On this date in 1953 a devoted couple

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Ralph
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On this date in 1953 a devoted couple

Post by Ralph » Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:13 am

went to the electric chair in new York's Sing Sing prison. Ethel and Julius Rosenberg. Although convicted in federal court the U.S. had to pay New York to do the execution since there were no federal facilities.

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After a too long period of attempts by some historians to exculpate the Rosenbergs, the releases of Soviet files showed conclusively that Julius was a spy. No surprise for many of us. Ethel's role is murkier. In both cases their trials fell far short of due process and they were not represented by able counsel.

Still an open question was the degree to which Julius's treason actually enabled the Soviets to develop their own atomic bomb. Legally that's irrelevant. Historically, that's an interesting issue.
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Post by jbuck919 » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:01 am

Look at that face. Is that the face of a traitor?

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by Werner » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:40 am

How could you tell?
Werner Isler

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Post by Ralph » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:42 am

Any woman wearing a hat like THAT one, even then, was probably a spy.
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Post by RebLem » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:56 am

jbuck919 wrote:Look at that face. Is that the face of a traitor?
Exactly what do the faces of traitors look like? Generally, they look like most of the rest of us. Spies wouldn't be very effective if they looked like spies, now, would they?

This is also why I usually object when people refer to heinous criminals like child molesters and murderers like Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Dennis Rader, and Richard Speck as MONSTERS. Children, hearing this, conjure up their favorite cartoon or movie or storybook villains who look villainous. So, when they encounter a real child molester who looks nice, smiles a lot, and seems gentle, they think, "What's to worry?" These are dangerous stereotypes, not only because they discriminate against decent people who in one particular or other may fit the stereotype, but because they do not make people, especially kids, aware of the fact that you can't tell a monster by his look, unless you have seen his mug shot.
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Post by jbuck919 » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:12 pm

RebLem wrote:
jbuck919 wrote:Look at that face. Is that the face of a traitor?
Exactly what do the faces of traitors look like? Generally, they look like most of the rest of us. Spies wouldn't be very effective if they looked like spies, now, would they?

This is also why I usually object when people refer to heinous criminals like child molesters and murderers like Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Dennis Rader, and Richard Speck as MONSTERS. Children, hearing this, conjure up their favorite cartoon or movie or storybook villains who look villainous. So, when they encounter a real child molester who looks nice, smiles a lot, and seems gentle, they think, "What's to worry?" These are dangerous stereotypes, not only because they discriminate against decent people who in one particular or other may fit the stereotype, but because they do not make people, especially kids, aware of the fact that you can't tell a monster by his look, unless you have seen his mug shot.
I was trying, and evidently unsuccessfully, to make a little joke following up on Ralph's comment regarding ineffectual counsel. An appeal to the appearance of the defendant was a well-known joke in the old media, but I guess not any more.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:10 pm

jbuck919 wrote:Look at that face. Is that the face of a traitor?
Yes, and worse, the face of dupe. Two things that interest me about the Rosenberg case are 1) how diligently their two sons continue to milk the case for their livelihoods with the looney left who despite all the evidence continue to maintain that the Rosenbergs were innocent and the case was a vast conspiracy against the innocent; 2) the fact that Ethel was pregnant when executed. That could NEVER happen today, thank God.
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Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:13 pm

---------------

Deleted, because I didn't John's joke until after I posted.

Apologies around.
Last edited by Corlyss_D on Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jbuck919 » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:23 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
RebLem wrote:
jbuck919 wrote:Look at that face. Is that the face of a traitor?
Exactly what do the faces of traitors look like?
Oh, that's just John on his anti-death penalty tear.
I don't think they or anyone else should have been put to death, but I do think they were severely guilty of an unspeakable crime. Corlyss, did you read my previous post? The "look at those faces" thing was a joke. It was a classic part of cheap schtick in comedy years ago and I don't believe no one here remembers it.

When I was a kid I couldn't believe my ears when I heard that the Rosenbergs (and a few others) gave away secrets because they thought there should be a balance of power between a monstrosity such as the Soviet Union and the United States and its democratic allies, and that is exactly the way I still feel. If it is possible to rot in hell for sheer stupidity, I hope they are doing so.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:26 pm

jbuck919 wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:
RebLem wrote:
jbuck919 wrote:Look at that face. Is that the face of a traitor?
Exactly what do the faces of traitors look like?
Oh, that's just John on his anti-death penalty tear.
I don't think they or anyone else should have been put to death, but I do think they were severely guilty of an unspeakable crime. Corlyss, did you read my previous post? The "look at those faces" thing was a joke. It was a classic part of cheap schtick in comedy years ago and I don't believe no one here remembers it.

When I was a kid I couldn't believe my ears when I heard that the Rosenbergs (and a few others) gave away secrets because they thought there should be a balance of power between a monstrosity such as the Soviet Union and the United States and its democratic allies, and that is exactly the way I still feel. If it is possible to rot in hell for sheer stupidity, I hope they are doing so.
No, I hadn't gotten that far when I posted my dismissal. I'll take a yellow card on that one. I should have read further.
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Post by Ralph » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:29 pm

Successful spies blend in perfectly. Even then no one wearing a onstrous piece of head garb like the one in the photo above could pass without suspicion. Ethel's hat says it all. :)

I believe the two Rosenberg sons now acknowledge their father's role as a spy.
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