Bush, Kerry, and respect for the troops

[RebLem]

Oct 31, 11:24 PM EST | Stars & Stripes

White House, Kerry exchange accusations

By JENNIFER LOVEN
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The White House and Sen. John Kerry traded their harshest accusations since the 2004 presidential race on Tuesday, with President Bush accusing the Democrat of troop-bashing and Kerry calling the president's men hacks who are "willing to lie."

The war of words, tough even for this hard-fought campaign season, came after Kerry told a group of California students on Monday that those unable to navigate the country's education system "get stuck in Iraq."

The two parties are searching for any edge amid indications Democrats could take back the House and possibly win control of the Senate in next week's midterm elections. Though neither Bush nor Kerry is on any ballot, the bitterness with which they fought each other as 2004 rivals spilled over as both campaign hard for their parties in a race shaped in large measure by public doubts about the Iraq war.

As Republicans demanded that Kerry apologize, a Democratic congressional candidate in a close race in Iowa canceled a campaign event with Kerry, saying the senator's comments were inappropriate.

White House press secretary Tony Snow was asked about Kerry's comment at his regular briefing with reporters, and had clearly come prepared with a lengthy attack. He said the quote "fits a pattern" of negative remarks about U.S. soldiers from the decorated Vietnam veteran and suggested that whether Democratic candidates - particularly those running on their military service backgrounds - agree with their 2004 standard-bearer should be a campaign litmus test.

Bush, campaigning later in Georgia, said Kerry's statement was "insulting and it is shameful."

"The members of the United States military are plenty smart and they are plenty brave and the senator from Massachusetts owes them an apology," Bush said during an appearance for a former GOP congressman, Mac Collins, who is trying to oust Democratic Rep. Jim Marshall. There were boos at the mention of Kerry's name and cheers at Bush's call for an apology.

Kerry, who is considering another run for the White House in 2008, angrily fired back.
At a hastily arranged news conference in Seattle, Kerry said: "I apologize to no one for my criticism of the president and of his broken policy."

Kerry said the comment in question was "a botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops ... and they know that's what I was talking about."

It came during a campaign rally for California Democratic gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides. Kerry opened his speech at Pasadena City College with several one-liners, saying at one point that Bush had lived in Texas but now "lives in a state of denial."

He then said: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

That, Kerry said, was meant as a reference to Bush, not troops. Kerry said it is the president who owes U.S. soldiers an apology - for "a Katrina foreign policy" that misled the country into war in Iraq, failed to adequately study and plan for the aftermath, has not properly equipped troops and has expanded the terrorist threat.

"I'm sick and tired of a bunch of despicable Republicans who will not debate real policy, who won't take responsibility for their own mistakes, standing up and trying to make other people the butt of those mistakes," he said. "It disgusts me that a bunch of these Republican hacks who've never worn the uniform of our country are willing to lie about those who did."

Unsubstantiated allegations about Kerry's Vietnam War heroism from a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth figured prominently in the 2004 Kerry-Bush race.

In Iowa, a spokesman for Democratic congressional candidate Bruce Braley said Braley had decided independently to cancel an event with Kerry scheduled for Thursday. Braley, who is running against Republican Mike Whalen in the state's 1st District, said in a statement that the White House and Kerry should stop bickering and focus on how to change course in Iraq.

Other Republicans issued demands for an apology from Kerry.

GOP Sen. John McCain, like Kerry a decorated Vietnam veteran and a potential 2008 rival, said while campaigning for Republican candidates in Indiana that "the suggestion that only the least educated Americans would agree to serve in the military and fight in Iraq is an insult to every soldier serving in combat today."

Added House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., struggling to keep his party in control of Congress: "Our soldiers risk their lives in the face of grave dangers on the battlefield, and no one who chooses to courageously and selflessly defend our country can be considered 'uneducated.'"

The national commander of the veterans group the American Legion, Paul A. Morin, called on Kerry to apologize for a "false and outrageous attack."

---

Associated Press writers Michael Blood in Los Angeles, Mike Smith in Indianapolis and Henry C. Jackson in Des Moines contributed to this report.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/W/ ... TE=DEFAULT

[pizza]

Just proves that foot-in-mouth disease is pandemic this time of the year!

[Corlyss_D]

I pray Kerry runs in 08. It would be just toooooooo rich.

[Ralph]

A not particularly smart comment by Kerry and an expected response from Bush. Neither will change any votes.

[pizza]

A not particularly smart comment by Kerry . . . .

From a not particularly smart man.

[jbuck919]

I pray Kerry runs in 08. It would be just toooooooo rich.

You know that's not going to happen. We've had candidates run twice or even more often (William Jennings Bryan) and once in a whiole they win the second time (Richard Nixon), but no, not Kerry. I don't think he was so bad and of course voted for him, but he is now what in the entertainment business is called box office poison. Al Gore would have a better chance at a second try, but doesn't seem to be interested.

As a matter of curiosity, having been recently dismissive of John McCain about whom we had a sem-commisserating prior exchange, exactly who do you wish to prevail even if McCain did run? Where is your list of viable Republican candidates? I don't have one of Democrats and I at least admit it.

[Lilith]

"From a not particularly smart man."

true, but still probably brighter than Bush.

[pizza]

"From a not particularly smart man."

true, but still probably brighter than Bush.

Proving once again that what matters most isn't only what you have, but how you use it.

[Lilith]

"Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Proving once again that what matters most isn't only what you have, but how you use it - Pizza

He (Bush) has used it well, hasn't he?

[Ralph]

I pray Kerry runs in 08. It would be just toooooooo rich.

You know that's not going to happen. We've had candidates run twice or even more often (William Jennings Bryan) and once in a whiole they win the second time (Richard Nixon), but no, not Kerry. I don't think he was so bad and of course voted for him, but he is now what in the entertainment business is called box office poison. Al Gore would have a better chance at a second try, but doesn't seem to be interested.

As a matter of curiosity, having been recently dismissive of John McCain about whom we had a sem-commisserating prior exchange, exactly who do you wish to prevail even if McCain did run? Where is your list of viable Republican candidates? I don't have one of Democrats and I at least admit it.

*****

Hey, don't forget Harold Stassen.

[Donald Isler]

Uh, Ralph, please remind me in which year Stassen won. (!)

[pizza]

"Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Proving once again that what matters most isn't only what you have, but how you use it - Pizza

He (Bush) has used it well, hasn't he?

He used it well enough to become president and to be re-elected!

[Lilith]

"He used it well enough to become president and to be re-elected"

No kidding, Jerome ..... you mean Bush is really President? Thank you for that historical update.

[pizza]

"He used it well enough to become president and to be re-elected"

No kidding, Jerome ..... you mean Bush is really President? Thank you for that historical update.

If you think that's what the post meant, dearie, you are not using all your marbles. But then again . . . .

[Werner]

Okay, folks, here is the question:

Kerry botched a stupid joke.

Bush (and Co.) botched Iraq.

Which is more serious?

[Ralph]

Uh, Ralph, please remind me in which year Stassen won. (!)

*****

I would have sworn he was president when I was a kid.

[Teresa B]

Okay, folks, here is the question:

Kerry botched a stupid joke.

Bush (and Co.) botched Iraq.

Which is more serious?

Hear, hear, Werner.
Teresa

[anasazi]

I'm positive that groundhog day doesn't happen for several more months, yet...

I don't know what anybody else's ballot is going to look like but mine will have neither Bush nor Kerry on it. Send them both over to do some SNL skits or something.

[Kevin R]

VDH nails Kerry!

Kerryism [Victor Davis Hanson]

Kerry surely must be one of the saddest Democratic liabilities around. Some afterthoughts about his latest gaffe, which is one of those rare glimpses into an entire troubled ideology:

(1) How could John Kerry, born into privilege, and then marrying and divorcing and marrying out of and back into greater inherited wealth, lecture anyone at a city college about the ingredients for success in America? If he were to give personal advice about making it, it would have to be to marry rich women. Nothing he has accomplished as a senator or candidate reveals either much natural intelligence or singular education. Today, Democrats must be wondering why they have embraced an overrated empty suit, and ostracized a real talent like Joe Lieberman.

(2) How could Kerry possibly claim that he was thinking of the uneducated in the context of George Bush, who, after all, went to Harvard and Yale?

(3) Some of the brightest and most educated Americans are not only in the military, but veterans of Iraq. Two of the best educated minds I have met-Col. Bill Hix and Lt. Col. Chris Gibson, both Hoover Security Fellows-were both Iraqi veterans. What is striking about visiting Iraq is the wealth of talent there, from privates to generals. Without being gratuitously cruel, the problem of mediocrity is not in the ranks of the military, but on our university campuses, where half-educated professors and non-serious students killing time are ubiquitous. Personally, I'd wager the intelligence of a Marine Corps private any day over the average D.C. journalist. Every naval officer I met at the USNA, without exception, seemed brighter than John Kerry, whose "brilliance", after all, has managed to offend millions of voters on the eve of a pivotal election. If the Democrats lose, it will be almost painful to watch the recriminations against Kerry fly.

(4) This is not the first, but third, time he has denigrated soldiers in the middle of a war-and there is a systematic theme: John Kerry's assumed superior morality allows him to pass judgment from on high about supposedly lesser folk who become tools of a suspect military: thus we go from limb-loppers and Genghis' hordes to terrorists to dead-beats. The only constant is that the haughtiness is always delivered in the same sanctimonious, self-righteous, and patronizing tone.

(5) The mea culpa that Democrats are blaming the war and not the warriors is laughable after Sens. Durbin, Kennedy, and Kerry have collectively compared American soldiers to Nazis, Pol Pot's killers, Stalinists, terrorists, and Baathists.

(6) The problem is that Kerry is not just a senator, but the most recent presidential candidate of the Democratic Party, and thus in some sense, especially given the diminution of Howard Dean, the megaphone of the entire party.

(7) His pathetic clarification, as he blamed everyone from Tony Snow to Rush Limbaugh, displayed the same Al Gore derangement syndrome, and thus raises a larger question: what is it about George Bush that seems to reduce once sober and experienced liberal pros to infantile ranting?

(8) And why is the supposedly lame Bush so careful in speech, and the self-acclaimed geniuses like a Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, or Howard Dean serially spouting ever more stupidities? For all the Democrats' criticism of George Bush, I can't think of a modern President who has so infrequently put his foot in his public mouth, and, by the same token, can't think of any opposition that on the eve of elections seems to have an almost pathological death wish.

The Democrats should use this occasion to have an autopsy of Kerryism, or this strange new tony liberalism, that has turned noblisse oblige on its head. It used to be that millionaire FDRs and JFKs felt sympathy for those of the lower classes and wished to ensure that the hoi polloi had some shot at the American dream. But today's elite liberals-a Howard Dean, Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, George Soros, Ted Turner-love the high life and playact at being leftists simply because they are already insulated from the effects of their own nostrums that always come at someone poorer's expense while providing them some sort of psychological relief from guilt. Poor Harry Truman must be turning over in his grave-from bourbon, cigars, and poker to wind-surfing and L.L. Bean costume of the day says it all.

Posted at 8:35 AM

[Kevin R]

http://www.drudgereport.com/irak.jpg

[pizza]

Okay, folks, here is the question:

Kerry botched a stupid joke.

Bush (and Co.) botched Iraq.

Which is more serious?

Kerry tried to turn his stupidity into a botched joke. There was nothing funny about his statement anyway you slice it. Nobody's buying it -- not even you, Werner.

As to what's serious, the war in Iraq is serious. It isn't over yet and it may not be over for a long time. The all-knowing geniuses sitting in their comfy armchairs are quick with all the answers. Too bad they don't even know a few of the important questions.

Similar experience elsewhere has shown that this kind of war isn't going to be won by throwing in more troops and more armaments. The gathering of reliable intelligence is one of the most important keys to a successful outcome. How do you suppose the Israelis stop 50 would-be suicide bombers for every one that makes it over the green line?

As far as botched efforts are concerned, if Iraq is ultimately botched, and the outcome is far from clear, Bush is in good company. Your heroes did some pretty heavy-duty botching of their own:

Churchill botched Gallipoli and was written off as a complete failure.

Roosevelt botched Yalta and handed eastern Europe to Stalin on a silver platter.

Truman botched Korea and we're paying for it even as we speak.

Bush tightened homeland security -- notwithstanding the shameful political squaking of his opponents; he toppled the Taliban and ousted a horrendous tyrant from Iraq. He still has the opportunity to end Iran's nuclear ambitions.

In the words of the great and immortal Yogi Berra, "It ain't over 'til it's over!"

[pizza]

http://www.drudgereport.com/irak.jpg

[Lilith]

Of course,l no one is really addressing the substance of Kerry's unfortunate remarks. Is he right?

[Ralph]

Yes, Pizza is correct. There have been many "botchers" in history and some went on to greatness.

I don't hear people raising any issue about toppling the Taliban (although they are showing they weren't fully toppled). Iraq is another matter and a stupid comment by Kerry in no way deflects the criticism and condemnation that very many Americans are focusing on this administration;'s failed policies.

[Alberich]

Thank God (and the electorate)
this man did not win the
Presidency. If he had, we'd all be on our prayer
rugs a couple of times a day. Chilling.

[jbuck919]

Thank God (and the electorate)
this man did not win the
Presidency. If he had, we'd all be on our prayer
rugs a couple of times a day. Chilling.

And what exactly do you think we are doing under Bush?

[Alberich]

Thank God (and the electorate)
this man did not win the
Presidency. If he had, we'd all be on our prayer
rugs a couple of times a day. Chilling.

And what exactly do you think we are doing under Bush?

Perhaps I did not make myself clear.
I meant that, under a Kerry Presidency
we'd be speaking Arabic or whatever language
and kow-towing to Allah. In other words, we'd be
overrun by the towelheads. I don't know what YOU are
doing under the bushes, but I am happy that the other
guy did not win.

[Lilith]

Of course, no one is really addressing the substance of Kerry's unfortunate remarks. Is he right?

[Barry]

No. I forget where I read that the average military person is better educated than the average non-military person of the same age.

Military people are trained in so many more things than they used to be, not all of it grunt work by any stretch. It's not the kind of stuff that people who don't have at least a decent head on their shoulders can do.

[Lilith]

Do you think this Iraq 'war' would be going on if we had to have a draft?

Would you be happy if nephew came up to you and said he was thinking of enlisting in the Army or Marines? Would you want your nephew in Iraq? (I am assuming you like your nephew)

Are you aware that the Army has been lowering standards to be able to reach their enlistment goals?

What do you think this war is going to do to the condition of the Nat'l Guard and the Reserves over the next 10 years of so?

I guess my bottom line question is this: With 60% + of US people disapproving this war - and surveys point to the more education a person has, the greater the disapproval - what kind of people WILL enlist to be sent to Iraq?

[Barry]

If I had a nephew, I'd be extremely proud of him if he wanted to serve in the military, be it at wartime or peacetime. Sure, I'd worry while he was in Iraq, just as anyone would. But I'd also understand the importance of what he's doing and admire him to no end for doing it.

[Ralph]

If I had a nephew, I'd be extremely proud of him if he wanted to serve in the military, be it at wartime or peacetime. Sure, I'd worry while he was in Iraq, just as anyone would. But I'd also understand the importance of what he's doing and admire him to no end for doing it.

*****

So, Barry, how about a hypothetical niece?

[jbuck919]

Thank God (and the electorate)
this man did not win the
Presidency. If he had, we'd all be on our prayer
rugs a couple of times a day. Chilling.

And what exactly do you think we are doing under Bush?

Perhaps I did not make myself clear.
I meant that, under a Kerry Presidency
we'd be speaking Arabic or whatever language
and kow-towing to Allah. In other words, we'd be
overrun by the towelheads. I don't know what YOU are
doing under the bushes, but I am happy that the other
guy did not win.

You were making yourself perfectly clear. Perhaps I am being too subtle. Have you ever seen the movie Fahrenheit 911?

[Barry]

If I had a nephew, I'd be extremely proud of him if he wanted to serve in the military, be it at wartime or peacetime. Sure, I'd worry while he was in Iraq, just as anyone would. But I'd also understand the importance of what he's doing and admire him to no end for doing it.

*****

So, Barry, how about a hypothetical niece?

Likewise. I only used nephew because that's the question that was posed to me.

[jbuck919]

If I had a nephew, I'd be extremely proud of him if he wanted to serve in the military, be it at wartime or peacetime. Sure, I'd worry while he was in Iraq, just as anyone would. But I'd also understand the importance of what he's doing and admire him to no end for doing it.

*****

So, Barry, how about a hypothetical niece?

Likewise. I only used nephew because that's the question that was posed to me.

Gosh, Barry, I made an assumption that it wasn't "son" for other reasons, until I went back and read the thread (it being my habit occasionally to read threads backwards).

[Lilith]

I would not be proud of a nephew who enlisted in the service at this time with a high probability of being sent to fight in Iraq.
Foolhardy is too soft a word, but it comes to mind. To put your life at risk in an action that was illconceived and poorly executed and was and is very probably not in the interests of this country would be foolhardy to say the least.

[Länzchen]

Perhaps I did not make myself clear.
I meant that, under a Kerry Presidency
we'd be speaking Arabic or whatever language
and kow-towing to Allah. In other words, we'd be
overrun by the towelheads. I don't know what YOU are
doing under the bushes, but I am happy that the other
guy did not win.

wow.

[RebLem]

Perhaps I did not make myself clear.
I meant that, under a Kerry Presidency
we'd be speaking Arabic or whatever language
and kow-towing to Allah. In other words, we'd be
overrun by the towelheads. I don't know what YOU are
doing under the bushes, but I am happy that the other
guy did not win.

wow.

Lance, I'm guessing you recognize hyperbole when you see it?

[Alberich]

You'd first need to define for him and all of us
that big word you used. We're in awe of
your brilliance, and are honoured that
you've condescended to truck with us here.

Sure, hyperbole is a useful writing tool - everyone here,
including your exalted self, uses it. But, let's see how the oracle
responds to your question. It'll be interesting when
he delivers his ANSWER - my goodness! - is it REALLY
hyperbole???? We tingle as we await the WORD...

[Madame]

You'd first need to define for him and all of us
that big word you used. We're in awe of
your brilliance, and are honoured that
you've condescended to truck with us here.

Sure, hyperbole is a useful writing tool - everyone here,
including your exalted self, uses it. But, let's see how the oracle
responds to your question. It'll be interesting when
he delivers his ANSWER - my goodness! - is it
hyperbole???? We tingle as we await the WORD...

Anyone who is educated or at least has a Webster's at hand knows that hyperbole is a curve in the Cartesian plane defined by the equation :

Ax2 + Bxy + Cy2 + Dx + Ey + F = 0

such that B2 > 4AC, where all of the coefficients are real, and where more than one solution, defining a pair of points (x, y) on the hyperbole, exists

What's all the fuss about?