In solidarity with Oswego Co., NY

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piston
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In solidarity with Oswego Co., NY

Post by piston » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:28 am

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Post by Ralph » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:28 am

Weird. So much snow in upstate New York and virtually nothing here although that may change tomorrow.
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Post by jbuck919 » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:38 am

Ralph wrote:Weird. So much snow in upstate New York and virtually nothing here although that may change tomorrow.
If by "here" you mean Manhattan rather than Westchester, it's not saying much. New York City has only closed schools because of winter weather once in the last 50 years. That of course does not mean that a late-season heavy snowfall, and they do happen, would not present an inconvenience.

Here, now, it is more remarkable that we have had not even a foot of snow total all winter. Daily dustings have been the norm. However, I rely on the living memory of my mother, who has seen some of the worst storms in the last 20 years, and there has never been ten feet on the ground. Nor is there going to be, because that is a lake effect phenomenon and worst for Lake Ontario because being deeper than the other Great Lakes it stays warmer and exacerbates the effect.

The big worry here is not snow, but ice, and we already had a doozy of an ice storm, though far from the worst known.

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Re: In solidarity with Oswego Co., NY

Post by Haydnseek » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:07 pm

piston wrote:Image
In Denver they call this "Light Accumulation."
"The law isn't justice. It's a very imperfect mechanism. If you press exactly the right buttons and are also lucky, justice may show up in the answer. A mechanism is all the law was ever intended to be." - Raymond Chandler

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Post by Barry » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:11 pm

jbuck919 wrote: New York City has only closed schools because of winter weather once in the last 50 years.
Are you sure of that? It seems hard to believe in light of the fact that schools are closed for bad weather at least once most winters (although the current one has been an exception so far) here in Philadelphia. And we're about 90 miles south of NYC.
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Ted

Post by Ted » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:13 pm

jbuck919 wrote:
New York City has only closed schools because of winter weather once in the last 50 years.

BZ Writes
Are you sure of that? It seems hard to believe in light of the fact that schools are closed for bad weather at least once most winters (although the current one has been an exception so far) here in Philadelphia. And we're about 90 miles south of NYC.
_________________
Bingo John ! (And I say this with no rancor) You’ve done it Again!
As only you can do- You have now made another totally ridiculous and erroneous statement. Ill-informed does not come close to describing the facts you so blazingly ignore



Barry is correct of course, A simple goggle will tell you that:
Not only that but last year NYC broke the record for snow from a single storm—26” in central park


Blizzard of 1996

Dumping more than 20 inches of snow in Central Park, the blizzard of Jan. 7-8, 1996, marked the second biggest snowstorm in New York City history. With winds gusting to more than 50 miles an hour, the powerful nor'easter caused widespread power outages, scores of fatalities and $1 billion in damages from Washington, D.C. to Boston.

Thousands of travelers were stranded at City airports, bus terminals, and highway rest stops as transportation ground to a halt. On Jan. 8, New York City public and parochial schools were ordered closed, several Broadway shows canceled performances, and the New York Stock Exchange had a short day.

Dozens of deaths were attributed to the storm, including a Connecticut man and two New Jersey men who suffered heart attacks while shoveling snow.

As 26,528 tons of salt was spread on City roads, snow was hauled to designated vacant lots and parking areas or dumped into the East and Hudson Rivers. By the end of the 1995-1996 winter season, New York City had experienced 16 snowstorms and recorded more than 89 inches of snow.

Not only that but last year NYC broke the record for snow from a single storm—26” in central park


http://www.nyc.gov/html/oem/html/hazard ... tory.shtml

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Post by Ralph » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:49 pm

Well I certainly remember city schools being closed because of snow occasionally when I was a kid. And that included elementary school where everyone walked.
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Post by Ralph » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:51 pm

One of my clearest memories of going to Far Rockaway H.S. when it was snowing heavily was the inflexible rule that girls had to wear skirts, no pants. I think that changed in my last year but I'm not sure. When I tell that to my poured-into-jeans female law students they look at me as if I had grown up in a foreign country. Or maybe another planet.
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Post by jbuck919 » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:52 pm

[quote="Ted"]Bingo John ! (And I say this with no rancor) You’ve done it Again!
As only you can do- You have now made another totally ridiculous and erroneous statement. Ill-informed does not come close to describing the facts you so blazingly ignore


I am detecting very considerable rancor. From the Wikipedia article on the Blizzard of '96 (and find your own link smarty):

"Schools in New York City's boroughs closed due to snow for the first time since the Blizzard of 1978, 18 years earlier (while most suburban districts in the area close for snow several times each winter, in the city itself they rarely do because of relatively easy access to underground subways whose ability to run is not appreciably affected by snowstorms of moderate accumulation)."

So once in fifty years was pulled out of a hat; the point was that NYC schools don't close very often.

Looks like we're finally going to get it here on Wednesday; nothing that's not ordinary for around here at least once a winter. Problem is they do close the schools around here, and in my sub mode I don't get paid if I don't work.

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Post by Ralph » Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:00 pm

No, NYC schools have closed less often than their suburban counterparts but few years went by when we didn't have at least a one-day closing, often several. This was and is especially true in the boroughs other than Manhattan where snow clearance is more complex, takes longer and often gets screwed up.

Schools have closed in NYC by borough rather than citywide because the situation in Staten Island is often very different than for Manhattan. Same is true about Queens.
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Re: In solidarity with Oswego Co., NY

Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:29 pm

piston wrote:Image
I wonder if I can move there before it melts . . . We are having one of the mildest winters on record.
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Ted

Post by Ted » Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:35 pm

JB Wrote:
I am detecting very considerable rancor.
Don’t confuse acerbic with rancor John . Your “in the last 50 years” is still ludicrous because (A) It isn’t true
B)it implies that there has not been sufficient reason in the way of winter storms to close schools when in fact they have been closed numerous times in the last 20 years
As for this week’s storm, as usual the news outlets have been going berserk—it is very peculiar that I have yet to have my driveway upstate plowed once this year—We should get a good 12 inches on Wednesday—Down here in southern Westchester at the most 4 inches as the snow will turn to rain

Ted

Post by Ted » Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:57 pm

CD Wrote:
We are having one of the mildest winters on record.
And yet, I can site 2 or three recent articles that indicate the Greenland Ice Shelves have “regrouped” as it were—Still, Last Month was the warmest Month on record http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstCate ... cmenuid=44
and in the UK, the Second warmest http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6318231.stm

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Post by Corlyss_D » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:02 pm

Ted wrote:CD Wrote:
We are having one of the mildest winters on record.
And yet, I can site 2 or three recent articles that indicate the Greenland Ice Shelves have “regrouped” as it were—Still, Last Month was the warmest Month on record http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstCate ... cmenuid=44
and in the UK, the Second warmest http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6318231.stm
I want to legislate a ban on El Ninos. I'm entitled to my winters here. I worked hard for them. I paid my admission fee. I want them, here, not in Oswego.
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Ted

Post by Ted » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:08 pm

CD Wrote:
I want to legislate a ban on El Ninos. I'm entitled to my winters here. I worked hard for them. I paid my admission fee. I want them, here, not in Oswego.
I’m with you; in fact due to the causative nature of these snows (Lake Effect) I don’t really count them as anything but local weather anomalies

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Post by piston » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:53 pm

Hey! You're both turning my sincere expression of solidarity into some parochial aberration! They still have got to shovel the stuff, you know? Seriously, some perspective is useful here. It's true that the Lake Ontario "lake effect" is nothing new in the area. What's new, though, and I suspect you all know this already, is the rapid frequency of it all, in the span of one week. It's what everyone there says, so don't blame the messenger.
Truth is, I did not intend this as a "green" political message. Common sense, once again: been there, done that, know how it feels to shovel snow several days in a row as though one is working overtime. And it's a good thing it's not more windy south of the lake, 'cause it just keeps filling up.
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)

Ted

Post by Ted » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:00 am

Hey! You're both turning my sincere expression of solidarity into some parochial aberration! They still have got to shovel the stuff, you know?
Hey at this point I’m not sure who’s shoveling what and to whom

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Post by Ralph » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:09 am

Corlyss_D wrote:
Ted wrote:CD Wrote:
We are having one of the mildest winters on record.
And yet, I can site 2 or three recent articles that indicate the Greenland Ice Shelves have “regrouped” as it were—Still, Last Month was the warmest Month on record http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstCate ... cmenuid=44
and in the UK, the Second warmest http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6318231.stm
I want to legislate a ban on El Ninos. I'm entitled to my winters here. I worked hard for them. I paid my admission fee. I want them, here, not in Oswego.
*****

Sorry, Corlyss, but there'll be El Ninos as long as Utah votes Republican.
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Post by Ralph » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:11 am

They're predicting up to 7" of snow tonight for my area. I don't teach today so I'll just stock up on food and try to figfure out how to shovel the stuff. This storm will be a blip comparted to the usual big ones we have but the media is making a lot of this.
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Ted

Post by Ted » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:41 pm

They're predicting up to 7" of snow tonight for my area.
Don't count on it

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Post by jbuck919 » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:54 pm

I don't know in which direction Ted meant "don't count on it," but it does look up here like two feet anyway. This is not the problem, for the area deals with heavy snowfall pretty well. The problem is the winds that are associated with this storm. These cause power outages around here by downing trees into power lines, and while all truly rural people including me and Mom have a generator, it has to be fueled every three hours, and last year the power was out from a heavy windstorm for four days. Otherwise, the roads get treated very professionally, we have our privately arranged plow-out, and I can still handle the sidewalk (which Ralph can't, which I tried to warn him about when I saw him in January).

The reason I was scheduled to sub in Corinth (where the schools will surely be closed tomorrow) for the Spanish/French teacher for the next three days was because she was scheduled to take a field trip to Costa Rica. So she has a bigger problem than I do, because they are all supposed to fly out of Albany tomorrow morning.

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Post by Ralph » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:39 pm

So far (11:40PM) the snowfall is light. One can never be sure about these weather reports. But my faculty meeting tomorrow morning followed by a committee meeting will certainly be cancelled. And I have a seminar with only 7 students at 8PM and I'll probably cancel that. The roads around here will be quite bad.
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Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:04 am

Ralph wrote:This storm will be a blip comparted to the usual big ones we have but the media is making a lot of this.
The weatherman tonight said the storm was intensifying and working up to a nor'easter. Those are usually pretty impressive precip-wise.
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Post by Ralph » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:30 am

It's a huge mess this morning and very dangerous to venture out. Not much snow has fallen but ice is everywhere as are drivers of SUVs who think they can control their vehicles. Hence, lots of spinouts and fender benders.

My school is closed today so I'll just read and listen to music.
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Ted

Post by Ted » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:54 am

Ralph Wrote:
They're predicting up to 7" of snow tonight for my area
tonight

J
JB Wrote:
I don't know in which direction Ted meant "don't count on it,"


Ralph Wrote:
So far (11:40PM) the snowfall is light.


That is precisely what I meant John, though in Woodstock we should get up to 30"...I'll be there tomorrow

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Post by jbuck919 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:01 am

Ted wrote:That is precisely what I meant John, though in Woodstock we should get up to 30"...I'll be there tomorrow
Hey, don't count on it. The New York Thruway's closed, man. (Not really, but I couldn't resist. :) )

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Ted

Post by Ted » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:07 am

Ted wrote:
That is precisely what I meant John, though in Woodstock we should get up to 30"...I'll be there tomorrow


Hey, don't count on it. The New York Thruway's closed, man. (Not really, but I couldn't resist. Smile )
After looking at the latest data, I take back the 30"--if we get 6 " it will a lot

As usual the NOAA computer solutions were way off

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Post by jbuck919 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:33 am

Ted wrote:
Ted wrote:
That is precisely what I meant John, though in Woodstock we should get up to 30"...I'll be there tomorrow


Hey, don't count on it. The New York Thruway's closed, man. (Not really, but I couldn't resist. Smile )
After looking at the latest data, I take back the 30"--if we get 6 " it will a lot

As usual the NOAA computer solutions were way off
It is not exactly looking like the blizzard of 07 here either, though we have eight inches on the ground. The ideal situation--if I were full time and got paid for today.

In northern Bavaria where I was stationed snow days are very rare. On the one day DoDDS declared one at Bamberg, I had already made it in. Then the announcement came over: "All professional personnel are reminded that they must put in a full work day." Apparently teachers are considered "essential personnel" at the discretion of the base commander and DoDDS does not grant the universal privilege of teachers having a day off on a student snow day.

In Maryland, on the other hand, where we missed approximately half of each winter because of the prevailing wisdom that it should never snow there and there was no responsibility for corrective action if it did, my school had something called a "no snow" day holiday in March, which we took if we had not already used up all our snowdays plus a surplus of something like two weeks extra.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Ted

Post by Ted » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:48 am

John Wrote:
It is not exactly looking like the blizzard of 07 here either
I have to admit John that I hate being down here when I know it's snowing up there---First we had a Winter Storm Warning then that was replaced by a "Heavy Snow Warning" now that has been replaced again by a Winter Storm Warning though Albany just 45 miles North East of Woodstock now has a Blizzard Warning--Get the Picture--Looking at the latest NWS forecasts I might have to up accumulations to 12-16" when all is said and done by 10 PM

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Post by piston » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:55 am

School was almost never affected by winter weather, in my early years as a grade school boy. Living less than a mile away from the school, we were expected to walk there. I have this vivid memory of my mother dressing me up for that walk, during a blizzard, with a scarf wrapped around my face, leaving just enough space for the eyes, and reminding me: "If you can't breathe (because of the blizzard), turn your back on it all and walk backward (toward the school)." But that was a rural area with little traffic. I suspect that, in these more congested urban environments today, issues of liability and insurance rates largely dictate the use of "snow days."
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Post by jbuck919 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:20 am

piston wrote:School was almost never affected by winter weather, in my early years as a grade school boy. Living less than a mile away from the school, we were expected to walk there. I have this vivid memory of my mother dressing me up for that walk, during a blizzard, with a scarf wrapped around my face, leaving just enough space for the eyes, and reminding me: "If you can't breathe (because of the blizzard), turn your back on it all and walk backward (toward the school)." But that was a rural area with little traffic. I suspect that, in these more congested urban environments today, issues of liability and insurance rates largely dictate the use of "snow days."
I also always walked to school (even high school)--already a throwback when I was a kid. But as long as they bussed anybody in, that was the basis of declaring a snow day, of which we had many.

It's funny you would mention children walking to school in extreme weather. I also remember walking backwards in a frigid wind and being made fun of because I wore long underwear, but some of my DoDDS colleagues had been at the (now closed) school in Iceland, and there the winds are so strong that the children are passed from hand to hand as they board the bus so that they will not literally be blown away.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by Ralph » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:31 pm

Since I often lack common sense when that quality is most needed, I de-iced my car and got it out on the road so I could have lunch at the nearest mediocre Chinese restaurant. Few cars out, everything a mess but my car handled it well.
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Post by jbuck919 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:25 pm

Ralph wrote:Since I often lack common sense when that quality is most needed, I de-iced my car and got it out on the road so I could have lunch at the nearest mediocre Chinese restaurant. Few cars out, everything a mess but my car handled it well.
It's not your car we're worried about, Ralph. :(

Two feet here and no sign of letting up.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by Ralph » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:45 pm

jbuck919 wrote:
Ralph wrote:Since I often lack common sense when that quality is most needed, I de-iced my car and got it out on the road so I could have lunch at the nearest mediocre Chinese restaurant. Few cars out, everything a mess but my car handled it well.
It's not your car we're worried about, Ralph. :(

Two feet here and no sign of letting up.
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Post by piston » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:37 pm

Just had my first "liberal" shoveling exercise today. More to come, I bet. :oops:
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)

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Post by Corlyss_D » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:27 am

jbuck919 wrote:Two feet here and no sign of letting up.
Sigh! :(
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Post by jbuck919 » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:48 am

Corlyss_D wrote:
jbuck919 wrote:Two feet here and no sign of letting up.
Sigh! :(
Sorry! Eventually I'll get out and walk the circuit to enjoy the winter wonderland aspect of this, but first they have to dig us out. They closed the roads to private traffic yesterday, including private plowers.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
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Post by piston » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am

Anybody recalls how one could freeze in a VW bug, during the 1960's? Not only was there no efficient heating (or defrosting) system in that car but the engine was placed in the trunk :lol: , thus leaving an empty space up front.

Snow is all crusty, hard as rock, here and I wish I could send you a photo of my vehicle this morning. It'll probably take half an hour to defrost it. :wink:
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)

Ted

Post by Ted » Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:30 pm

Finally snow--9" to a foot

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Post by Ralph » Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:51 pm

There was deceptively little snow when I ventured out this morning, maybe 3". But it was covered with ice. It took me 45 minutes to dig my car out of the ice. Then I get to school and the elevator in my building is out. So it was stairs all day. I am now leaving for a good Chinese dinner.
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Post by Werner » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:05 pm

I trust you gave the city a pass today and yesterday. I understand it's still slushy and messy.
Werner Isler

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Post by jbuck919 » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:10 pm

Ted wrote:Finally snow--9" to a foot
Did I forget to mention that we ended up with 34 inches?

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
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Post by piston » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:22 pm

jbuck919 wrote:
Ted wrote:Finally snow--9" to a foot
Did I forget to mention that we ended up with 34 inches?
And I hear that they got even more in Oswego! (There should be a song written about Oswego, NY :D ).
How did you fare, John. I gave up on the crust! Let the mail man navigate his way to my house :lol:
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Post by Ralph » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:16 pm

Werner wrote:I trust you gave the city a pass today and yesterday. I understand it's still slushy and messy.
*****

That would be irrelevant-I teach Thursdays into the evening so it's too late to do anything.
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Ted

Post by Ted » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:31 pm

John Wrote:
Ted wrote:
Finally snow--9" to a foot



Did I forget to mention that we ended up with 34 inches?

I did see that John!

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