Are YOU Upgrading to VISTA?

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Ralph
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Are YOU Upgrading to VISTA?

Post by Ralph » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:41 pm

I've read a lot of articles about VISTA and some suggest waiting a while. Others say it's a good but not essential upgrade for many.

Any thoughts here?
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Post by jbuck919 » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:48 pm

I can't help you with a direct answer, Ralph, but I can share what I seem to have gotten myself into. In my recentl local substitute teaching, I have run into stuations where if I suggested that their version Windows had obsolete features, they responded that I upgrade to XP. They have never heard of Vista. Looks like I have my work cut out for me.

(I am very far from a Windows or otherwise PC jock and could not believe the other day when I had to help a high-school-age boy print something because the screen came up with the wrong default printer. In terms of my future emplyment, your mouth, folks, to God's ear.)

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Post by DavidRoss » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:00 am

We will probably "upgrade" to Vista shortly after the first Service Pack is out. I've never seen the point of XP. Both at home and at work we are still using W2K Pro with no complaints.
"Most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." ~Leo Tolstoy

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Post by anasazi » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:44 am

:lol: :lol: :lol:

My God, I haven't even upgraded to XP, ME or any of those others yet. Am I the only one here running Windows 98?

What? It still works thank you.

I suppose I will upgrade however, since my machine is about 9 years old. I'll soon have to replace the CD drive and yet another hard drive. May as well get a new PC and at that point, likely a new operating system. If I do not read of the more than normal type of problems with Vista, then I'll try and do that.
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Re: Are YOU Upgrading to VISTA?

Post by Corlyss_D » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:04 am

Ralph wrote:I've read a lot of articles about VISTA and some suggest waiting a while. Others say it's a good but not essential upgrade for many.

Any thoughts here?
If I have to upgrade my memory or my processor, as I've heard could be the case, I'll pass on it.
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Post by RebLem » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:15 am

I am running XP now; this is my first computer, and it came with XP. Probably what I may do is ask people for Circuit City gift certs for my birthday and Christmas, then add some $$$ of my own, and upgrade about this time next year.
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Re: Are YOU Upgrading to VISTA?

Post by Madame » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:12 am

Ralph wrote:I've read a lot of articles about VISTA and some suggest waiting a while. Others say it's a good but not essential upgrade for many.

Any thoughts here?
I just bought a new laptop running XP, but received a free upgrade to Vista for the future -- just had to put my name on the list and when the time comes will be in place. I'll wait and see how others are doing with it, not in a hurry.

Ted

Post by Ted » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:51 pm

If you are running XP with service pack 2 there is no reason to think about Vista until you absolutely need another machine.

But because I have to have the latest OS (for no other reason than my own insanity) I will wait at least a year before I install Vista Ultimate

BorisG

Re: Are YOU Upgrading to VISTA?

Post by BorisG » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:03 pm

Ralph wrote:I've read a lot of articles about VISTA and some suggest waiting a while. Others say it's a good but not essential upgrade for many.

Any thoughts here?
Most current home computers aren't capable of even upgrading to Windows Vista Home Basic. Vista is an OS for their next new computer.

Vista requirements link--

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/g ... grade.mspx

Brendan

Post by Brendan » Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:31 pm

VISTA is to be the next living hell for me professionally (Q4 2007), after I get through the current unfunded project to upgrade mainframe software. No technical reason why, just contractual obligation to upgrade.

At home, I've gone Ubuntu Linux as I'm so sick of dealing with Microsoft product (that doesn't allow a systems guy like me to operate). I want control of my own operating system, and want to program my own computer ( :shock: what a radical concept! Control of my own computer, software and hardware!) to do what I want the way I want, not the Gates/numbskull way.

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Post by piston » Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:50 pm

But for the sake of greater simplicity, Brendan, shouldn't everything be standardized: summer in July; the way water flows down the drain; only one kind of "football" and "baseball", etc. One great big happy planet! :lol:
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)

Brendan

Post by Brendan » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:11 pm

piston wrote:But for the sake of greater simplicity, Brendan, shouldn't everything be standardized: summer in July; the way water flows down the drain; only one kind of "football" and "baseball", etc. One great big happy planet! :lol:
For an Aussie, July is winter, so no chance there, my friend! More diversity and more competition the better, IMHO. There was more happening in PCs 20 years ago, and the word processors, spreadsheets and databases were better and easier to use. Apart from the Net, my PC of 20 years ago was a much more versatile, powerful machine with a greater range of software.

One kind of football in the world would mean soccer, and being a Rugby nut (baseball doesn't rate a mention; Cricket is the bat and ball game of the world) I doubt my ideas of standardization would be welcome. :wink:

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Post by piston » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:21 pm

Brendan wrote:
piston wrote:But for the sake of greater simplicity, Brendan, shouldn't everything be standardized: summer in July; the way water flows down the drain; only one kind of "football" and "baseball", etc. One great big happy planet! :lol:
For an Aussie, July is winter, so no chance there, my friend! More diversity and more competition the better, IMHO. There was more happening in PCs 20 years ago, and the word processors, spreadsheets and databases were better and easier to use. Apart from the Net, my PC of 20 years ago was a much more versatile, powerful machine with a greater range of software.

One kind of football in the world would mean soccer, and being a Rugby nut (baseball doesn't rate a mention; Cricket is the bat and ball game of the world) I doubt my ideas of standardization would be welcome. :wink:
Yeah. That was a bit of humor about summer. I spent some memorable weeks in Sydney, December '88 and December '93. And you guys really know what's a pub! :) :D :lol: We don't want to standardize that either or, if it must be standardized, then I vote for the Aussie model. :wink:
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)

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Post by MegaKitsune » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:35 pm

Am I upgrading to a OS that wastes resources and spys on you?


HELL [colorful exuberant expletive deleted by the site administrator] NO.
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Brendan

Post by Brendan » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:39 pm

MegaKitsune wrote:Am I upgrading to a OS that wastes resources and spys on you?


HELL [colorful exuberant expletive deleted by the site administrator] NO.
OK, now think of having to do it for thousands of machines/users in foreign (Aussie) government departments, with security and confidentiality legislation all over you along with budget restrictions (Microsoft gear wastes so much resources . . .). I'm not looking forward to this. :cry:

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Re: Are YOU Upgrading to VISTA?

Post by living_stradivarius » Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:21 pm

Ralph wrote:I've read a lot of articles about VISTA and some suggest waiting a while. Others say it's a good but not essential upgrade for many.

Any thoughts here?
Unless you want access CMG in high-definition, there's no need to upgrade anything.
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Post by Ralph » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:46 pm

Thanks for the responses. At this point I don't think I'll go with the new OS.
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Post by Ralph » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:29 pm

Gates promises Vista will wow PC buyers
1/29/2007, 4:36 p.m. ET
By JESSICA MINTZ
The Associated Press

NEW YORK (AP) — Acrobatics, blaring music and plenty of hype accompanied Microsoft Corp.'s long-delayed debut of its new Windows Vista operating system.

Hours before the software went on sale in New York, dancers clad in Microsoft colors dangled from ropes high above street level and unfurled flags to form the red, green, blue and yellow Windows logo against a building wall. At a swank midtown eatery, speakers pumped out a hit from hip-hop hotshot Snoop Dogg before Steve Ballmer, Microsoft's chief executive officer, took to stage.

"Vista is the center, the launching point for the next generation of connected entertainment in the home," Ballmer said.

Vista was set to go on sale around the globe Tuesday, along with new versions of Microsoft Exchange e-mail software and the flagship Office business suite, which includes Word, Excel and PowerPoint. Several retailers had even scheduled midnight openings.

But unlike the recent launches of next-generation game machines like Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3, customers haven't been camping out for days.

"When I look at Windows Vista, I see a technology that is interesting, that is relevant, but to some extent is evolutionary," said Al Gillen, an analyst at the technology research group IDC. "I do not believe it will create a lot of motivation for people to rush out and get a new operating system."

In an interview, Microsoft chairman Bill Gates said the company actually wasn't pushing midnight sales events — after all, the software will be available as a download over the Web for the first time. Even that route will be relatively rarely taken — Ballmer acknowledged that, as in the past, most consumers will switch to Vista only when they buy new computers.

More than five years in the making, Vista was released for businesses Nov. 30, but the unveiling for consumers of the latest edition of Windows — which runs more than 90 percent of the world's PCs — only came Tuesday. Vista retails for $100 to $400, depending on the version and whether the user is upgrading from Windows XP.

The Redmond, Wash.-based software maker contends that Vista is such a huge improvement over previous computing platforms that users inevitably say "Wow" when they see it.

Gates ticked off some examples, such as how Vista presents a slick 3-D graphical user interface and document icons that give at-a-glance previews. Gates said the next wow comes when people start using a system-wide search program that Microsoft's engineers built into both the operating system and new versions of Office.

Vista comes as changing dynamics of computing — notably the rise of open-source software and Web-based services that replicate what traditionally could be done only on a desktop computer — are threatening Microsoft's dominance in the industry.

But Gates contended that the operating system has a higher profile than ever before, as the PC has morphed from a souped-up typewriter to a networked entertainment center, personal media library and gateway to the Internet.

"When people think about their PC, they think about Windows even more than who the manufacturer is. That determines how it looks, how you navigate, what the applications are that are available," Gates told The Associated Press. And in this case, Vista has folded in programs that users once bought separately — including automated backup systems and some spyware protections.

Microsoft built Vista so that different layers could be upgraded separately, so it's possible that this is the last massive, all-in-one update for Windows. No matter how Microsoft chooses to roll out Vista's successor, Ballmer said there's still work to be done.

"There's so many areas in which we need innovation. Developers need a richer platform if we're going to get speech, voice, natural language, and more rich 3-D-type graphics into the user interface," Ballmer said. Plus, the technologies around the PC — chips, storage, high-definition DVD will all evolve, he said. "The operating system will need to evolve with them."

"Frankly, we've got a very long list of stuff our engineers want to do, a long list of stuff that the companies here want us to do," he said.

Over the weekend, Dell Inc. started taking orders for PCs with Vista. Kevin Rollins, Dell's chief executive, said the company's Web site saw a 20 percent jump in traffic, with "tens of thousands of copies" of Vista sold for delivery Tuesday or later.

In Tokyo, about 80 people lined up Monday night at the Bic Camera Department Store to become among the world's first consumers to own Vista. Celebrities and executives were on hand as a large-screen TV displayed a countdown to the midnight launch (10 a.m. EST).

The second person in line, Fumihiko Koyama, 33, waited three hours and was hoping the new operating system will make his work in Web design easier.

"My expectations are very high for Vista," he said. "I want to try it out because it's new."

For a Tuesday morning store celebration, DSG International PLC's flagship PC World store in central London hired costumed characters, including Sherlock Holmes for security and a movie star for multimedia.

PC World spokesman Hamish Thompson said some retailers are banking on Vista to push customers toward the higher-end machines needed to run Vista — which imposes such hardware requirements as 1 gigabyte of system memory, or RAM.

Microsoft shares fell 7 cents to close at $30.53 on the Nasdaq Stock Market.

___

Associated Press Writers Hans Greimel in Tokyo and Raphael G. Satter in London contributed to this story.
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Brendan

Post by Brendan » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:43 pm

Ralph wrote:"When people think about their PC, they think about Windows even more than who the manufacturer is. . . " Bill Gates
When I think of Windows I always know which wretched scum gypsy mongrel was responsible. As my Dad said when my brother was in town for xmas and working on Dad's PC: "Mr Gates would need serious bodyguards whenever you two are working on a PC." All I do whenever I work on Windows is swear at Bill Gates and his useless products (and how much such rubbish costs!) for hours on end.

Ubuntu Linux has been such a joy in comparison. And free!

Sorry, just one of one pet peeves (obviously) that seems to get worse with time.

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Post by Ralph » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:03 pm

Brendan wrote:
Ralph wrote:"When people think about their PC, they think about Windows even more than who the manufacturer is. . . " Bill Gates
When I think of Windows I always know which wretched scum gypsy mongrel was responsible. As my Dad said when my brother was in town for xmas and working on Dad's PC: "Mr Gates would need serious bodyguards whenever you two are working on a PC." All I do whenever I work on Windows is swear at Bill Gates and his useless products (and how much such rubbish costs!) for hours on end.

Ubuntu Linux has been such a joy in comparison. And free!

Sorry, just one of one pet peeves (obviously) that seems to get worse with time.
*****&

Seriously, Brendan, aren't your remarks just a bit over the top? For folks like me Windows is hardly an issue, especially XP.
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Brendan

Post by Brendan » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:32 pm

Ralph wrote:
Brendan wrote:
Ralph wrote:"When people think about their PC, they think about Windows even more than who the manufacturer is. . . " Bill Gates
When I think of Windows I always know which wretched scum gypsy mongrel was responsible. As my Dad said when my brother was in town for xmas and working on Dad's PC: "Mr Gates would need serious bodyguards whenever you two are working on a PC." All I do whenever I work on Windows is swear at Bill Gates and his useless products (and how much such rubbish costs!) for hours on end.

Ubuntu Linux has been such a joy in comparison. And free!

Sorry, just one of one pet peeves (obviously) that seems to get worse with time.
*****&

Seriously, Brendan, aren't your remarks just a bit over the top? For folks like me Windows is hardly an issue, especially XP.
For a systems programmer (a guy who works inside the operating system) Windows is living hell. Can't get to anything (verboten) and nothing internal is documented, so one is at the mercy of the "plug and play" stuff provided, then try and work out what you've hit as thngs fall over/don't work properly any more. Uninstall is much worse, as DLLs used by multiple apps can disappear.

I recently upgraded Norton anti-virus on my home PC under Windows. I install (and uninstall) mainframe and midrange software for a living, and tweek it at the bit and byte level. Norton's Anti-Virus was the most time-comsuming, frustrating install I have done in years, so the first thing I did was grab a Ubuntu disc and say goodbye to Windows forever.

Working on other people's PCs (hey, Brendan's a bit-head! He'll know how to work this out!) as well as the waste I see every day in a (for Oz) large Government account is appalling to me as an IT professional. Just a nightmare compared to serious computers. My brother may never stay for xmas again, as all he did for weeks was answer Dad's questions and fix every PC in the neighbourhood. I refuse point blank to work on Windows unless paid, from now on.

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Post by MegaKitsune » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:51 pm

Brendan wrote:
Ralph wrote:"When people think about their PC, they think about Windows even more than who the manufacturer is. . . " Bill Gates
When I think of Windows I always know which wretched scum gypsy mongrel was responsible. As my Dad said when my brother was in town for xmas and working on Dad's PC: "Mr Gates would need serious bodyguards whenever you two are working on a PC." All I do whenever I work on Windows is swear at Bill Gates and his useless products (and how much such rubbish costs!) for hours on end.

Ubuntu Linux has been such a joy in comparison. And free!

Sorry, just one of one pet peeves (obviously) that seems to get worse with time.
I curse out Windows too, unfortunately none of my Linux installs seem to work. :(
-MegaKitsune
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Brendan

Post by Brendan » Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:00 pm

MegaKitsune wrote:
Brendan wrote:
Ralph wrote:"When people think about their PC, they think about Windows even more than who the manufacturer is. . . " Bill Gates
When I think of Windows I always know which wretched scum gypsy mongrel was responsible. As my Dad said when my brother was in town for xmas and working on Dad's PC: "Mr Gates would need serious bodyguards whenever you two are working on a PC." All I do whenever I work on Windows is swear at Bill Gates and his useless products (and how much such rubbish costs!) for hours on end.

Ubuntu Linux has been such a joy in comparison. And free!

Sorry, just one of one pet peeves (obviously) that seems to get worse with time.
I curse out Windows too, unfortunately none of my Linux installs seem to work. :(
All I did was put the Ubuntu disc (from a friend's install) in the drive and away it went. Downloads were free, and all seemed to work easily. It's a bit different from SunOs, Solaris, AIX and other Unix variations I've come across, but I've had no issues with it. And I wasn't going to pay Red Hat prices for support.

But to be honest I rarely log on to a machine at home except to surf a bit, and Linux slaughters Windows as regards viruses and security.

Edit/General Note: Concenring my "over-the-top" reaction to Microsoft, I have long thought that if the general public had the faintest clue as to how much they are being ripped off for 3rd-rate software and the loss of productivity and efficiency in large organizations that lock themselves into Microsoft gear, then Mr Gates would not be admired as the world's richest man, but be lycnhed from the nearest lamp-post while a crowd pelted him with rotten fruit. That he is not in gaol for his business practices and deceit shows the worth of donating large sums to both parties. The money made from mass public opinion and marketting for this rot is soul-destroying for anyone who could see the potential in PCs 20 years ago.

Just my humble opinion, of course.
Last edited by Brendan on Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ted

Post by Ted » Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:04 pm

Brendan Wrote:
As my Dad said when my brother was in town for xmas and working on Dad's PC: "Mr Gates would need serious bodyguards whenever you two are working on a PC."

Now you know why they call it Windows….Cause it’s a “Pane”

(or used to be)

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Post by Ralph » Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:52 pm

Ted wrote:Brendan Wrote:
As my Dad said when my brother was in town for xmas and working on Dad's PC: "Mr Gates would need serious bodyguards whenever you two are working on a PC."

Now you know why they call it Windows….Cause it’s a “Pane”

(or used to be)
*****

Very good! LOL!
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Post by living_stradivarius » Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:58 pm

I think I'll wait until Intel's new chip technology become standard in home computers before I upgrade my OS. Before that, I'll be trying out one of those hybrid systems :D
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Post by Gary » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:27 pm

I'm generally happy with XP which came with the current computer (finally got a new one three months ago).

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Post by Ralph » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:35 pm

Bill Gates was on The Daily Show With Jon Stewart tonight. What a great guy! Just like you and me. I bet he'd love posting here.
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Post by MegaKitsune » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:41 pm

Ralph wrote: What a great guy! Just like you and me.
Well you and me don't have connections to SATAN.... >_<
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Post by Corlyss_D » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:20 am

Ralph wrote:Seriously, Brendan, aren't your remarks just a bit over the top? For folks like me Windows is hardly an issue, especially XP.
Gates deserves accolades for forcing standardization when chaos could have easily shunted the PC onto the geek-track forever. Imagine where we'd be today if software and hardware were where they were in 1984. However, I sympathize with sophisticates who resent the downsides of Gates' monopoly.
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Post by anasazi » Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:23 am

Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote:Seriously, Brendan, aren't your remarks just a bit over the top? For folks like me Windows is hardly an issue, especially XP.
Gates deserves accolades for forcing standardization when chaos could have easily shunted the PC onto the geek-track forever. Imagine where we'd be today if software and hardware were where they were in 1984. However, I sympathize with sophisticates who resent the downsides of Gates' monopoly.
Where software and hardware were in 1984 was mostly free of computer viruses. That's probably not what you meant, I know, just a little joke. :D

But just remember that Gates did not force standardization as it being a good thing for users or anyone else. He and his company simply won the war with the competition (except for those pesky Mac users).
"Take only pictures, leave only footprints" - John Muir.

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Post by Holden Fourth » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:18 am

Like all Microsloth products Vista will be full of bugs and security problems. I'm very happy for all the "I must have the latest software now fuckwits" to test Vista for me and I might buy in at SP1. They are still patching up XP so just imagine what Vista will be like.

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Post by lmpower » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:09 pm

I am running XP and don't intend to get Vista until I buy another computer. Both of my sons are Apple fans so they don't have to worry as much about Microsoft.

Brendan

Post by Brendan » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:45 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote:Seriously, Brendan, aren't your remarks just a bit over the top? For folks like me Windows is hardly an issue, especially XP.
Gates deserves accolades for forcing standardization when chaos could have easily shunted the PC onto the geek-track forever. Imagine where we'd be today if software and hardware were where they were in 1984. However, I sympathize with sophisticates who resent the downsides of Gates' monopoly.
Gates did not "standardize" anything: he told everyone to develop software for OS2 then pulled the plug at the last minute after many of his competetors, and most of the small developers, had spent their $$$ going down a totally false path. The internal Microsoft minute recently leaked showing that the main design requirement for Windows was that Lotus products would not work properly is also quite revealing about his notions of "standardizing" the industry.

Standardizing on about the least efficient, most costly and wasteful-of-resources software marketed (in a virtual monopoly) also has its consequences, IMHO. Linux manages standards, and we kicked that problem to death in mainframeland decades ago, quite easily in open source.

I better get off this hobby-horse. Just the thought of MS gear and the mega-waste involved gives me the Wiggins.

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Re: Are YOU Upgrading to VISTA?

Post by burnitdown » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:48 pm

Ralph wrote:I've read a lot of articles about VISTA and some suggest waiting a while. Others say it's a good but not essential upgrade for many.
Very few people, outside of developers, will "need" it and it won't be mature for at least a year and a half. For today's technology, XP will be good for quite awhile.

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Post by jserraglio » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:25 am

Brendan wrote:
Ralph wrote:
Brendan wrote:
Ralph wrote:"When people think about their PC, they think about Windows even more than who the manufacturer is. . . " Bill Gates
When I think of Windows I always know which wretched scum gypsy mongrel was responsible. As my Dad said when my brother was in town for xmas and working on Dad's PC: "Mr Gates would need serious bodyguards whenever you two are working on a PC." All I do whenever I work on Windows is swear at Bill Gates and his useless products (and how much such rubbish costs!) for hours on end.

Ubuntu Linux has been such a joy in comparison. And free!

Sorry, just one of one pet peeves (obviously) that seems to get worse with time.
*****&

Seriously, Brendan, aren't your remarks just a bit over the top? For folks like me Windows is hardly an issue, especially XP.
For a systems programmer (a guy who works inside the operating system) Windows is living hell. Can't get to anything (verboten) and nothing internal is documented, so one is at the mercy of the "plug and play" stuff provided, then try and work out what you've hit as thngs fall over/don't work properly any more. Uninstall is much worse, as DLLs used by multiple apps can disappear.

I recently upgraded Norton anti-virus on my home PC under Windows. I install (and uninstall) mainframe and midrange software for a living, and tweek it at the bit and byte level. Norton's Anti-Virus was the most time-comsuming, frustrating install I have done in years, so the first thing I did was grab a Ubuntu disc and say goodbye to Windows forever.

Working on other people's PCs (hey, Brendan's a bit-head! He'll know how to work this out!) as well as the waste I see every day in a (for Oz) large Government account is appalling to me as an IT professional. Just a nightmare compared to serious computers. My brother may never stay for xmas again, as all he did for weeks was answer Dad's questions and fix every PC in the neighbourhood. I refuse point blank to work on Windows unless paid, from now on.
Yes, Brendan may be too hard on Microsoft but I think he has a point. And it isnt just systems programmers that have trouble with Windows. We struggle with it every day at work where we are wedded to Windows and Windows networking in a tumultuous marriage of inconvenience.

More to the point, Brendan's dad's experience is typical of that of many less experienced users. It shouldnt be that intimidating to use a computer. Jon Stewart raised the issue last week, taunting Bill Gates, something along the lines of "What if I don't know how to use it?" Gates did not seem especially amused and may have departed abruptly at the end to show his displeasure.

I took Brendan's advice last summer and requested the free CD containing Ubuntu/Linux. It worked just as he described--nothing for me to do but pop it in the drive and turn on the computer, no installation necessary so I couldnt mess up Windows any more than it already is. I checked with a tech guy at work -- he knew about Ubuntu and had it fully installed on his notebook hard drive -- booting either to Ubuntu or XP at need. He too praised Ubuntu highly.

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Post by miranda » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:21 am

Brendan, I'm no expert, but I will never use Norton again. It's not worth paying for an inferior product when I can just use AVG (which, the last time I checked, is still free, although now it's linked with ewido anti-spyware, which, while being an excellent anti-spyware system, is not.)

I can't wait to get a Mac and not have to deal with all this spyware/virus. b.s. I look forward to saying "goodbye, Windows!" forever.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.

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Post by jserraglio » Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:09 am

No Norton for me either.

Comodo offers free of charge a number of excellent security products: Firewall, Anti-Spam, Anti-Virus, an Anti-Phishing Verification Engine, an instantaneous Password Logon iVault, and a Backup Engine, all of which are uncrippled, full versions, free for life and easy to install and manage.

Their antispam product uses a challenge/response method but it imports your Outlook or Thunderbird address book so your good guys are not blocked. I've gone from 80+ spams a day to maybe 1 or 2 a week at most.

I've used AVG but greatly prefer Comodo.

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Post by Holden Fourth » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:44 pm

jserraglio wrote:No Norton for me either.

Comodo offers free of charge a number of excellent security products: Firewall, Anti-Spam, Anti-Virus, an Anti-Phishing Verification Engine, an instantaneous Password Logon iVault, and a Backup Engine, all of which are uncrippled, full versions, free for life and easy to install and manage.

Their antispam product uses a challenge/response method but it imports your Outlook or Thunderbird address book so your good guys are not blocked. I've gone from 80+ spams a day to maybe 1 or 2 a week at most.

I've used AVG but greatly prefer Comodo.
Yes, the Comodo FW is tops but their other security products still need a lot of work and are best avoided until they sort it out (which I'm sure they will)

Brendan

Post by Brendan » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:00 pm

Jst FYI, my dad bought his Norton's upgrade and it is licenced for 3 machines, so he gave one to my brother and one to me. The install isn't that hard to follow, it's just that it insisted I rip out three or four other packages before it would go in, and all sorts of weirdness ensued that took days if not a couple of weeks to clean up. And makes using my PC feel like plodding through a swamp just so the hack-every-2-seconds that occurs to Windows machines online doesn't get through.

But I have to have a Windows machine. My bosses and the general public insist it's the only way to go. Why get good software for free when you can pay a fortune for garbage?

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Post by jserraglio » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:40 pm

Holden Fourth wrote:Yes, the Comodo FW is tops but their other security products still need a lot of work and are best avoided until they sort it out (which I'm sure they will)
Thank you for the heads up on Comodo. I'll surely be cautious now before using their beta versions. I use their Firewall, of course, and their AntiSpam has finally solved my spam problem entirely with a minimum of inconvenience to senders not on my whitelist. Anyone not willing to respond with a simple four-letter authentication code is probably not one I need to communicate with.

For Antivirus though, I use Avast!Antivirus, free, you need only to register once a year.

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Post by burnitdown » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:40 pm

anasazi wrote:Where software and hardware were in 1984 was mostly free of computer viruses.
Not really. The C-64s and early PCs were rotten with boot sectors and trojans.

The only difference: no HD, thus no persistence.

Ah, the good ol' days... back when computing was a real frontier (sob)

Brendan

Post by Brendan » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:57 pm

burnitdown wrote:
anasazi wrote:Where software and hardware were in 1984 was mostly free of computer viruses.
Not really. The C-64s and early PCs were rotten with boot sectors and trojans.

The only difference: no HD, thus no persistence.

Ah, the good ol' days... back when computing was a real frontier (sob)
Trojans on PCs that weren't connected to anything? Never heard of such a thing. Didn't have a virus or trojan until the net, but was careful about disc "washing".

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Post by burnitdown » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:03 pm

Brendan wrote:Trojans on PCs that weren't connected to anything? Never heard of such a thing.
Before the net there were modems...

And "sneaker net" for transfer of disks...

Brendan

Post by Brendan » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:25 pm

burnitdown wrote:
Brendan wrote:Trojans on PCs that weren't connected to anything? Never heard of such a thing.
Before the net there were modems...

And "sneaker net" for transfer of disks...
I mentioned disk "washing", and was modem connected long before the web (remember Veronica and Archie?) but even then that wasn't commonly available, and one could easily select where one dialled so there wasn't really a 'net' let alone the web (1992). Bulletin boards and such may have been a source of trojans, but with care (I guess) I never had a problem until the advent of the web.

But I've never been much of one to play with the things at home too long. Talking to geeks was what I did all day anyway. :wink:

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Post by Ralph » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:35 pm

Brendan wrote:
burnitdown wrote:
Brendan wrote:Trojans on PCs that weren't connected to anything? Never heard of such a thing.
Before the net there were modems...

And "sneaker net" for transfer of disks...
I mentioned disk "washing", and was modem connected long before the web (remember Veronica and Archie?) but even then that wasn't commonly available, and one could easily select where one dialled so there wasn't really a 'net' let alone the web (1992). Bulletin boards and such may have been a source of trojans, but with care (I guess) I never had a problem until the advent of the web.

But I've never been much of one to play with the things at home too long. Talking to geeks was what I did all day anyway. :wink:
*****

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Post by anasazi » Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:12 am

burnitdown wrote:
anasazi wrote:Where software and hardware were in 1984 was mostly free of computer viruses.
Not really. The C-64s and early PCs were rotten with boot sectors and trojans.

The only difference: no HD, thus no persistence.

Ah, the good ol' days... back when computing was a real frontier (sob)
Well, not mostly free. But if you got a virus, it was because you loaded an infected diskette. There was no internet then. It was really easy to keep viruses off your PC.
"Take only pictures, leave only footprints" - John Muir.

burnitdown
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Post by burnitdown » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:08 pm

Brendan wrote:
burnitdown wrote:
Brendan wrote:Trojans on PCs that weren't connected to anything? Never heard of such a thing.
Before the net there were modems...

And "sneaker net" for transfer of disks...
I mentioned disk "washing", and was modem connected long before the web (remember Veronica and Archie?) but even then that wasn't commonly available, and one could easily select where one dialled so there wasn't really a 'net' let alone the web (1992). Bulletin boards and such may have been a source of trojans, but with care (I guess) I never had a problem until the advent of the web.

But I've never been much of one to play with the things at home too long. Talking to geeks was what I did all day anyway. :wink:
You forgot FIDONET and UUCP-connected boards.

the net was around long before the web...

Brendan

Post by Brendan » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:15 pm

Not that much longer. And the virus explosion didn't really take off until the Web and IE, as I recall. But if you had Trojans way back when, sorry about that. I didn't.

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