"Borat" Litigation Alert!

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Ralph
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"Borat" Litigation Alert!

Post by Ralph » Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:08 pm

Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:

ABCNEWS.com has learned Romanian villagers are planning to sue Sacha Baron Cohen and 20th Century Fox over
the movie "Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan."

ABCNEWS.com traveled to the village in Romania where Cohen filmed some of the movie.
To hear what the villagers
had to say, log on to ABCNEWS.com tomorrow, Nov.17, at 11 a.m. ET.
Image

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein

Brendan

Post by Brendan » Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:46 pm

The advertising he is getting from the Khazak govenrment and now Romanian villages is priceless. I got over Borat years ago on the Ali G show, but his attacks on PC are always welcome. Accusing Cohen of anti-semitism is always good for a laugh.

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Post by Alberich » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:09 pm

I can imagine the lawyers lining up
to represent and look out for those
poor, put-upon villagers. Do they get
a third of the take - what is the exchange rate for the
lei? About 40 cents - hmmmm....

Madame
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Post by Madame » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:34 pm

Brendan wrote: Accusing Cohen of anti-semitism is always good for a laugh.
I'm holding my sides over that one, too -- he is SO smart, I'll bet it's part of his shtick.

He is a delightful interview when out of character, I'd like to see him do straight stand-up.

Ted

Post by Ted » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:54 pm

Cohen should be applauded for his courage as a performer—he can be very funny at times— I don’t much like His Ali G persona for he does not rightly represent himself to the interviewees and consequently all the humor, unbeknownst to them is at their expense.
As for Borat’s anti-Semitic shtick, as with all racial humor there are always far too many who don’t realize it’s a joke

Brendan

Post by Brendan » Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:35 pm

Those who like Cohen's brand of kamakaze humour may appreciate The Gunston Tapes, featuring the long-time bane of internation press conferences and media personalities - Australia's own Norman Gunston (aka Gary MacDonald). Few people could get away with asking Paul McCartney in the 70s "Is there any truth to the rumour that you are, in fact, dead?" Ali and/or Frasier didn't know whether to punch him or call security. Few were able to render Ali speechless before Parkinsons.

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Post by Ralph » Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:39 pm

Woman in 'Borat' seeks investigation
11/16/2006, 10:45 p.m. ET
By PETER PRENGAMAN
The Associated Press

LOS ANGELES (AP) — The owner of an etiquette business who was handed a plastic bag supposedly containing feces in the hit movie "Borat" says she was told the filming would be used for a documentary in Belarus.

Cindy Streit said she filed a complaint Thursday with California Attorney General Bill Lockyer, requesting an investigation into possible violations of the California Unfair Trade Practices Act.

Streit said that a representative from a Los Angeles-based company called Springland Films contacted her Birmingham, Ala.-based company, Etiquette Training Services, about arranging an etiquette session for an "international guest from Belarus Television."

Attempts to find a contact for Springland were not successful. The company had no phone listing and Streit's lawyers declined to provide copies of the contracts allegedly signed.

The attorney general's office had not received a copy of the complaint, spokesman Nathan Barankin said late Thursday.

Streit said she arranged in Alabama both a sit-down session with Borat, played by comedian Sacha Baron Cohen, and a dinner party with some of her friends. Clips of both appear in the movie "Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit of Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan."

Though awkward at times, the dinner went well until Borat asked to use the bathroom, Streit said.

"I had taught him to excuse himself. He did that correctly and went upstairs," Streit told The Associated Press. "The next thing that happened is that he came down the stairs holding this plastic bag with whatever was in it."

"My horror was that he had brought a bag of feces to my dinner table," she said.

Springland put in writing that the second of two scheduled sessions "will be filmed as part of a documentary for Belarus Television and for those purposes only," said Gloria Allred, Streit's lawyer.

Streit, 59, said she requested an investigation by the attorney general instead of filing a lawsuit in hopes of setting a precedent that will make movie studios think twice before using other ordinary citizens for "reality movies." However, she said she wouldn't rule out a lawsuit.

Streit's demand follows complaints by others shown in the film, including a lawsuit filed by two fraternity members from a South Carolina university who appear in the film drunk.
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein

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Post by Ralph » Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:41 pm

'Borat' actor defends his creation

NEW YORK (Reuters) -- British comedian Sacha Baron Cohen has stepped out of Borat's unwashed, gray suit and dropped the misogyny to defend his controversial movie about an anti-Semitic, fictional TV journalist from Kazakhstan.

In an interview with Rolling Stone magazine released on Wednesday, Baron Cohen, 35, said he was surprised the film had caused such offense in Kazakhstan or that its humor had been so misinterpreted.

"The joke is not on Kazakhstan," he said. "I think the joke is on people who can believe that the Kazakhstan that I describe can exist -- who believe that there's a country where homosexuals wear blue hats and the women live in cages and they drink fermented horse urine."

He said he always had faith in the audience to realize this was a fictitious country and the mere purpose of it was to allow people to expose their own prejudices.

"I think part of the movie shows the absurdity of holding any form of racial prejudice, whether it's hatred of African-Americans or of Jews," said Baron Cohen, a devout Jew who keeps Kosher and observes the Sabbath when he can.

The Rolling Stone interview was the first time Cohen has publicly come out of character since controversy erupted over the movie "Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan." The film has topped the North American box office for the past two weeks.

Borat's racist and sexist antics have upset Kazakh officials and various unwitting co-stars who appeared in the faux documentary as Borat traveled around the United States in a quest to discover the heart of America.

Two fraternity brothers filed lawsuits in Los Angeles claiming they were plied with alcohol before making racist and sexist remarks in the film while a British newspaper reported that the residents of an impoverished Romanian village who appear in "Borat" may do the same.

Cambridge-educated Baron Cohen said his parents "love" the Jewish humor in Borat, and his 91-year-old maternal grandmother even went to a midnight screening in Israel, then phoned to compliment him.
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein

Ted

Post by Ted » Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:58 pm

and his 91-year-old maternal grandmother even went to a midnight screening in Israel, then phoned to compliment him.
Talk about “some of my best friends are.....”
said Baron Cohen, a devout Jew who keeps Kosher and observes the Sabbath when he can.
Gotta love that if you really are devout

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Post by RebLem » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:36 am

Here is a review which appeared in the Nov 2 issue of Albuquerque's The Weekly Alibi with which I substantially agree. RebLem

Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan

Faux documentary tries to be offensive and funny, manages 50 percent of its goals


By Devin D. O’Leary

Directed by Larry Charles
Starring Sacha Baron Cohen, Pamela Anderson

Is British comedian Sacha Baron Cohen (creator of “Da Ali G Show” and the face behind phony journalist Borat) funny because he's an annoying jerk or is he funny because he's pretending to be an annoying jerk? Either way, the end result is the same--which leads me to this review’s preemptory confession. I don’t find Cohen funny. I’ve never found him funny. Madonna thinks he’s hilarious, but that’s just one of the many differences between us. So it should come as no surprise that I hated Cohen’s new movie Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan . The film is crude, juvenile and rancidly offensive. I didn’t so much as crack a smile while watching it. Plus, I felt kinda queasy afterward.


But that is not to say there aren’t some of you out there who will consider this the funniest movie ever made. I fully admit that. The man has fans. If you’re one of them, you’ll probably laugh your ass off. Nonetheless, I firmly maintain this film deserves to be flushed onto the crapheap of unwatchable, should-never-have-been-made comedies alongside Carrot Top’s Chairman of the Board , Tom Green’s Freddy Got Fingered and Larry the Cable Guy’s Larry the Cable Guy: Health Inspector.

Rabid fans of Cohen will be instantly comfortable with Borat , having familiarized themselves with the character in his previous “Da Ali G Show” appearances. Like fellow TV pranksters Ashton Kutcher, Jamie Kennedy and Howie Mandel (what fine company to be in), Cohen frequently dresses up as outrageous ethnic stereotypes (Arabs, Asians, Frenchmen) and interviews people either too stupid or too polite to recognize they’re being pranked.

The film is set up as a faux documentary about clueless Kazakhstani journalist Borat Sagdiyev (Cohen), who comes to America to profile “the greatest country on Earth.” What follows is a string of real-life, “Jackass”-esque pranks pulled off by the always-in-character Cohen. The purpose (I’m guessing) is to expose Americans as a bunch of racist xenophobes while more-or-less repeating Yakov Smirnov’s “Vat a country!” schtick from 1986.

Some might argue that Cohen is, in reality, a thoroughly enlightened, non-racist, non-jerky humorist whose assaultive style of comedy exposes certain truths about his chosen subjects. He’s like Lenny Bruce with a fake mustache, or Ghandi with a potty mouth. But I’m not buying it.

Will it come as a surprise to any viewers that if you appear at a rodeo in the heartland of America and start making up rude words to the National Anthem people in cowboy hats will start booing you? It shouldn’t. Are you really exposing the inherent racism of Southerners if you show up to a formal dinner party, insult the hosts, make sexist remarks, carry around a baggie full of dookie and then get thrown out when you “invite” a scantily clad prostitute (who happens to be black) to dinner? No. In that instance, you’re just being a jerk. And, as it turns out, a lot of people don’t like jerks. In fact, it seems to me, most of the people being pranked, punk’d or otherwise messed with in this film are extraordinarily tolerant of this idiotic “foreigner.”

The film’s road trip script centers around a slim excuse for a story (Borat sees Pamela Anderson on TV and decides he’s going to drive across America and marry her). But that’s really only the flimsiest of clotheslines on which to string Cohen’s random cross-country pranks, many of which come across surprisingly flat. One sequence has Borat visiting an exotic animal farm where he mistakes every animal for a dog. Isn’t that just bust-a-gut funny? Another slapstick-saturated sequence has him falling down and breaking all the merchandise in a mom-and-pop antique shop. As a punch line, he stiffs the elderly owners. Hilarious, no?

If you aren’t already a dyed-in-the-wool Cohen maniac, you should probably stay far away from this one. (20 th Century Fox seems to agree, having slashed the opening weekend from 2,000 screens across America to a mere 700.) Nonfans will spend what little time they can actually stomach staring aghast at (for example) the near-endless footage of fat, fully nude guys wrestling that constitutes this film's height of humor. (Heck, even Cohen fans may find the near-gynecological examination of hirsute assholes a bit much to take.)

What Kazakhstan did to deserve such vitriol from the British comedian is beyond me. The central Asian country is portrayed as a nation of stupid, poverty-stricken, racist, incestuous anti-Semites. Outrageous? Yes. Offensive? Yes. Funny? No. Go ahead, brand me as a humorless snob if you want to. I’ll just go back to watching highbrow stuff like “Benny Hill.”


http://www.alibi.com/index.php?story=16870&scn=film
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

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Borat

Post by Agnes Selby » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:26 am

Borat is now in Australia or perhaps he has already departed.
Most people here are not very impressed with his humour and
don't find it funny. Crass to the extreme but not funny.

The Jewish population is not laughing, the homosexuals are not
laughing, in fact no one is laughing.

I am sure his grandmother would like him even if he sat in
a tree and kept scratching himself like a monkey.

Regards,
Agnes.

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Re: Borat

Post by RebLem » Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:45 am

Agnes Selby wrote:Borat is now in Australia or perhaps he has already departed.
Most people here are not very impressed with his humour and
don't find it funny. Crass to the extreme but not funny.

The Jewish population is not laughing, the homosexuals are not
laughing, in fact no one is laughing.

I am sure his grandmother would like him even if he sat in
a tree and kept scratching himself like a monkey.

Regards,
Agnes.
You should try to appreciate, Agnes, that some people here are so tired of a certain particular stupid person causing all kinds of tragedies and problems around the world that its almost a relief to watch a stupid person who is doing little harm. It does, some feel, help one steel oneself for the next 2 years.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

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Post by Madame » Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:52 am

Ted wrote:Cohen should be applauded for his courage as a performer—he can be very funny at times— I don’t much like His Ali G persona for he does not rightly represent himself to the interviewees and consequently all the humor, unbeknownst to them is at their expense.
As for Borat’s anti-Semitic shtick, as with all racial humor there are always far too many who don’t realize it’s a joke
I've only seen a couple of Ali G. "interviews" -- my favorite talking with Pat Buchanan about the dangerous chemical weapons in Iraq, he called them BLT's, and then let Pat reply, and everytime he said BLT's I laughed so hard. The other one -- somehow he got Donald Trump's attention, the Donald told him he only had x amount of minutes, Ali started and Trump shook his head and walked away. I think Ali's running out of places to work.

Ted

Post by Ted » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:31 am

I've only seen a couple of Ali G. "interviews" -- my favorite talking with Pat Buchanan about the dangerous chemical weapons in Iraq, he called them BLT's, and then let Pat reply, and everytime he said BLT's I laughed so hard. The other one -- somehow he got Donald Trump's attention, the Donald told him he only had x amount of minutes, Ali started and Trump shook his head and walked away. I think Ali's running out of places to work.

Andy Rooney does not suffer fools gladly as Ali G Found out in short order

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Post by RebLem » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:17 am

Ted wrote:
I've only seen a couple of Ali G. "interviews" -- my favorite talking with Pat Buchanan about the dangerous chemical weapons in Iraq, he called them BLT's, and then let Pat reply, and everytime he said BLT's I laughed so hard. The other one -- somehow he got Donald Trump's attention, the Donald told him he only had x amount of minutes, Ali started and Trump shook his head and walked away. I think Ali's running out of places to work.

Andy Rooney does not suffer fools gladly as Ali G Found out in short order
Yes, but Henry Kissinger has been talking with George Bush lately, so obviously, he does.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

Agnes Selby
Author of Constanze Mozart's biography
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Re: Borat

Post by Agnes Selby » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:58 pm

RebLem wrote:
Agnes Selby wrote:Borat is now in Australia or perhaps he has already departed.
Most people here are not very impressed with his humour and
don't find it funny. Crass to the extreme but not funny.

The Jewish population is not laughing, the homosexuals are not
laughing, in fact no one is laughing.

I am sure his grandmother would like him even if he sat in
a tree and kept scratching himself like a monkey.

Regards,
Agnes.
You should try to appreciate, Agnes, that some people here are so tired of a certain particular stupid person causing all kinds of tragedies and problems around the world that its almost a relief to watch a stupid person who is doing little harm. It does, some feel, help one steel oneself for the next 2 years.
-----------------------

Dear Bob,

Thank you for your reply.

I can only respond to your posting from far away Australia as I
no longer live in Philadelphia. Please forgive me if my
perspective is not shared by you.

I am surprised that you are pointing your finger at a certain person who
you suggest, has caused all the problems in the world. For a moment I thought you meant Bin Laden, or the terrorist who orchestrated the attack
on the trains in Spain, or the terrorist reponsible for the destruction of the Trade Center in New York or the terrorist responsible for the recent events in London. Perhaps even the terrorist who threatens our
beautiful cities in Australia, our water supply and our cultural heritage.

You are, of course, referring to your own President, Mr. Bush. I wonder what you and your fellow Liberals would have thought of Bush had he not responded to 9/11? 9/11 was a declaration of war. The enemies of the West considered it a declaration of war.

It was not just a child playing games with planes. It was a well thought out plan, the beginning of a war which will probably plague us for many years to come.

Please think back to world War II. If complacency would have been the answer to the Nazi threat, America and the rest of the Western world would have a different face today.

I note in your reply to me that you are anxious for the next two years to pass and visualise a better world thereafter.

How is this better world going to be achieved? I do not know what
to expect. Is America and the rest of the Western world going to hide behind a bushel and allow the enemies introduce a new world order
or is the war on terror going to continue in an effort to safeguard
humanity from further 9/11s and many other tragedies that the enemy
is already planning even as I write.

If the Democrats win the elections in two years time, will they allow
the Terrorists to win or will they fight for the civilization we now enjoy?
If they allow the Terrorists to gain the upper hand, then they and those who voted them into office will be responsible for the tragedies that await us all.

Kind regards,
Agnes.

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Post by Donald Isler » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:16 pm

Hello Agnes,

9/11 really had nothing to do with liberal/conservative. ANY President of the United States, liberal or conservative, would have gone to war in Afghanistan as Bush did, to defeat the Taliban, who attacked us.

Iraq is different.

Bush chose to start that war when he did, and many people in this country feel that the world is a lot less safe because of the way he and his administration, despite the best efforts of our heroic troops, have bungled it. Also, partly, we feel less safe because the war in Iraq weakened our strength in Afghanistan. We still haven't found Osama, and areas in Afghanistan that we controlled earlier we have lost again because we don't have enough troop strength there.
Donald Isler

Agnes Selby
Author of Constanze Mozart's biography
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War

Post by Agnes Selby » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:51 pm

Donald Isler wrote:Hello Agnes,

9/11 really had nothing to do with liberal/conservative. ANY President of the United States, liberal or conservative, would have gone to war in Afghanistan as Bush did, to defeat the Taliban, who attacked us.

Iraq is different.

Bush chose to start that war when he did, and many people in this country feel that the world is a lot less safe because of the way he and his administration, despite the best efforts of our heroic troops, have bungled it. Also, partly, we feel less safe because the war in Iraq weakened our strength in Afghanistan. We still haven't found Osama, and areas in Afghanistan that we controlled earlier we have lost again because we don't have enough troop strength there.
-----------------

Dear Donald,

I appreciate your point of view. Living as you do in the United States
gives you a different perspective on this whole sorry affair.

I am seeing this as a global war on terror which began on 9/11. As far as Afghanistan is concerned, I cannot see how any army can find a man hiding with some clans in remote villages in Afghanistan. It is like looking for a needle in a haystack. There are other nations involved in this search,
so not finding Bin Laden is not entirely America's fault. Neither is the loss
of gained territory to the Taliban, America is not alone involved in this
battle. One could then blame all leaders of all nations involved in Afghanistan, not only Bush.


As for Iraq, yes, this is a very complex problem. When America went into Iraq, it was believed that Iraq was being liberated from a cruel dictator
who was supposed to possess weapons of mass destruction. This was the
intelligence available at the time. We still do not know if the rambling
trucks the Israelis detected leaving Iraq for Syria did not carry just such weapons. Be it as it may, it was a mistake. Bush was badly advised.
Somehow no one suspected the power of factional animosity between the Shiites and the Sunnis. No one thought that Syria and Iran would
support these factions to fight each other to death.

As we stand now, it would be dangerous to leave Iraq and it is dangerous
to stay there. I cannot see how the Democrats are going to handle
this and succeed to keep the religious factions from killing each other.
It is dangerous for the entire region to withdraw the troops. It is already a breeding ground for al Qaeda. Perhaps the only answer to this problem lies with the Iraqis who should be able to see that a civil war benefits them not an iota.

Whatever happens now, mistakes will again be made.
We cannot pretend that things will become as they were before 9/11,
nor can we expect to follow the British Prime Minister's ideas of involving Syria and Iran. How do we know that these nations are not waiting for just such an opportunity. Control of Middle Eastern oil and Iran's
nuclear ambitions do not augur well for the rest of the world.

As you know, Donald, I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I am a voting Australian. However, whatever happens in American politics affects
the entire world. Like all of us, I would not like to see the collapse of
our civilization, no matter how faulty it is.

Kind regards,
Agnes.

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Post by RebLem » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:30 pm

Dear Agnes,

I concentrate my fire on George Bush rather than bin Laden and various other evildoers for two reasons.

One is that he is the one we are most directly responsible for and whose beahvior we have the greatest opportunity to influence. Please notice how carefully I have parsed that statement. There is a very good case to be built for the proposition that we are also responsible to some extent for bin Laden, since we helped finance and equip much of his operation in Afghanistan when he was fighting the Russians.

The other reason is that some of us are aware of the fact that, although Bush may have less evil in his heart than bin Laden, the great power of the United States gives an American president immensely more power to cause evil, intentionally or otherwise, than many people like bin Laden who are intentionally trying to do evil. Some of us feel a responsibility to try to put a counterweight on the other end of the scale to try to limit the deleterious effects of such acts.

Still, some of the evils in Iraq are the result of our awareness of the limitations on even our power. As General Shinseki warned, we went in with too few troops to do the job. So, what happens is that, to supplement the troops, both officials and others, like the press, and NGOs, have to hire private security to protect them.

Now, this fact has two consequences--first, it limits press coverage of the war, which is precisely what the Bush Administration wants. In Vietnam and other wars, the military was responsible for the security of reporters; in Iraq, everybody has to make their own arrangements, except for a few carefully selected embedded reporters. So, reporting is limited to a few daredevils who dare to go it alone, or those whose organizations can afford to provide expensive private security--and if they can do that, they are probably Republicans who feel they have an interest in validating the Administration approach to things. Another thing that happens is that these private security agencies each have their own protocols on how to deal with the locals, and they are not necessarily as scrupulously respectful of human rights as our own military is supposed to be. So, in addition to the problem of duplicity among military commanders who say one thing and do another with regard to human rights, in addition to the problem of soldiers who disobey established protocols on their own, you have the problem of these gun-toting private security people, each with their own protocols or lack of same, running around doing their own thing in their own way. Under that system, you are going to have lots of abuses of human rights, even if every one of our soldiers is an absolute angel.

And, Agnes, I am frankly enormously disappointed that someone of your perspicacity seems to be falling for the Bush propaganda that we are in Iraq to fight terrorism. When we went in, there were no terrorists in Iraq except Abu Nidal, the mastermind of the Achille Lauro incident, and he was retired. Granted, Hussein encouraged terrorism against Israel by providing $25,000 to the families of every suicide bomber who attacked Israelis. However, at the time we went into Iraq, we went in to find and dispose of alleged WMDs, which turned out not to exist. If Bush wanted to go in to help Israelis deal with terrorism in their land, he should have said so, and let us have an honest public debate about that, but he didn't do that, probably because that really was a very minor consideration in his plans, if it was any at all. Its only come up lately in an effort to find new reasons why it was a good thing anyway, even though the original reason turned out to be bogus.

But think of the miscalculations involved. "We know where they are," said Rummy, speaking of the WMDs. "How long will the war take?" Rummy was asked. "No one can say. Six days, six weeks, I doubt six months," Rummy responded.

And then, in Afghanistan, we went straight for Kabul, and unaccountably took our eyes off the ball and decided not to go for bin Laden ourselves. So, our Afghan "allies" allowed him to escape. Ever hear the phrase, "If you're going to do something, do it right?" Bush violated at every turn, that oldest, hoariest, most fundamental requirement for anything to be considered right action.

And, instead of learning from those failures and correcting them with new safeguards, Bush continues on a policy of compounding those errors. The budget which is overdue for decision by Congress (it was supposed to go into effect Oct 1, 2006) calls for eliminating the Office of the Inspector General for Reconstruction in Iraq, thus eliminating even what little oversight there is over how our reconstruction budget is being spent. It is noteworthy that it was just in the last year that the military finally caught up with Halliburton and disqualified them from being a contractor in Iraq years after it became evident that they were ignoring the specifications established for performance in their no-bid contracts. Some of us feel there is a cause-effect relationship here. Iraq is a great opportunity for Bush to dispense larghesse to his buddies and political contributors, and he doesn't want anybody interfering with that massive, rampant corruption, and is in fact, trying to remove the few remaining barriers, however weak, to it. Democrats are talking about stopping it, but that is where the matter stands at the moment.

Now, let me turn to another matter, and let me disassociate myself from Werner's question of Barry about what staying in Iraq will do for us, though he understands what it might do for Iraq.

The only reason I think we should get out of Iraq is because, at this point at least, it will, in my estimation, be absolutely impossible to succeed in any kind of reasonable mission, whether it was the original one, or just a reduced expectation agenda of providing Iraq with a kinder, gentler dictator on, say, the Mubarak model. If I were persuaded that it were possible, even if it did take 200,000 more troops and 10,000 more American deaths, God help me, I would be in favor of it. But I just don't think it is possible. We have massive evidence that for the first 6 months, even the first year, the Iraqis had a wait and see attitude and that they waited and saw and made up their minds that Bush was up to no good. They had absolutely tons of good evidence to back the rationality of that judgement, some of which are detailed above. Any declaration that we intended to reform ourselves and change course would fall on deaf ears and loud bombs, and for perfectly good reasons. Furthermore, as I detailed in the paragraph on the new budget, there is no evidence that the current administration, as long as it is in power, will do anything but totally resist any effort to make it reform itself and fly right.

I had intended to go on about why it would be a good idea to continue if it were at all possible, but I see this post is already way too long for some of the folk here to be willing to read, so I will stop now.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

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Post by Werner » Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:03 am

I can't believe that this thread started with Borat!
Werner Isler

Agnes Selby
Author of Constanze Mozart's biography
Posts: 5568
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:27 am
Location: Australia

War

Post by Agnes Selby » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:05 am

Thank you, Bob, for your explanation. I appreciate your points of
view but where do we go now? I fear the takeover of Iraq by Iran
with its possible nuclear capability. With oil supplies dwindling, are
we going to have Iran dictate our future and the lives
of our children? Will there be a mighty Islamic superpower which will destroy our civilization?

And, yes, Werner, strange to see this interesting thread which began
with that silly person, Borat. His anti-Semitic remarks were not
greatly appreciated in this country and were not taken in jest.

Kind regards,
Agnes.

Ralph
Dittersdorf Specialist & CMG NY Host
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Location: Paradise on Earth, New York, NY

Post by Ralph » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:59 pm

Judge rejects injunction against 'Borat'
12/11/2006, 8:37 p.m. ET
The Associated Press

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A judge rejected a request by two fraternity brothers to halt the DVD release of the hit spoof movie "Borat." West Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Joseph S. Biderman also refused to order the removal of a scene that includes the two men, who claim they had been duped into misbehaving on camera.

Biderman issued his two-page decision on Friday after hearing arguments the previous day.

The South Carolina fraternity brothers filed a lawsuit Nov. 9 claiming they were tricked into making racist and sexist remarks to British comedian Sacha Baron Cohen in "Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan."

In one scene of the mockumentary, Cohen as rowdy Kazakh journalist Borat hangs out with the men in a motor home and watches the Pamela Anderson-Tommy Lee sex tape.

The fraternity brothers claim the filmmakers got them drunk before getting them to sign release forms agreeing to appear in the film. Their names do not appear in the lawsuit.

The film "made plaintiffs the objects of ridicule, humiliation, mental anguish, and emotional and physical distress," the lawsuit claims.

A trial date for the lawsuit, which seeks unspecified monetary damages, has not been set.

Louis Petrich, an attorney for 20th Century Fox and One America Productions, said he was pleased about the judge's decision.

Calls to the plaintiffs' attorney, Olivier Taillieu, were not immediately returned.
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein

Ted

Post by Ted » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:13 pm

".... the objects of ridicule, humiliation, mental anguish, and emotional and physical distress,"

Sounds like the requirements for being a member here

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