Another Saddam Lawyer Murdered

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Ralph
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Another Saddam Lawyer Murdered

Post by Ralph » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:33 am

Pizza and I are rethinking our offer to join the former dictator's defense team.

From The New York Times:

June 21, 2006
Another One of Hussein's Lawyers Is Killed
By CHRISTINE HAUSER

A lawyer on Saddam Hussein's defense team was kidnapped and later found dead in a Baghdad neighborhood, the Interior Ministry said today. He was the third lawyer representing Mr. Hussein or his co-defendants to have been assassinated since their trial started late last year.

The Iraqi police found the body of Khamis al-Obeidi, one of Mr. Hussein's defense lawyers, riddled with bullets in the Ur neighborhood in east Baghdad, a ministry spokesman said. The Associated Press reported that he was abducted from his home by men wearing Iraqi police uniforms.

Another member of Mr. Hussein's defense team, Najieb al-Nuaimi, said that Mr. Obeidi had felt that he was a target and had limited his movements to professional obligations.

"There is no security," Mr. Nuaimi said. "All of us have received threats."

Mr. Obeidi had been one of the most vocal members of Mr. Hussein's team in calling for better security or for the boycotting of the trial after the assassinations of two other defense lawyers in October and November last year.

News agencies reported that he lived in the predominantly Sunni neighborhood of Adamiya. Mr. Hussein is being tried along with seven co-defendants in a tribunal in Baghdad on charges of committing crimes against humanity in the torture and killing of 148 Shiite men and teenage boys from Dujail, a town 35 miles north of Baghdad, after an assassination attempt against the Iraqi leader there in 1982.

With Mr. Obeidi's death, as many as 10 people directly linked to the trial process have been killed. Many of the judges and prosecutors live inside high-walled compounds protected by Iraqi and American troops and travel in armored vehicles with bodyguards.

Within 36 hours of the trial's opening last October, a group of men seized Sadoun al-Janabi, the lead lawyer for the former chief judge of Mr. Hussein's revolutionary court, from his Baghdad office. Mr Janabi's body was found with two bullet wounds to the head.

Then in November, gunmen ambushed two other defense lawyers on a Baghdad street, killing one of them, Adel Muhammad al-Zubaidi, and seriously wounding the other, Thamir al-Khuzaie.

The attacks had brought immediate demands from the other lawyers for the trial to be halted and moved to a location outside Iraq.

"We think that it's impossible to hold a trial in Baghdad in these security conditions, and that the court should be transferred to a location outside Iraq," Mr. Obeidi said in November.

After the first killing, Mr. Obeidi, one of the three main lawyers who has represented Mr. Hussein since the opening of the trial, had been among those who decided to suspend their participation in the trial, saying that they would consider returning to court only if the killers of Mr. Janabi were brought to justice.

"Under the present security conditions in Iraq, our clients' best interests are served by our suspending our participation in the trial, because we cannot move freely, much less undertake the kind of legal preparations that are essential to defend them," Mr. Obeidi said at the time.

The Iraqi Bar Association and lawyers appearing for Mr. Hussein and other defendants later accepted offers of protection from Iraqi and American officials. The killings have renewed doubts about whether it is possible to hold a fair trial in the midst of a conflict that has spurred revenge killings. Some Western human rights advocates have said that the killings reopened the issue of whether the trial should have been held outside Iraq.

Defense objections have also gone beyond the lack of protection, with claims that the court is inherently biased against Mr. Hussein and other defendants.

An Iraqi employee of The New York Times in Baghdad contributed to this article.
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mourningstar
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Post by mourningstar » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:38 am

Hmm... i think nobody wants to be a lawyer for saddam anymore
"Desertion for the artist means abandoning the concrete."

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Post by jbuck919 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:47 am

I have to think that it is a measure of the depth to which Saddam sank his own country into barbarity that there are people who understand modern justice so little that they think it appropriate to kill his defense lawyers.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
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Post by Ralph » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:21 am

jbuck919 wrote:I have to think that it is a measure of the depth to which Saddam sank his own country into barbarity that there are people who understand modern justice so little that they think it appropriate to kill his defense lawyers.
*****

As a lawyer who occasionally does defense cases I definitely agree. :)
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Post by karlhenning » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:31 am

Freedom's on the march.
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Re: Another Saddam Lawyer Murdered

Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:36 am

Ralph wrote:Pizza and I are rethinking our offer to join the former dictator's defense team.
Good idea. You can take heart in the fact that they haven't managed to get that aging disgrace, Ramsey Clark. I won't consider it a really dangerous assignment until they do.
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Re: Another Saddam Lawyer Murdered

Post by mourningstar » Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:23 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote:Pizza and I are rethinking our offer to join the former dictator's defense team.
Good idea. You can take heart in the fact that they haven't managed to get that aging disgrace, Ramsey Clark. I won't consider it a really dangerous assignment until they do.
You know next week, we have to choose between taking Criminology or Attorney as a subject. these kind of reports are depressing :o i don't feel like going off-topic, but does anyone follows "the closer" or something..
"Desertion for the artist means abandoning the concrete."

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Re: Another Saddam Lawyer Murdered

Post by Ralph » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:23 pm

mourningstar wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote:Pizza and I are rethinking our offer to join the former dictator's defense team.
Good idea. You can take heart in the fact that they haven't managed to get that aging disgrace, Ramsey Clark. I won't consider it a really dangerous assignment until they do.
You know next week, we have to choose between taking Criminology or Attorney as a subject. these kind of reports are depressing :o i don't feel like going off-topic, but does anyone follows "the closer" or something..
*****

What is the course called "Attorney?"
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Re: Another Saddam Lawyer Murdered

Post by mourningstar » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:30 pm

Ralph wrote:
mourningstar wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote:Pizza and I are rethinking our offer to join the former dictator's defense team.
Good idea. You can take heart in the fact that they haven't managed to get that aging disgrace, Ramsey Clark. I won't consider it a really dangerous assignment until they do.
You know next week, we have to choose between taking Criminology or Attorney as a subject. these kind of reports are depressing :o i don't feel like going off-topic, but does anyone follows "the closer" or something..
*****

What is the course called "Attorney?"
yep. it's an course where you learn the basic stuff to become one. and it's also includes an cursus to be assertive. .. it's crazy, i don't want that. i am rather interested in the criminology subject.
"Desertion for the artist means abandoning the concrete."

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Re: Another Saddam Lawyer Murdered

Post by jbuck919 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:52 pm

Ralph wrote:
mourningstar wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote:Pizza and I are rethinking our offer to join the former dictator's defense team.
Good idea. You can take heart in the fact that they haven't managed to get that aging disgrace, Ramsey Clark. I won't consider it a really dangerous assignment until they do.
You know next week, we have to choose between taking Criminology or Attorney as a subject. these kind of reports are depressing :o i don't feel like going off-topic, but does anyone follows "the closer" or something..
*****

What is the course called "Attorney?"
We are running into the language barrier here. There is no word in Dutch for what we in English would call "attornology." Goodness, Ralph, can't you exercise some sense? :)

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Gregory Kleyn

Post by Gregory Kleyn » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:00 pm

Just when are they going to hang this guy (Sadaam) already??

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Post by Lilith » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:51 pm

"Pizza and I are rethinking our offer to join the former dictator's defense team. " RALPH

Please, PLEASE let Pizza Go!

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Re: Another Saddam Lawyer Murdered

Post by Ralph » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:46 pm

jbuck919 wrote:
Ralph wrote:
mourningstar wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote:Pizza and I are rethinking our offer to join the former dictator's defense team.
Good idea. You can take heart in the fact that they haven't managed to get that aging disgrace, Ramsey Clark. I won't consider it a really dangerous assignment until they do.
You know next week, we have to choose between taking Criminology or Attorney as a subject. these kind of reports are depressing :o i don't feel like going off-topic, but does anyone follows "the closer" or something..
*****

What is the course called "Attorney?"
We are running into the language barrier here. There is no word in Dutch for what we in English would call "attornology." Goodness, Ralph, can't you exercise some sense? :)
*****

Sorry, but I was just interested in what the course was about. "Attornology" certainly ain't a word. I assume the course is about the role and function of a Dutch lawyer.
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Ralph
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Post by Ralph » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:46 pm

Lilith wrote:"Pizza and I are rethinking our offer to join the former dictator's defense team. " RALPH

Please, PLEASE let Pizza Go!
*****

He goes, I go!
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Re: Another Saddam Lawyer Murdered

Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:24 pm

mourningstar wrote: it's an course where you learn the basic stuff to become one. and it's also includes an cursus to be assertive. .. it's crazy, i don't want that. i am rather interested in the criminology subject.
Speaking as a someone who always shied away from debate classes and never was comfortable speaking publicly, I recommend that you take every course that will teach you how to be an advocate. Lawyers are influential not just because they know the law (and how to get around it) but because words are the tools of our trade. Persuasion is our business. You need to know how to argue effectively to represent your client, to sell your argument to a jury or a judge. True, crim law has sexier stories inherently, but you can pick up crim law anytime. You can never have too many courses on how better to use the tools of your trade. If they teach you anything practical like how to manage a law office, how to write professional-looking briefs, to be a more effective researcher, those will stand you in good stead too.
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Re: Another Saddam Lawyer Murdered

Post by Ralph » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:27 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
mourningstar wrote: it's an course where you learn the basic stuff to become one. and it's also includes an cursus to be assertive. .. it's crazy, i don't want that. i am rather interested in the criminology subject.
Speaking as a someone who always shied away from debate classes and never was comfortable speaking publicly, I recommend that you take every course that will teach you how to be an advocate. Lawyers are influential not just because they know the law (and how to get around it) but because words are the tools of our trade. Persuasion is our business. You need to know how to argue effectively to represent your client, to sell your argument to a jury or a judge. True, crim law has sexier stories inherently, but you can pick up crim law anytime. You can never have too many courses on how better to use the tools of your trade. If they teach you anything practical like how to manage a law office, how to write professional-looking briefs, to be a more effective researcher, those will stand you in good stead too.
*****

Amen.
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Re: Another Saddam Lawyer Murdered

Post by mourningstar » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:13 am

Corlyss_D wrote:
mourningstar wrote: it's an course where you learn the basic stuff to become one. and it's also includes an cursus to be assertive. .. it's crazy, i don't want that. i am rather interested in the criminology subject.
Speaking as a someone who always shied away from debate classes and never was comfortable speaking publicly, I recommend that you take every course that will teach you how to be an advocate. Lawyers are influential not just because they know the law (and how to get around it) but because words are the tools of our trade. Persuasion is our business. You need to know how to argue effectively to represent your client, to sell your argument to a jury or a judge. True, crim law has sexier stories inherently, but you can pick up crim law anytime. You can never have too many courses on how better to use the tools of your trade. If they teach you anything practical like how to manage a law office, how to write professional-looking briefs, to be a more effective researcher, those will stand you in good stead too.
Well said indeed.
but you can pick up crim law anytime
you probably right. well i might do it, :D ...
"Desertion for the artist means abandoning the concrete."

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Re: Another Saddam Lawyer Murdered

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:18 am

Ralph wrote: Sorry, but I was just interested in what the course was about. "Attornology" certainly ain't a word. I assume the course is about the role and function of a Dutch lawyer.
I hope Ralph and everyone else realizes I was making a little joke, and yes, I know, extremely little.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by mourningstar » Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:11 am

It's a preparing course for future courts involvements. but you also get the feel of it, (theory and practice) .. hence, that's why the include assertive training.
"Desertion for the artist means abandoning the concrete."

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