So who fits the airplane terrorist profile?

[paulb]

Ages 17-40
Pakistani , Egyptian, Jordan nationals, Saudi Arabians . Most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis. FLYING FIRST CLASS, one way ticket I believe was the case.

Males

With sur name of Mohhamed(usually)

Well dressed/no jeans..

A bit nervous in lines, shifty eyes.

Anything else?
Never fat, nor bald. Beards? not sure.

Anything else?

[RebLem]

Jeb Bush's son Prescott looks suspicious, too.

[paulb]

Jeb Bush's son Prescott looks suspicious, too.

Just my point.
Why, over the past 5 yrs, has the US government made the checkpoint practice of "every and anyone is a possible terrorist, ck every man as if he is a terrorist". So that even the Ozzie and Harriet style family, the "laeve it to Beaver" type families are scrutnized JUST AS MUCH as a tvaveling young Egyptian national?
Weird. This is no way to win a war. All of those airport personal could be better employed with the task of observing temp students that come from Jordan, Egypt, Pakistan etc.
Sort ofa tracking forse.
Its too late once they are at the airport.
Its a case of mis directed attention.

[RebLem]

I don't travel a lot, but in my admittedly limited experience, the people who seem to me to be inappropriately singled out are mostly young, attractive women.

[Corlyss_D]

I don't travel a lot, but in my admittedly limited experience, the people who seem to me to be inappropriately singled out are mostly young, attractive women.

The last time I traveled, I was a no longer skinny 58 yr old and I got tagged. When I brought my 86 yr old wheelchair bound mother out here in 2002, she was subjected to wanding. This policy that everyone has to be treated the same or the civil rights industry will drag the government into court until it submits is just nuts.

[Lilith]

"This policy that everyone has to be treated the same or the civil rights industry will drag the government into court until it submits is just nuts"

Couldn't agree more- it defies logic.

[paulb]

"This policy that everyone has to be treated the same or the civil rights industry will drag the government into court until it submits is just nuts"

Couldn't agree more- it defies logic.

Glen Beck had a guest on his show that pointed out the man responsible for such stupidity of cking anyone/everyone as a possible terrorist and that he was a carry over from Bush's previous adminstration. The guest said it was the one man he had hoped would not see a position in the new Bush admin. Yet in fact was appointed to the important position of head of security operations.
this is the guy responsible for such nonsense of "everyone is a possible terrorist suspect". Little old ladies and all.

[paulb]

So lets imagine for a moment, the frightening thought that these Islamofascist had success with blowing up 10 planes over the Atlantic.
How would we feel that the 19 islamics were British citizens.
Would we expect the british to start an aggressive investigation with dozens of arrests? i mean really get down to business. Go into the very mosques, arrest anyone with even a slight connections to radical ideas?
yes i would expect nothing less, a real roundup.
This would get the terrorists supporters out in the streets in protest. Then grab them also.

norice Bush said he was proud of Tony Blair's government. Bush did not say the brit government as many brits are anti america, due to the Iraq invasion.
London will soon be faced with the task of arresting all the islamofascists that walk their streets.
That day is upon them now, not tomorrow.
The rest of europe needs to follow as well.
Roundup time.

The parents and friends of the terrorists said they were innocent of all charges. That they were in fact going to the mosque at the time and one siad he would 'swear on the Koran his friend was not guility"

[Corlyss_D]

norice Bush said he was proud of Tony Blair's government.

Reports now are focusing on Pakistan. We know that our "partner" in the war on terror is a semi-civilized rogue state with the ISI running terror operations around the world and protecting Bin Laden. Apparently this was a deliberate strike against the British as well as the US.

[Agnes Selby]

[quote="paulb"]So lets imagine for a moment, the frightening thought that these Islamofascist had success with blowing up 10 planes over the Atlantic.
How would we feel that the 19 islamics were British citizens.
--------------

They are all British citizens. In fact one is a convert to Islam.
He converted only 6 months ago. They are middle class men with
jobs. One was arrested with his pregnant wife. All of it makes no
sense at all, only a desire to murder innocent people.

Agnes.
------------------

[paulb]

So lets imagine for a moment, the frightening thought that these Islamofascist had success with blowing up 10 planes over the Atlantic.
How would we feel that the 19 islamics were British citizens.
--------------

They are all British citizens. In fact one is a convert to Islam.
He converted only 6 months ago. They are middle class men with
jobs. One was arrested with his pregnant wife. All of it makes no
sense at all, only a desire to murder innocent people.

Agnes.
------------------

Yes thanks for filling in more details.
The 19 did not come from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt. But right out of England.
Which means england needs to begin a sweep of any and all suspected islamic radicals. Yes?
WEll of course.
But they are not guilty of any crimes, you say. They are only voicing their political and religious beliefs. But these beliefs are acts of war. They need to be taken down even at the risk of making them martyrs and so rallying up new converts.

[mourningstar]

I was reading this article, and they were talking about the youth of england. read this dialogue


Kirstie (16) : ,, i hate those pakistans. I hate the fact that they are terrorist living here. They give Walthamstow a bad name !!" Brian: (15) ,,They caught Ibrahim. " Kirstie: ,, What! That's impossible, he was such a cutie!!"

[Ralph]

I don't travel a lot, but in my admittedly limited experience, the people who seem to me to be inappropriately singled out are mostly young, attractive women.

The last time I traveled, I was a no longer skinny 58 yr old and I got tagged. When I brought my 86 yr old wheelchair bound mother out here in 2002, she was subjected to wanding. This policy that everyone has to be treated the same or the civil rights industry will drag the government into court until it submits is just nuts.

*****

And what would be the political fallout if a policy to exempt fat, septuagenarians from security searches resulted in an aged nut shooting up the place? It's not the "civil rights industry," it's plain bipartisan CYA, something Corlyss should know a lot about from her career.

[Agnes Selby]

So lets imagine for a moment, the frightening thought that these Islamofascist had success with blowing up 10 planes over the Atlantic.
How would we feel that the 19 islamics were British citizens.
--------------

They are all British citizens. In fact one is a convert to Islam.
He converted only 6 months ago. They are middle class men with
jobs. One was arrested with his pregnant wife. All of it makes no
sense at all, only a desire to murder innocent people.

Agnes.
------------------

But they are not guilty of any crimes, you say. They are only voicing their political and religious beliefs. But these beliefs are acts of war. They need to be taken down even at the risk of making them martyrs and so rallying up new converts.

-------------

In fact, I said no such thing. I only mentioned their citizenships.

---------------------------------------

[paulb]

So lets imagine for a moment, the frightening thought that these Islamofascist had success with blowing up 10 planes over the Atlantic.
How would we feel that the 19 islamics were British citizens.
--------------

They are all British citizens. In fact one is a convert to Islam.
He converted only 6 months ago. They are middle class men with
jobs. One was arrested with his pregnant wife. All of it makes no
sense at all, only a desire to murder innocent people.

Agnes.
------------------

But they are not guilty of any crimes, you say. They are only voicing their political and religious beliefs. But these beliefs are acts of war. They need to be taken down even at the risk of making them martyrs and so rallying up new converts.

-------------

In fact, I said no such thing. I only mentioned their citizenships.

---------------------------------------

Please excuse my sloppy writing.
I mean "you" as tjhose brits /europeans who object to aressting the militant muslims that speak out in certain mosques.
Pretending they are exempt from scrunity, though they in fact are the source of terroritst energies.

[Agnes Selby]

Yes I agree. Only this morning we learned that the Chief
Mullah of Britain sent a letter to the Prime Minister
placing the blame on his government's intervention in Iraq.
This intervention is now the reason why 10 transatlantic planes
were to be blown up.

Its seems that murderers always have a good reason for
their actions. There must be excellent reasons why the Shia and
and the Suni are killing each other wholesale but this was obviously
not mentioned in the letter to the Prime Minister.

Soon the entire blame will be placed on Mr. Bush's shoulders.
It should happen within the next minute or two.

Agnes.
--------------

[paulb]

That response from The Chief Mullah of Britian of condemning the brit government as being the reason behind the actions of these 18 islamic radicals, shows just how quickly the islamic religion is in a state of meltdown.

20 yrs ago when i use to dabble in religious books i picked up a copy of the Koran and looked it over.
My reaction was at doubt first, that maybe the translation had missed something. Nothing from a religious point of view could promote this much violence.
So i had my doubts as to its inherent speech of violence. , as isalm at that time was relatively quite, a few hijackings, attacks on the israeli athletes at the Olympic Games and such, nothing that showed its full glaring bloody teeth.

So the other day i picked the Koran up just to ck it out once again.
Now I clearly see its face of evil. Mohmmed was a very ill man, if indeed he is the author.

[jack stowaway]

Lord Stevens retired recently from his position as head of the UK Metropolitan Police. He contributes a column to the News of the World newspaper for which he wrote the following on 13 August 2006. In the article he discusses passenger profiling, discussed in this thread.

IF YOU'RE A MUSLIM - IT'S YOUR PROBLEM

WHEN will the Muslims of Britain stand up to be counted?

When will they declare, loud and clear, with no qualifications or quibbles about Britain's foreign policy, that Islamic terrorism is WRONG?

Most of all, when will the Muslim community in this country accept an absolute, undeniable, total truth: that Islamic terrorism is THEIR problem? THEY own it. And it is THEIR duty to face it and eradicate it.

To stop the denial, endless fudging and constant wailing that somehow it is everyone else's problem and, if Islamic terrorism exists at all, they are somehow the main victims.

Because until that happens the problem will never be resolved. And there will be more 7/7s and, sometime in the future, another airplane plot will succeed with horrific loss of innocent life.

Equally important, those British politicians who have seemed obsessed with pandering to, and even encouraging, this state of denial, must throw off their politically-correct blinkers and recognise the same truth—that Muslim terrorism in Britain is the direct responsibility of British Muslims.

If only they would follow the lead of Home Secretary John Reid, whose tough, pragmatic, clear-sighted approach has been a breath of fresh air. Only then can they properly work out how to tackle it.

For instance, every airport in Britain is in chaos over the plane bomb-plot alert as every passenger is subjected to rigorous security checks. Why? They take lots of time, lots of staff, and are extremely expensive.

I'm a white 62-year-old 6ft 4ins suit-wearing ex-cop—I fly often, but do I really fit the profile of suicide bomber? Does the young mum with three tots? The gay couple, the rugby team, the middle-aged businessman?

No. But they are all getting exactly the same amount and devouring huge resources for no logical reason whatsoever. Yet the truth is Islamic terrorism in the West has been universally carried out by young Muslim men, usually of ethnic appearance, almost always travelling alone or in very small groups. A tiny percentage, I bet, of those delayed today have such characteristics.

This targeting of airport resources is called passenger profiling—the Israelis invented it and they've got probably the safest airports and airlines in the world.

In all my years at the front line of fighting terrorism, one truth was always clear — communities beat terrorists, not governments or security forces. But communities can't beat terrorism unless they have the will to do so. My heart sank this week as I saw and read the knee-jerk reaction of friends and neighbours of those arrested in this latest incident, insisting it was all a mistake and the anti-terrorist squad had the wrong people.

I have no idea whether those arrested are guilty or not. But neither have those friends and neighbours. They spoke as if it was inconceivable such a thing could happen in their community; that those arrested were all good Muslims; that Islam is a religion of peace so no Muslim could dream of planning such an act.

But we heard the same from the family and friends of the 7/7 bombers, didn't we?

And the two young British Muslims who died as suicide bombers in Israel. Then there are the British Muslims known to have become suicide bombers in Iraq.

There is currently a huge, long-running and complex alleged Islamist bomb plot being tried at the Old Bailey. And a fistful of other cases of alleged Muslim terrorism plots such as the 21/7 London Underground case are also awaiting trial.

All this would suggest the blindingly obvious—that terrorism is a major problem for the Muslim community of Britain. Of course, there will be instant squealings that this is racism. It's not. It's exactly the same as recognising that, during the Northern Ireland troubles that left thousands dead, the IRA were totally based in the Catholic community and the UVF in the Protestant.

And that, most importantly, IRA terrorism only began to draw to a close when that Catholic community it was based in decided as a whole that it was no longer prepared to back violence as the only way forward. Interestingly, it was Catholic revulsion over republican terrorist atrocities such as Enniskillen and Omagh that fuelled that change.

Well, Muslim terrorism in Britain is based in, has its roots in, and grows in, our Muslim community. The madmen of 7/7 and other suicide bombings didn't hide among the Hindu communities, worship in the Sikh temples, recruit at Catholic churches, did they? It may be true that events in Iraq have angered sections of the Muslim community. I have no doubts, whatever Tony Blair says, that it was a catalyst. I also think it's entirely fair for Muslims, if they wish, to vocally oppose Britain's continuing involvement there.

I can recognise, too, that recent events in Lebanon inflame some people, and they want their voices of protest heard. The absolutely unacceptable problem is that this opposition is used by too many to turn a blind eye to, or excuse, terrorists in their midst.

Blasting a passenger airliner out of the sky, killing hundreds of innocent men, women and children, is NEVER acceptable. Under any circumstances. There is NEVER an excuse.

A terrible tragedy costing Muslim lives in Lebanon or Iraq or Afghanistan is never ever an excuse for terrorism here.

It is totally unacceptable, totally wrong. What one party perceives as a wrong, no matter how strongly they feel, does not, in turn, justify another wrong being done to avenge it.

And until every single member of the Muslim community believes that and preaches that—from an ordinary parent to imam or madrassa teacher—terrorism can't be beaten.

Politicians must accept this truth, and do something about it. One example would be to tackle this chaos at our airports and the passenger profiling I described earlier. Another must is to reconsider ID cards. The importance of knowing whether someone really is who they say they are has never been higher.

This must be combined with improved border controls, logging exactly who goes OUT of the country as well as who comes in should also be reconsidered, whatever the politically correct among us may say. The time terrorism suspects are kept in custody before charge has also caused dissent. Currently the maximum is 28 days—it may well be this should be reconsidered and, if necessary, raised again to, say, 42 days.

Plainly, Muslim terrorism isn't going away. We need to consider everything in our battle to defeat it. But that's the responsibility of all.

Not least the community where, sadly for them, it is festering.

[paulb]

Jack, thank you so much for that incredibly insightful article written by Lord Stevens.
There's so much truth there, I'm not sure where to begin adding my comments, if necessary at all.
Stevens covers the issues so throughly and clearly there's not much one can add.

One day I was reseaching in Tulane's library , Junging, gnostic stuff, back in 1994, and came across a book which in the epilogue covered the idea that the west, specific the US, had become the shadow element to the islamic radicals. Everything dark and eveil within the islamic militants ideology had been cast upon the west. The US now had become to the islamofascists, The Great Infidels. I was out of time to read the epilogue throughly and after many searches could not locate the book.
When the news of the plane hijackings and strikes occured, that book's ideas came first in my mind.
This author had seen something, had glimpsed something forming in the muslim mind.

If Mohammed could speak today a message to his followers, what would his words be?

First sentence would go something like this.
" My children, NO STOP. I beg of you, for the sake of Allah and the children you love, STOP the violence and hate. You are killing me and causing great pain and suffering to Allah. You are the Infidels, those of you who hate and also you who do not correct the misguided muslims. You mullahs and Ayatollas who are not preaching out against these crimes against one another in Iraq, against the US, the west and also not condeming the hate directed towards God's beloved people in Israel. You have become THE Infidels. You have become my enemy."


The muslim that does not correct his brother when he knows that one is in a troubled mind, he is just as guilty of the crime carried out by the lost soul.

Its time the muslims around the would begin to speak to their lost brothers. Its time to lay the Koran aside and begin stern confrontations with the islomofascists. There can be no other way.