaugh's scientifically accurate description) has already started to report this story in a manner that is likely to do vast damage that may last for several years to the morale (and possibly recruitment) of our military. It will create a propaganda catastrophe of strategic proportions in our mortal struggle with radical Islam and its terrorist spear point.

And all this is being done by journalists who are seemingly oblivious to the consequences of their acts.

President Bush noted the extraordinary damage that reported events at Abu Ghraib caused and continue to cause. One can only imagine what the radical Islamist propagandists and recruiters will do with the Haditha incident -- especially since they will merely have to accurately quote from major United States and European newspapers and television news broadcasts. Is this any way to fight a war?

It is commonplace to observe that since the dawn of man -- and currently -- in the crucible of battle, warriors sometimes cannot contain their emotions and their violent actions. It is amazing our troops act as civilized as they do in combat.

It is particularly commendable of our American troops that they willingly go into battle under such restrictive rules of engagement that they are required to constantly risk their own lives in order not to offend civilians/terrorists(?) until they are almost sure they are really combatants.

No other military force in history has been so tightly limited in its defensive actions. And probably no other military force has been sufficiently disciplined to maintain such restrictive rules in the heat of combat. God bless our troops -- if not necessarily the policy that so restricts them.

For the parents, wives, husbands and children of our young warriors who are killed because they followed the restrictive rules and didn't fire first, this is a damned bitter pill to swallow -- whatever the geopolitical wisdom of it.

But what further cuts is to listen to media people casually perpetrate libel against not just the still-presumed-innocent Marines but against our services more generally. To see the gleam in the eyes of reporters happily cackling on about "other possible incidents" -- about which they know not whether they even exist -- is to be filled with a fury that we have a system of journalism that permits people with such mentalities to poison the minds of the world with their malice.

Of course if an American soldier, sailor, Marine or airman is found by a court martial made up of seasoned officers with a practical understanding of the exigencies of combat to have violated the standards of combat, he or she must face American military justice. But in time of war, there is no reason why military censorship should not be enforced to shroud the carrying out of justice from the eager eyes and ears of enemy propagandists -- domestic and foreign.

Pending the implementation of such a policy, journalists should sharply limit their reporting to the bare established facts, preferably reported once on page A36. (You know, the way they report Democratic Party scandals.)

But in the lunatic asylum that is today's America-at-war journalism, one possibly unfortunate event opens a floodgate of over-reporting, misreporting and just plain lying. Nothing is too harsh or too untrue to say about our military by these (fill in the blank).

At journalism conferences, the question is often brought up whether a journalist should see him- or herself as an American first or a journalist first. Often the consensus is that they are journalists first.

I wonder how many of them would report a story if it would mean the death of their own child. And would any of those reporters who would be journalists first in even that appalling instant cheerfully misreport a story in order to cause the death of their child? I suspect virtually none would.

If only they loved their country's young and willing warriors as much as they loved their own children.

But the journalists today are too swept up in their own danse macabre to even notice the murderous consequences of their own malfeasance -- or to hear the demands of simple decency.

Copyright 2006 Creators Syndicate
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... cabre.html
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Post by Ralph » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:57 pm

What garbage.

First, the author suggests that censorship in wartime can prevent disclosure of court martial proceedings against accused service members. That is legally, indeed constitutionally, impossible but apparently the fact checkers didn't bother to learn that.

I heard the same crap at the time of My Lai. Soldiers sometimes commit excesses. Really too bad but it's war and, anyway, the media is making too big a deal out of it.

The overwhelming majority of combat-seasoned personnel do not commit atrocities and most people fully understand that. The majority of cops don't engage in brutality either. But some cross the line both in war and in police work and their actions are fully newsworthy.

As to the bleating about the presumption of innocence, I have yet to read any account that provides the names of any marines under investigation. If this was a police brutality issue the suspect cops' names would have been known.

Should the marines face a UCMJ Article 32 proceeding their identities will be known. So what? That puts them in the same position as any accused person in the justice system.
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Post by pizza » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:09 pm

Garbage? Nonsense. Never before in our history has the media done as much to needlessly attack an administration during wartime -- with no possible gain to be realized -- as it has in recent times, thereby undercutting our war effort by its irresponsible behavior.
Last edited by pizza on Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Ralph » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:11 pm

pizza wrote:Garbage? Nonsense. Never before in our history has the media done as much to needlessly attack an administration during wartime -- with no possible gain to be realized -- and thereby undercut our war effort by its irresponsible behavior as it has in recent times.
*****

So maybe you should curl up with a nice overstuffed pastrami sandwich and a can of Dr. Brown's Cream Soda and read Northern newspaper accounts of the Lincoln administration's handling of the Civil War.
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Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:14 pm

pizza wrote:Garbage? Nonsense. Never before in our history has the media done as much to needlessly attack an administration during wartime -- with no possible gain to be realized -- as it has in recent times, thereby undercutting our war effort by its irresponsible behavior.
Well, as Haydn reminded me here some days ago, there was the Civil War, but for the modern era, this shameful performance by the MSM is a new low for which they deserve to be denounced as the propaganda arm of the enemy.
Last edited by Corlyss_D on Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by pizza » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:15 pm

Ralph wrote:
pizza wrote:Garbage? Nonsense. Never before in our history has the media done as much to needlessly attack an administration during wartime -- with no possible gain to be realized -- and thereby undercut our war effort by its irresponsible behavior as it has in recent times.
*****

So maybe you should curl up with a nice overstuffed pastrami sandwich and a can of Dr. Brown's Cream Soda and read Northern newspaper accounts of the Lincoln administration's handling of the Civil War.
There's no comparison to the damage that modern subversive mass communications can cause.

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Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:17 pm

pizza wrote:There's no comparison to the damage that modern subversive mass communications can cause.
I agree. They are the best and brightest hope of the enemy to persuade us to abandon the fight and all that the fight entails.
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Post by Barry » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:20 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
pizza wrote:There's no comparison to the damage that modern subversive mass communications can cause.
I agree. They are the best and brightest hope of the enemy to persuade us to abandon the fight and all that the fight entails.
Unfortunately, I agree. I'm not sure it would be possible to see through an extended conflict to victory today because of the way the media covers war. There is almost no way to maintain public support domestically or the help of allies abroad against such a backdrop.

Earlier this week, I was arguing with people on another board who are under the impression that our troops have a "penchant for lining up women and children against a wall and shooting them." That was a general statement; not a case specific one. Where do they get that crap? The answer is obvious. These people were dumbfounded when I mentioned that there are people in Iraq who want to see us fail and who will go to great lengths to that end, including fabricating massacres or misrepresenting how civillians died to further their cause via propoganda. Some in the media may be similarly dumbfounded. They shouldn't be broadcasting or writing about unsubstantiated rumors of war crimes. One of the rumors has already been proven false after an investigation.
Last edited by Barry on Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ralph » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:23 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
pizza wrote:There's no comparison to the damage that modern subversive mass communications can cause.
I agree. They are the best and brightest hope of the enemy to persuade us to abandon the fight and all that the fight entails.
*****

Gee whiz, Fox News just can't compete with the other media. :(
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Post by Ralph » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:25 pm

Top Marine mum but 'concerned' over alleged Marine atrocities

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WASHINGTON (AP) -- The top Marine said Wednesday he is "gravely concerned" by allegations of atrocities committed by his troops against Iraqi civilians but declined to say what investigators have found thus far.

In his first public remarks about the allegations concerning Iraqi civilian deaths in the town of Haditha last November and in Hamandiya two months ago, Gen. Michael Hagee, the Marine Corps commandant, sought to assure the public that any Marine found to have violated standards of behavior will be held accountable.

Asked at a 15-minute Pentagon news conference whether he had considered resigning over the matter, Hagee replied, "I serve at the pleasure of the president, and I have not submitted any resignation."

He said he could not comment on any aspect of the investigations, which are being conducted by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service.

The Haditha case centers on allegations that a small number of Marines from the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment murdered 24 Iraqi civilians -- included unarmed women and children -- on Nov. 19 after a roadside bomb in the town killed one of their fellow Marines.

The allegation in the Hamandiya case is that Marines pulled an unarmed Iraqi man from his home April 26 and shot him to death without provocation. Seven Marines and one Navy corpsman in that unit were taken out of Iraq and put in the brig at Camp Pendleton, California, pending the filing of any charges against them.

Hagee acknowledged the existence of a set of photographs taken by a Marine intelligence team that examined the scene of the killings in Haditha, but he would not discuss any specifics. News reports have said the photos show that civilians in at least two houses, including several women and children, were shot in the head and torso at close range.

That evidence matches the accounts offered by villagers in interviews with The Associated Press and other news organizations. But it conflicts with the Marines' original public assertion that 15 civilians were killed by the explosion of the roadside bomb that also killed one Marine, and that eight insurgents were killed in a subsequent firefight.

The Marines now admit that their original version of events was false, but they have not presented a corrected version pending the outcome of the investigations.

Hagee said he would wait until the Haditha and Hamandiya criminal investigations are completed before he would remove any commanders from their posts. "I am waiting for those investigations to be complete so that I can understand actually what happened, both on the ground and within the chain of command," he said.

Noting the growing public speculation about the case, Hagee urged patience as investigators complete their work.

"We intend to keep you informed to the fullest extent possible without interfering with the legal process," he said.

Hagee said no one should doubt that the allegations will be fully and fairly investigated.

"As commandant I am gravely concerned about the serious allegations concerning actions of some Marines at Haditha and Hamandiya," he said. "I am responsible and I take these responsibilities quite seriously."

Hagee, who is scheduled to complete his four-year tenure as Marine commandant this year, traveled last week to Iraq to reinforce the importance of adhering to Corps standards of behavior. At his news conference he said he was pleased to find that "their morale is really quite high," despite concerns about the atrocity allegations.

"They are focused on what they're doing," he said. "They are making a difference. They are very proud of what they're doing. And I can tell you, their families are very proud of what they're doing. Are they concerned? Yes. But they know what we're going to do: We're going to complete those investigations. And if any individual has been found to have violated our standards, rules or regulations, they will be held accountable."

The commandant said he plans to make additional trips, to Marine bases in California, Hawaii and Japan, to deliver the same message.
Last edited by Ralph on Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:28 pm

Ralph wrote:Gee whiz, Fox News just can't compete with the other media. :(
I wouldn't know. I watch only Special Report with Brit Hume. I understand that FN's ratings are good, but I don't consider most of it News reportage and one has to contend with the stats that say most people don't watch any kind of news programming and the stats that say of those who do, most are getting their "information" from The Daily Show. :shock:
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Post by Lilith » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:34 pm

"modern subversive mass communications " Pizza

Subversives- remember that word? The 50S- McCarthyism, etc.
Now Pizza describes mass communications as subversive. Well, I guess this chatroom is part of that subversive culture, along with the evening news, the newspapers, telephones, computers - you name it in mass communications... Pizza thinks its subversive.

I think he's subversive ... subversive of justice. I don't know if our soldiers are guilty or not, but I do NOT want it covered up. I do not want the Vietnam slaughter all over again. Lets all hope its not true - but lets not blame the messenger.

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Post by pizza » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:47 am

Lilith wrote:"modern subversive mass communications " Pizza

Subversives- remember that word? The 50S- McCarthyism, etc.
Now Pizza describes mass communications as subversive. Well, I guess this chatroom is part of that subversive culture, along with the evening news, the newspapers, telephones, computers - you name it in mass communications... Pizza thinks its subversive.

I think he's subversive ... subversive of justice. I don't know if our soldiers are guilty or not, but I do NOT want it covered up. I do not want the Vietnam slaughter all over again. Lets all hope its not true - but lets not blame the messenger.
When mass communications ARE subversive, they're subversive. What's so hard to understand about that? Did the word "subversive" suddenly become persona non grata because it was misused by a demogogue a half-century ago? You weren't even a gleam when I lived through that era and I had my own problems because of it. Don't lecture me on the subject of McCarthyism, twit.

There is a presumption that our soldiers are innocent of any wrongdoing. What is it that you don't want "covered up"?

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Post by Lilith » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:31 am

"There is a presumption that our soldiers are innocent of any wrongdoing. What is it that you don't want "covered up"?

More lawyer rubbish. As you must know, there is evidence of deception and cover up. Like Me Lai, remember ???????????? Remember your hero Lt Calley?

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Post by pizza » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:50 am

Lilith wrote:"There is a presumption that our soldiers are innocent of any wrongdoing. What is it that you don't want "covered up"?

More lawyer rubbish. As you must know, there is evidence of deception and cover up. Like Me Lai, remember ???????????? Remember your hero Lt Calley?
The twit knows the outcome of the case before it's investigated, much less tried.

I remember the Constitution. In your twisted anti-American mind, did you forget what American soldiers fought and died for throughout our history? Shame on you.

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Post by Lilith » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:55 am

How much did you love your hero, Lt. Calley, Pizza?

I'll bet you defended him despite the evidence didn't you? I'm sure you didn't see any 'issues' with his actions either. You have trouble seeing issues, don't you? Remember Dubai Ports ?

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Post by pizza » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:09 am

Lilith wrote:How much did you love your hero, Lt. Calley, Pizza?

I'll bet you defended him despite the evidence didn't you? I'm sure you didn't see any 'issues' with his actions either. You have trouble seeing issues, don't you? Remember Dubai Ports ?
You haven't the vaguest understanding of what our Constitution means, and why the presumption of innocence attaches to anyone accused of a crime, do you, twit.

According to your twisted way of thinking, any American soldier suspected of wrongdoing is automatically another Calley -- a presumption of guilt by association. That's your warped view of the military, isn't it? Now there's McCarthyism at its worst. When did Joe-the-Demagogue become your hero?

Shame on you again.

Alban Berg

Post by Alban Berg » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:18 am

pizza wrote:Garbage? Nonsense. Never before in our history has the media done as much to needlessly attack an administration during wartime -- with no possible gain to be realized -- as it has in recent times, thereby undercutting our war effort by its irresponsible behavior.
And where do you and your fellow sympathizers get your information if not from some sort of "media"? The "media" is as much Rush Limbaugh and Fox News as it is Maureen Dowd and Andrew Sullivan; and this being America and not some totalitarian society, no one in the media is under any obligation to rubber-stamp the administration's policies. I don't see any sign of you or your cohorts taking vacations to Iraq to view the carnage first-hand. (But why really should you not? Iraq is so much "safer" thanks to our efforts there.) Obviously one should read as much as possible from all sides and come to one's own conclusions. But to scapegoat the NY Times and news sources that publish similar editorial positions is to absolve the administration of all responsibility for its numerous shortcomings - precisely of course what the administration most wants.

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Post by pizza » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:29 am

Nobody here suggested the media should act as a "rubber stamp" for the administration. There is a wide gap between "rubber stamping" the policies of the administration and deliberately subverting and undercutting its policies that are aimed at pursuing the war effort, such as publishing improperly leaked, sensitive information that can be used against our interests. We recently discussed this issue at length concerning the New York Times and its editorial policies in another thread.

Perhaps you, as do some at the NY Times believe that every piece of information, whether classified or not that comes to the attention of a journalist is ripe for publication, regardless of the harm that can result. I do not.

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Post by Lilith » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:57 am

Do I think our troops are guilty of another Calley- Like massacre? Possibly. We don't know yet, do we? I hope they are not.

However, according to what is known ccurrently, there is a chance of that.
I would like that to be investigated thoroughly. Do you have a problem with that, Pizza?
And I praise the news media for digging up this information. If left to the military or warmongers like you, it would have been 'buried'.

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Post by pizza » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:58 pm

Lilith wrote:Do I think our troops are guilty of another Calley- Like massacre? Possibly. We don't know yet, do we? I hope they are not.

However, according to what is known ccurrently, there is a chance of that.
I would like that to be investigated thoroughly. Do you have a problem with that, Pizza?
And I praise the news media for digging up this information. If left to the military or warmongers like you, it would have been 'buried'.
You don't want an investigation. You already know they're guilty. You've convicted them before you know the facts and now feel the need to backtrack because you got caught. Everything you dig up is dirt. Joe McCarthy would have loved to have worked with a twit like you.

Shame on you once again.

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Post by Lilith » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:18 pm

On my very first post on this thread I stated
" Lets all hope its not true - but lets not blame the messenger."

So Mr PizzaPie, you see, I stated right off that I did not know if it is true or not. BUT AS A LAWYER, YOU HAVE MADE A CAREER OF MISREPRESENTING THE FACTS, so you are quite experienced at it. So it does not surprise me that you would do so on this posting board. In fact, you do it regularly.

----------------------------------------------------------
Pizza is standing at the gate to Heaven and St. Peter is listing his sins:

Defending a large corporation in a pollution suit where he knew they were guilty.
Defending an obviously guilty murderer because the fee was high.
Overcharging fees to many clients.
Prosecuting an innocent woman because a scapegoat was needed in a controversial case.
And the list goes on for quite awhile....
Pizza objects and begins to argue his case. He admits all these things, but argues, "Wait, I've done some charity in my life also." St. Peter looks in his book and says,"Yes, I see. Once you gave a dime to a panhandler and once you gave an extra nickel to the shoeshine boy, correct?" Pizza gets a smug look on his face and replies, "Yes." St. Peter turns to the angel next to him and says, "Give this guy 15 cents and tell him to go to hell."

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Post by pizza » Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:00 am

St. Peter ain't Jewish. You got the wrong address! :lol:

Your pretense at fair-mindedness falls flatter than your syntax. In the context of a fair minded presentation, of what relevance was your not-so-subtle -- and now conveniently omitted injection of Viet Nam and Lt. Calley? Lying twit.

Not at all surprising to see that you hate the American legal system as much as you hate the American military.

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