Beethoven: Symphonies / Blomstedt, Staatskapelle Dresden

Seán · Post by **Seán** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:30 pm

I'm wondering if members are familiar with the Beethoven: Complete Symphonies / Blomstedt, Staatskapelle Dresden recordings and if so would you recommend that I get them? They are available at a very reasonable price in Tower Records in Dublin.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:38 pm

I haven't heard them, but I can tell you that I've seen them recommended many times on various message boards over the years. Whenever the subject of a good budget Beethoven set comes up, this is one of the sets that always gets mentioned.

gfweis · Post by **gfweis** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:40 pm

I don't know if I can be of much help here, but I did own this set 10-15 (probably closer to 15) years ago. I make notes now when I discard cds or lps, but then I didn't, and therefore don't recall the details of why I didn't keep them. I do remember that I didn't keep them for long...just a few days, perhaps, so I must not have formed a very positive impression. May I sneak in a recommendation for Jochum's mono set in a DG box, just in case you don't have them? Superb! And in great sound! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00007 ... -2&seller=

Sylph · Post by **Sylph** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:49 pm

While we're at Beethoven... Could someone recommend a great, powerful, majestic, superb, unleash-the-fury version of the Fifth?

Seán · Post by **Seán** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:50 pm

gfweis wrote:I don't know if I can be of much help here, but I did own this set 10-15 (probably closer to 15) years ago. I make notes now when I discard cds or lps, but then I didn't, and therefore don't recall the details of why I didn't keep them. I do remember that I didn't keep them for long...just a few days, perhaps, so I must not have formed a very positive impression. May I sneak in a recommendation for Jochum's mono set in a DG box, just in case you don't have them? Superb! And in great sound! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00007 ... -2&seller=

Interesting, I never "get rid" of CDs or LPs for that matter either, I'm not a hoarder merely a collector.

Thanks for the Jochum nomination. By the way I do not have many Beethoven recordings. I have the Karajan 1962 set, I love it. I have a few CDs of Mackerras with the Royal Liverpool and like them too. The Blomstedt set has been in Tower for some time now. I saw it there again today and that got me thinking that perhaps I might get it.

Sylph · Post by **Sylph** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:05 pm

Seán, why do you want to buy a set?

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:36 pm

Sylph wrote:While we're at Beethoven... Could someone recommend a great, powerful, majestic, superb, unleash-the-fury version of the Fifth?

You mean other than Carlos Kleiber...

OK, his father, Erich Klieber (1953) on Decca and Otto Klemperer (1955) on EMI...

premont · Post by **premont** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:52 pm

Seán wrote:I'm wondering if members are familiar with the Beethoven: Complete Symphonies / Blomstedt, Staatskapelle Dresden recordings and if so would you recommend that I get them? They are available at a very reasonable price in Tower Records in Dublin.

Got the Blomsted set a few months ago. Have listened to Symph. 1-8 but not the Choral (yet).

This is an intellectual interpretation, a bit cold.
I acnowledge its formal correctness, but I do not warm to it.
The contribution of the Dresdener Statskapelle is faultless.

If you want a complete set, you may acquire the complete MacKerras / Liverpool set on EMI Classics For Pleasure. The cost is a steal, and if you like some of it, you will surely like all of it. Do not confuse it with MacKerras´ second set (released by Hyperion) - an uneven live recording from the Edinburgh festival a few years ago.

premont · Post by **premont** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:01 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
Sylph wrote:While we're at Beethoven... Could someone recommend a great, powerful, majestic, superb, unleash-the-fury version of the Fifth?
You mean other than Carlos Kleiber...

OK, his father, Erich Klieber (1953) on Decca and Otto Klemperer (1955) on EMI...

Klemperer seconded. Not the stereo version in the EMI box release, but the earlier monoversion released in EMIs Great recordings of the century coupled with Synph. 7.

Link:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphonies-Nos- ... 103&sr=1-4

DavidRoss · Post by **DavidRoss** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:38 pm

The Blomstedt/Dresden set is one of the better big band Beethoven cycles I know--impeccable playing, full-bodied sound, yet not mushified through the Romantic wringer but more classical in spirit, if I recall. I seldom listen to it since I prefer the leaner, meaner HIP or HIP-influenced sets. When I got mine from Brilliant Records the cost was ~$20. At that price it's a no brainer.

Sylph · Post by **Sylph** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:41 pm

DavidRoss wrote:I seldom listen to it since I prefer the leaner, meaner HIP or HIP-influenced sets.

Which mean & lean ones do you own?

Sylph · Post by **Sylph** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:41 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
Sylph wrote:While we're at Beethoven... Could someone recommend a great, powerful, majestic, superb, unleash-the-fury version of the Fifth?
You mean other than Carlos Kleiber...

No one like Kleiber.

CharmNewton · Post by **CharmNewton** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:42 pm

Sylph wrote:While we're at Beethoven... Could someone recommend a great, powerful, majestic, superb, unleash-the-fury version of the Fifth?

Chicago Symphony/Reiner--who else?

You want the Living Stereo issue.

The analog Chicago Symphony/Solti is also outstanding. I haven't heard the digital re-make.

The VPO/C. Kleiber on DG has a reputation going back to its LP days, but the mastering on the DG Originals issue (has there been another) leaves something to be desired.

Boulez recorded the Fifth with the New Philharmonia Orchestra about 35 years ago which has not been issued on CD to my knowledge. A controversial interpretation in its day due to the inclusion of a repeat in the third movement. Boulez was convinced by one of his students that Beethoven inadvertently omitted it. Not a rip-roaring performance, but an interesting one, which I suspect will never again see the light of day.

John

Sylph · Post by **Sylph** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:43 pm

CharmNewton wrote:
Sylph wrote:While we're at Beethoven... Could someone recommend a great, powerful, majestic, superb, unleash-the-fury version of the Fifth?
Chicago Symphony/Reiner--who else?

Let me correct myself. No one like Kleiber except, of course, Reiner & CSO.

CharmNewton · Post by **CharmNewton** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:09 pm

Sylph wrote:
CharmNewton wrote:
Sylph wrote:While we're at Beethoven... Could someone recommend a great, powerful, majestic, superb, unleash-the-fury version of the Fifth?
Chicago Symphony/Reiner--who else?
Let me correct myself. No one like Kleiber except, of course, Reiner & CSO.

I would take Reiner over either Kleiber in a heartbeat. We can't forget Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra (or the Concertgebouw Orchestra--wasn't called Royal back then) either.

John

gfweis · Post by **gfweis** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:07 pm

Sylph: best 5th = Szell/ACO

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:44 pm

Sylph wrote:
CharmNewton wrote:
Sylph wrote:While we're at Beethoven... Could someone recommend a great, powerful, majestic, superb, unleash-the-fury version of the Fifth?
Chicago Symphony/Reiner--who else?
Let me correct myself. No one like Kleiber except, of course, Reiner & CSO.

It's been a while since I played the Reiner, I have in on a JVC XRCD...the sleeve has him wearing a plain wool sweater...i'll give it a spin tonight...

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:36 pm

Later that Night...

OK Reiner's pretty damn good, but a little too powerful at times, not to be played too often I think, then I played his Pathetique, does not displace Mravinsky, but still a great record...

CharmNewton · Post by **CharmNewton** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:47 pm

Chalkperson wrote:Later that Night...

OK Reiner's pretty damn good, but a little too powerful at times, not to be played too often I think...

The producers have done a pretty good job cleaning up some of the distortion that plagued LP issues, much like Giulini's EMI recording of the Verdi Requiem. A Fifth for the ages.

John

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:06 pm

CharmNewton wrote:
Chalkperson wrote:Later that Night...

OK Reiner's pretty damn good, but a little too powerful at times, not to be played too often I think...
The producers have done a pretty good job cleaning up some of the distortion that plagued LP issues, much like Giulini's EMI recording of the Verdi Requiem. A Fifth for the ages.

A bit of crumpled tape noise came up in the fourth movement, but not too much distortion...

As for Guilini, definately a Requiem for the Ages, there is a DVD of it too...

I was listening to Abbado's the other day, that's also excellent, but then so is Reiner...

premont wrote:If you want a complete set, you may acquire the complete MacKerras / Liverpool set on EMI Classics For Pleasure. The cost is a steal, and if you like some of it, you will surely like all of it. Do not confuse it with MacKerras´ second set (released by Hyperion) - an uneven live recording from the Edinburgh festival a few years ago.

I agree about Liverpool being a great bargain, but I think Edinburgh is really good too...I just got his Dvorak Symphonies on Classics for Pleasure...yet more great performances, the man never makes a bad record...buy the CfP Sean...

Holden Fourth · Post by **Holden Fourth** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:49 am

Sylph wrote:While we're at Beethoven... Could someone recommend a great, powerful, majestic, superb, unleash-the-fury version of the Fifth?

Kleiber doesn't cut it IMO

Try

HvK 1963 or 1977 - he has this nailed.

This youtube performance gives a great indication

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhcR1ZS2hVo

The finale blew my socks off (as did the CDs)

My other choice is Leibowitz/RPO

Sylph · Post by **Sylph** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:57 am

Holden Fourth wrote: Kleiber doesn't cut it IMO

Try

HvK 1963 or 1977 - he has this nailed.

This youtube performance gives a great indication

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhcR1ZS2hVo

The finale blew my socks off (as did the CDs)

My other choice is Leibowitz/RPO

Did I just see 8 horns in that performance? 4 bassoons?

Seán · Post by **Seán** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:18 am

Sylph wrote:Seán, why do you want to buy a set?

Hi Sylph, I have mixed views when it to comes to buying a complete symphonic set. On balance I do prefer to buy individual recordings, however, I think that buying a set of recordings of the music of say Alfvén, Balakirev, Glazunov, etc is a very good and inexpensive way to get acquainted with that composer's symphony cycle. The reason why I am tempted to get the Blomstedt set is because it is for sale for less than €20; if there are three or four good interpretations in the set then I'll feel that it's well worth the money. Incidentally, the only Blomstedt recordings in my collection are of Nielsen's music, so I'd like to get more of his work too. That's why I come along here and pester people looking for assistance.

The Reiner/CSO recordings are wonderful, they are well worth having.

Seán · Post by **Seán** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:25 am

This thread appears to have steered off topic a wee bit. David is right I am looking for the "Big Band"

approach to Beethoven. People seem to be, in the main, indifferent to the Blomstedt renditions, am I right?

hangos · Post by **hangos** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:41 am

Sylph wrote:While we're at Beethoven... Could someone recommend a great, powerful, majestic, superb, unleash-the-fury version of the Fifth?

Apart from Szell/Concertgebouw and Herbie's 1962 take, you could try Peter Eotvos' hyper-exciting reading with the Ensemble Modern on BMC (Budapest Music Centre) CD 063 ; he plays it fast and straight,yet relaxes nicely in the slow movement - curiously, the strings were amplified during the performance, as it's a fairly small orchestra. I hear this as a modern composer's homage to Beethoven (minus pipe and slippers!) Hard to get hold of, but perhaps you might be able to listen to samples

DavidRoss · Post by **DavidRoss** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:48 am

Seán wrote:This thread appears to have steered off topic a wee bit. David is right I am looking for the "Big Band" approach to Beethoven. People seem to be, in the main, indifferent to the Blomstedt renditions, am I right?

Based on an admittedly cursory scanning of this thread, it seems that few who've responded are familiar with the Blomstedt/Dresden cycle, but that doesn't stop most from suggesting their favorites.

For appraisals from critics who at least have heard the set, you might investigate reviews on the web, such as the MusicWeb review here, the Classics Today review here, or the unprofessional reviews at Amazon here and comments at GMG here. I will say that if Herbie the K's approach really floats your boat, you might not appreciate Blomstedt's as much. He's closer to Szell, IMO.

And if you really like the Blomstedt/SFS Nielsen (I do!), then you might also treasure their terrific Sibelius cycle, their Brahms German Requiem, their Mendelssohn symphonies, and their Peer Gynt--all of which are among my faves.

premont · Post by **premont** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:49 am

Chalkperson wrote:[I agree about Liverpool being a great bargain, but I think Edinburgh is really good too...I just got his Dvorak Symphonies on Classics for Pleasure...yet more great performances, the man never makes a bad record...buy the CfP Sean...

I did not write, that I think the Hyperion set is bad, but I find it uneven. It contains one of the most exciting recordings of no.3 and no.7, and and one of the most routinier performances of no. 9, I can recall at the moment. The Hyperion set is IMO well worth owning, but compared to the consistently good CfP set, it is too expensive and, - yes uneven.

premont · Post by **premont** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:54 am

DavidRoss wrote: And if you really like the Blomstedt/SFS Nielsen (I do)

IMO Blomstedt´s SFS Nielsen set is admirable and efficient, but also a bit cold.
I much prefer his earlier EMI set -it is warmer, more Danish, if I may say so.

DavidRoss · Post by **DavidRoss** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:36 pm

premont wrote:
DavidRoss wrote: And if you really like the Blomstedt/SFS Nielsen (I do)
IMO Blomstedt´s SFS Nielsen set is admirable and efficient, but also a bit cold.
I much prefer his earlier EMI set -it is warmer, more Danish, if I may say so.

You may be the first person I've met to accuse the Danes of warmth--not that I disagree, just that Scandinavian warmth in general and Danish in particular is expressed so subtly that those equating demonstrativeness with warmth tend unfairly to stereotype Scandinavians as cold.

CharmNewton · Post by **CharmNewton** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:50 pm

Seán wrote:This thread appears to have steered off topic a wee bit. David is right I am looking for the "Big Band" approach to Beethoven. People seem to be, in the main, indifferent to the Blomstedt renditions, am I right?

I've only heard the Ninth, which I enjoyed. Blomstedt is a conductor who wears very well over the long haul. I'd buy this set if it were inexpensive (it's really hard to justify paying top dollar--or Euro--when I already have about 20 cycles). I believe this set is included in the Brilliant Classics Beethoven Edition. There is an special pressing of this set which includes 15 CDs of historical performances in addition to the 85 CDs included in the set, all for about 56 Euros + shipping from Amazon.fr.

John

premont · Post by **premont** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:03 pm

CharmNewton wrote:[
I believe this set is included in the Brilliant Classics Beethoven Edition. There is an special pressing of this set which includes 15 CDs of historical performances in addition to the 85 CDs included in the set, all for about 56 Euros + shipping from Amazon.fr.
John

No, the Symphony set in the Brilliant complete LvB 100 CD box is the recording by Leipzig Gewandhausorch. / Masur.

The Blomstedt Symphony set is part of the Brilliant 40 CDs LvB masterworks box.

premont · Post by **premont** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:05 pm

DavidRoss wrote: You may be the first person I've met to accuse the Danes of warmth--not that I disagree, just that Scandinavian warmth in general and Danish in particular is expressed so subtly that those equating demonstrativeness with warmth tend unfairly to stereotype Scandinavians as cold.

Well put, I agree completely.

Post by **Lance** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:30 pm

I am unfamiliar with the Blomstedt/Staatskapelle-Dresden set you mention. I no longer collect "complete" sets since I have so many. My "reference recording" of a complete set is by von Karajan on DGG in the 1962 set you refer to. While I am not a total von Karajan fan, I think that is among the finest traversals of complete sets on the market - and you have it! If you are looking for another complete set, I would recommend the one conducted by André Cluytens and the Berlin Philharmonic. Here, you have a Belgian/French-trained conductor who was also steeped in the musical traditions of Austria and Germany. His complete set of Beethoven symphonies was recorded (in stereo) between 1957 and 1960 and released on EMI. It holds up very well, indeed. Cluytens isn't given a lot of hype these days, but I thought his performances to be quite revealing with the Berlin Philharmonic (a good comparison with von Karajan and the Berlin!). Outstanding sound. The set has been reissued on the DISKY label [703732] and is available for a song! I was lucky to find all of Cluytens' Beethoven symphonies issued in the USA on the budget-priced Seraphim label, which is now out of print. Honestly, there are so many complete sets that it's very difficult to focus one specific issues. Everyone has their own individual tastes. Naturally, you will probably want to supplement complete sets with individual recordings of each symphony. It can get out of hand very quickly - and expensively!

Seán wrote:I'm wondering if members are familiar with the Beethoven: Complete Symphonies / Blomstedt, Staatskapelle Dresden recordings and if so would you recommend that I get them? They are available at a very reasonable price in Tower Records in Dublin.

GK · Post by GK » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:45 pm

I have a very good recording of Beethoven's 1st and 3rd symphonies. It's by the San Francisco Symphony, not the Dresden.

For a fiery 5th you may want the highly acclaimed Dudamel recording. You can sample it on Arkiv. I heard the companion 7th on radio and it is indeed fiery.

Seán · Post by **Seán** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:06 pm

DavidRoss wrote:
Seán wrote:This thread appears to have steered off topic a wee bit. David is right I am looking for the "Big Band" approach to Beethoven. People seem to be, in the main, indifferent to the Blomstedt renditions, am I right?
Based on an admittedly cursory scanning of this thread, it seems that few who've responded are familiar with the Blomstedt/Dresden cycle, but that doesn't stop most from suggesting their favorites.

For appraisals from critics who at least have heard the set, you might investigate reviews on the web, such as the MusicWeb review here, the Classics Today review here, or the unprofessional reviews at Amazon here and comments at GMG here. I will say that if Herbie the K's approach really floats your boat, you might not appreciate Blomstedt's as much. He's closer to Szell, IMO.

As one of the GMG members said, "given the price, it's a no-brainer", so good, I'll get it. Thanks David.

DavidRoss wrote: And if you really like the Blomstedt/SFS Nielsen (I do!), then you might also treasure their terrific Sibelius cycle, their Brahms German Requiem, their Mendelssohn symphonies, and their Peer Gynt--all of which are among my faves.

I love the Blomstedt/SFSO recordings, I prefer them to the earlier Blomstedt/DRSO versions. The Blomstedt Sibelius is on my shopping list. I didn't realise that they had recorded Mendelssohn symphonies and Peer Gynt too.

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:35 pm

premont wrote:No, the Symphony set in the Brilliant complete LvB 100 CD box is the recording by Leipzig Gewandhausorch. / Masur.

THAT SET...

They released it as SACD'S in the early days...how ever did he get the NYPO Job...

slofstra · Post by **slofstra** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:27 pm

The Klemperer/EMI box set is available very inexpensively. And also includes the piano concertos with Barenboim which are superb. I don't particularly know how it compares with earlier mono recordings or if it is the earlier mono recording, but nothing sounds like the Philharmonia Orchestra under Klemperer. They cook. The only caveat is that the 9th is the worst of the seven renditions I have.

As far as a passionate 5th, try the recent Rattle/BPO. If nothing else it is wild. The piccolo goes absolutely nuts in the final movement.

karlhenning · Post by **karlhenning** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:18 pm

Piccolos going absolutely nuts . . . wonder why we allow it ; )

Cheers,
~Karl

karlhenning · Post by **karlhenning** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:24 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
premont wrote:No, the Symphony set in the Brilliant complete LvB 100 CD box is the recording by Leipzig Gewandhausorch. / Masur.
THAT SET...

They released it as SACD'S in the early days...how ever did he get the NYPO Job...

Talent, I expect.

I have the later Gewandhausorchester/Masur set, and I like it very well. In principle, enjoying Blomstedt's work to the extent that I do, I'd be most interested in listening to a Beethoven Symphony set of his; I expect it to be well worth the listening to. I like this box of Masur very nicely, and more than one Beethoven symphony set is a low, low priority for me.

Cheers,
~Karl

slofstra · Post by **slofstra** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:25 pm

karlhenning wrote:Piccolos going absolutely nuts . . . wonder why we allow it ; )

Cheers,
~Karl

Their diminutive size may have something to do with it. Picking on a piccolo is not perfectly proper.

Seán · Post by **Seán** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:35 pm

slofstra wrote:The Klemperer/EMI box set is available very inexpensively. And also includes the piano concertos with Barenboim which are superb.

I haven't come across that one for quite some time. When I do see it again I will buy it.

slofstra wrote:
As far as a passionate 5th, try the recent Rattle/BPO. If nothing else it is wild. The piccolo goes absolutely nuts in the final movement.

I might give that one a miss Henry.

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:45 pm

karlhenning wrote:Talent, I expect.

I have the later Gewandhausorchester/Masur set, and I like it very well. In principle, enjoying Blomstedt's work to the extent that I do, I'd be most interested in listening to a Beethoven Symphony set of his; I expect it to be well worth the listening to. I like this box of Masur very nicely, and more than one Beethoven symphony set is a low, low priority for me.

Cheers,
~Karl

I have to say that no matter how hard I try I find his recordings to be, well, just like those by Maxim Shostakovich...the only Masur recording that I do like is ironically enough Shosty's 7th Live in Paris on Naive...otherwise I just find him dull, I picked up a five disc Liszt Budget Set on Decca last week (Recommended by Stenka, 5CD's for 12 bucks at J+R) and it has his Hungarian Rhapsodies on it, I made myself listen to it all the way through, well, until I fell asleep that is...

slofstra · Post by **slofstra** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:48 pm

Seán wrote:
slofstra wrote:The Klemperer/EMI box set is available very inexpensively. And also includes the piano concertos with Barenboim which are superb.
I haven't come across that one for quite some time. When I do see it again I will buy it.
slofstra wrote:
As far as a passionate 5th, try the recent Rattle/BPO. If nothing else it is wild. The piccolo goes absolutely nuts in the final movement.
I might give that one a miss Henry.

22 pounds at mdt.co.uk for the 9 CD Klemperer set.

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