ACLU Warrantless Wiretapping Case in Court

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Ralph
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ACLU Warrantless Wiretapping Case in Court

Post by Ralph » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:56 am

ACLU tries to stop warrantless wiretapping
6/12/2006, 11:19 a.m. ET
By SARAH KARUSH
The Associated Press

DETROIT (AP) — Critics of the government's domestic surveillance program claim it violates the rights of free speech and privacy. The Bush administration says it is necessary and legal.

Both sides were in court Monday to argue the constitutionality of the program, with the American Civil Liberties Union seeking an immediate halt to warrantless wiretapping.

The Bush administration has asked U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor to dismiss the lawsuit, saying litigation would jeopardize state secrets.

The administration has acknowledged eavesdropping on Americans' international communications without first seeking court approval. President Bush has said the eavesdropping is legal because of a congressional resolution passed after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks that authorized him to use force in the fight against terrorism.

The parties in the ACLU lawsuit, who include journalists, scholars and lawyers, say the program has hampered their ability to do their jobs because it has made international contacts, such as sources and potential witnesses, wary of sharing information over the phone.

Ann Beeson, the ACLU's associate legal director, said the administration's arguments in defense of the program don't square with the Constitution.

"The framers never intended to give the president the power to ignore the laws of Congress even during wartime and emergencies," she said last week during a conference call with reporters.

She said no state secrets need to be revealed to litigate the case because the administration has already acknowledged the program exists. The Center for Constitutional Rights has filed a similar lawsuit on the eavesdropping in federal court in New York.
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Re: ACLU Warrantless Wiretapping Case in Court

Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:28 pm

Ralph wrote:ACLU tries to stop warrantless wiretapping
Yes, let's go ahead and force the issue in the courts while something like 70-80% of the public supports it. A winner that. And don't tell me this is laying down a marker for the future like that silly challenge to the Solomon Amendment.
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Ralph
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Re: ACLU Warrantless Wiretapping Case in Court

Post by Ralph » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:10 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote:ACLU tries to stop warrantless wiretapping
Yes, let's go ahead and force the issue in the courts while something like 70-80% of the public supports it. A winner that. And don't tell me this is laying down a marker for the future like that silly challenge to the Solomon Amendment.
*****

I wasn't aware that public sentiment had anything to do with issues of constitutionality. If it did blacks would still be at the back of the bus in some states.
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Re: ACLU Warrantless Wiretapping Case in Court

Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:21 pm

Ralph wrote:I wasn't aware that public sentiment had anything to do with issues of constitutionality. If it did blacks would still be at the back of the bus in some states.
I guess you've noticed how well that desegregation thing worked out, right? And that goes double for abortion. Neither race nor abortion would still be issues roiling the public if the court had not usurped the peoples' rightful role in deciding these issues.

But on the merits, national refusal to enforce the 14th Amendment for millions of American citizens is not on the same level as an 8th Amendment attack on executing a pitiful handful of convicted killers, some of them exquisitely brutal, by lethal injection, whether it's "painful" to the perp or not. Find someone other than the ACLU who cares whether the perps suffer. And you know very well that the courts are very aware of public opinion. Weren't you the one who told me that no matter that the ACLU attacks Reynolds because there ain't no way the court will overturn it? S'pose public opinion has anything to do with that?
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Re: ACLU Warrantless Wiretapping Case in Court

Post by Ralph » Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:37 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote:I wasn't aware that public sentiment had anything to do with issues of constitutionality. If it did blacks would still be at the back of the bus in some states.
I guess you've noticed how well that desegregation thing worked out, right? And that goes double for abortion. Neither race nor abortion would still be issues roiling the public if the court had not usurped the peoples' rightful role in deciding these issues.

But on the merits, national refusal to enforce the 14th Amendment for millions of American citizens is not on the same level as an 8th Amendment attack on executing a pitiful handful of convicted killers, some of them exquisitely brutal, by lethal injection, whether it's "painful" to the perp or not. Find someone other than the ACLU who cares whether the perps suffer. And you know very well that the courts are very aware of public opinion. Weren't you the one who told me that no matter that the ACLU attacks Reynolds because there ain't no way the court will overturn it? S'pose public opinion has anything to do with that?
*****

No it's because the justices themselves do not view polygamy as consistent with American values.

Whether YOU think desgregation and abortion remain issues because of constitutional adjudication doesn't mean much. And we wouldn't have the progress in equality for blacks or women but for Supreme Court decisions that forced major changes.
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Re: ACLU Warrantless Wiretapping Case in Court

Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:10 pm

Ralph wrote:Whether YOU think desgregation and abortion remain issues because of constitutional adjudication doesn't mean much.
If I were the only one claiming it, it wouldn't mean much. I'm not. Find any concervative jurist or analyst and they will tell you the same. On abortion, even some liberals think so. They aren't so indiffernt to the politics of both issues that they deny the obvious. They may assert that we are better off for it, but they don't deny the public was robbed and the public debate by which we settle most of our grinding issues short-circuited.
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Re: ACLU Warrantless Wiretapping Case in Court

Post by Ralph » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:55 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote:Whether YOU think desgregation and abortion remain issues because of constitutional adjudication doesn't mean much.
If I were the only one claiming it, it wouldn't mean much. I'm not. Find any concervative jurist or analyst and they will tell you the same. On abortion, even some liberals think so. They aren't so indiffernt to the politics of both issues that they deny the obvious. They may assert that we are better off for it, but they don't deny the public was robbed and the public debate by which we settle most of our grinding issues short-circuited.
*****

The public debate on abortion seems pretty robust to me. Always has been.
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Re: ACLU Warrantless Wiretapping Case in Court

Post by Corlyss_D » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:17 am

Ralph wrote:The public debate on abortion seems pretty robust to me. Always has been.
:roll: The legislative course has been foreclosed by Roe v. Wade. Take another look at that Rosen article in Atlantic.
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Re: ACLU Warrantless Wiretapping Case in Court

Post by Ralph » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:17 am

Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote:The public debate on abortion seems pretty robust to me. Always has been.
:roll: The legislative course has been foreclosed by Roe v. Wade. Take another look at that Rosen article in Atlantic.
*****

That's what may happen when a constitutional right is at stake. But in fact legislatures have been very busy limiting the right of abortion since the Casey decision.
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