Lox not kosher?

jbuck919 · Post by **jbuck919** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:25 pm

New York Post Updated: Mon., Mar. 8, 2010, 11:04 AM home
Bagel lovers tell rabbis: Don't pick on our lox

By REUVEN FENTON

Last Updated: 11:04 AM, March 8, 2010

Posted: 5:18 AM, March 8, 2010

A group of ultra-Orthodox rabbis is waging a schmear campaign against a staple of the Jewish diet: lox.

Smoked salmon should no longer be considered kosher, they say, because the fish often contain parasitic worms.

But some Jewish New Yorkers aren't taking the lox-down lightly.

"What is a bagel and cream cheese without the lox? It's nothing," kvetched Josh Loberfeld, 29, of Riverdale, a regular at the Mr. Bagel eatery near his Bronx home.

The ban was announced last month when a small group of rabbis decided that a tiny parasitic worm, called anisakis, rendered its host fish nonkosher.

Chevra Mehadrin, a group of hard- line Orthodox rabbis in Monsey, NY, released a list of newly forbidden fish.

But many Orthodox rabbis are blasting the group for hysterics.

"This issue has been resolved in Jewish law for hundreds of years already," said Rabbi Moshe Elefant of the Orthodox Union.

lennygoran · Post by **lennygoran** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:26 pm

>Smoked salmon should no longer be considered kosher, they say, because the fish often contain parasitic worms. But some Jewish New Yorkers aren't taking the lox-down lightly.<

Well I'd be one of them who won't be loxed out--need my lox and smoked salmon--Costco sells it at a great price--btw it freezes beautifully! Regards, Len

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:01 pm

The fanatics are playing with fire. It's one thing for these rabbis to inveigh against abortion, equality for women, gay rights, etc. But lox? I bet not even Saul will bite (or not bite) on this one.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:09 pm

They can say what they like about lox. If they start messing with kippered salmon ... well .... just let them try it.

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:21 pm

What's up with Jews and fish lately?

Israeli Tariff Burdens Supplier Of Gefilte Fish
March 8, 2010

Listen to the Story

Israel recently reinstated a large import tax on Asian carp, which is used to make the Jewish delicacy. One of the largest producers of Asian carp, Schafer Fisheries of Thomson, Ill., has had to lay off nine employees because of lost business.

Mike Derer/APWorkers at the Manischewitz food processing plant in Newark, N.J., package gefilte fish by hand. Israel recently reinstated a large import tax on Asian carp, which is used to make the Jewish delicacy. One of the largest producers of Asian carp, Schafer Fisheries of Thomson, Ill., has had to lay off nine employees because of lost business.
text sizeAAAMarch 8, 2010 As Passover nears, there is a crisis of gefilte fish, a staple at many Seders. The Jewish delicacy is made up of ground fish, often carp. In Israel, mostly Asian carp is used to make gefilte fish, and the country imports the vast majority of this type of carp from Schafer Fisheries in Thomson, Ill.

But recently the Israeli government reinstated a hefty import tax on Asian carp, holding up almost 400,000 pounds of Schafer's frozen carp.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has gotten involved, and some of the fish has been let into Israel. But far more remains in limbo.

"The tariff is 120 percent of the value of the fish," Schafer Fisheries owner Mike Schafer tells NPR's Robert Siegel. "So, it's basically around $1.10-a-pound tariff on the product."

Over the past several years that Schafer Fisheries was selling Asian carp to Israel, there was no tariff on the fish. "This really came as a surprise to us," Schafer says. "We weren't aware of it, and we were producing large numbers of them and freezing them."

And the Israeli factory that produces the gefilte fish would rather keep the fish offshore than pay the tax that, in effect, doubles the cost of the product.

As a result, Schafer's business is hurting. He has laid off nine people and says it is difficult to stay in business and continue to buy the same amount of Asian carp.

To add to Schafer's problem, Illinois wants Schafer Fisheries to increase its production of Asian carp for environmental reasons. The fish, which swims upstream in the Mississippi, can grow to be 4 feet long and weigh 100 pounds, and it consumes large amounts of the living organisms found in lakes. The fish consume so much of the living organisms that Asian carp could ravage fisheries in the Great Lakes, Michigan's attorney general said recently.

"Last year, we handled a little over 12 million pounds of them, and they would like to see us step that up to 36 million for this coming season," Schafer says. "They want to control the population of the fish."

But Schafer says is he trying to get Asian carp recognized as a food source for humanitarian food aid — as a protein source.

"Right now, if you think about [it], Haiti's using over a million pounds a day of imported protein source," Schafer says. "There's a huge demand there, and this could be a very viable food source for helping those people."

SaulChanukah · Post by **SaulChanukah** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:53 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:What's up with Jews and fish lately?

Tell you the truth this whole story about the lox or the gefilte fish , doesn’t interest me at all.

There is a very simple method on how to break down all the arguments that can arise in the Jewish community.

The Mishname says : 'Ase Lecha Rav'.

Meaning 'Find yourself a Rabbi'.

That's means if you love lox and can't live your life without it, then go and find yourself An Orthodox Jewish Rabbi who is competent in Halacha, and ask him what to do, and trust his advice.
He tells you that you can eat the Lox , then eat it, and if he tells you don't eat it, then don't. As simple as that.

I myself, am not a big fan of Lox. Finely well made cooked or baked fish, is my preference. I also cant stand sushi, and I don't care if its kosher or not, I just can't stand it, even though here in the orthodox community it is very popular. I like Georgian and Israeli foods, things that I am used to and know, and I'm not so much into 'tasting new things', I'm pretty old fashioned.

When do I eat lox?

Parties, Birthdays, Events, if its there I'll have some but I'm not a bagel guy. I don't even eat bagels, I think they are too hard, its like chewing on board, I don't know what kind of teeth those bagel lovers have, but I'm just not into these things.

My favorites of course are Georgian breads, but they are not available, breads like Shotis and Lavashi, are just amazingly delicious, they are considered the best Georgian breads. And I have never tasted in my entire life more delicious breads then those.

So since these are not available, I enjoy Whole Wheat breads, anything from Baguettes to , rolls, and even just plain whole wheat sliced bread.

I'm not into cream cheese as well, I like real cheese, well Garnished mozzarella is my thing, but of course the famous Georgian cheese called Sulliguli is the best tasting cheese in the whole world hands down but its not available in the states. Take that Suliguli cheese, with a nice Georgian Lavashi warm bread, with fresh olives and olive oil and some ice cold spring water and a nice bottle of red wine, that's the best food that one can have, natural , refreshing and incredibly delicious.

MarkC · Post by **MarkC** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:13 am

I'm Jewish......and I always thought lox was a little bit GROSS.
No fooling.

I don't think I've ever tasted it. I mean maybe once, but I probably spat it out.

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:03 am

Barry wrote:They can say what they like about lox. If they start messing with kippered salmon ... well .... just let them try it.

*****

Barry,

Did you know that the Grand Rebbe Mendel of Piscataway has forbidden Orthodox Jews to drink milk shakes because they are "the devil's own drink?"

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:07 am

MarkC wrote:I'm Jewish......and I always thought lox was a little bit GROSS.
No fooling.

I don't think I've ever tasted it. I mean maybe once, but I probably spat it out.

*****

Hmmm, Freud wrote in an undiscovered paper about a patient he called "Bubby" who hated lox and it turned out under analysis that he believed his mother tried to kill him with lox when he was an infant. A fascinating account that should see the light of day.

SaulChanukah · Post by **SaulChanukah** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:10 am

Ralph wrote:
Barry wrote:They can say what they like about lox. If they start messing with kippered salmon ... well .... just let them try it.
*****

Barry,

Did you know that the Grand Rebbe Mendel of Piscataway has forbidden Orthodox Jews to drink milk shakes because they are "the devil's own drink?"

Hope you will come down soon from your hot air balloon, Ralph...

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:48 am

Saul wrote:Tell you the truth this whole story about the lox or the gefilte fish , doesn’t interest me at all.

My contribution was solely because I remembered the thread and didn't think there was a difference between their foul-smelling subjects.

I am curious about what motivated the tariff, from a trade/market/political/mideast-tensions POV, but certainly not from a gustatory POV - I ain't about to eat either.

Saul wrote:There is a very simple method on how to break down all the arguments that can arise in the Jewish community.

The Mishname says : 'Ase Lecha Rav'.

Meaning 'Find yourself a Rabbi'.

A time-honored tradition we call, "forum-shopping."

MarkC wrote:I'm Jewish......and I always thought lox was a little bit GROSS.
No fooling.

I don't think I've ever tasted it. I mean maybe once, but I probably spat it out.

My mother liked it, but then she liked gefilte fish, sardines, and anchovies - all which engaged my gag reflex. I can't stand fish unless it has no smell and a very mild taste.

MarkC · Post by **MarkC** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:52 am

Corlyss_D wrote:......I can't stand fish unless it has no smell and a very mild taste.

I've been led to understand that's the case with just about any fish that you catch yourself and eat freshly.

(Or is it "eat fresh"......I'm not really sure.)

Is there anywhere we can go to catch fresh lox?
On second thought, don't tell me, I don't think I want to know......

living_stradivarius · Post by **living_stradivarius** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:20 am

Lox with capers are one of my favorite things to munch on. My best friend in San Fran makes the best

. Hope those worms aren't on the rise though

Corlyss_D wrote:My mother liked it, but then she liked gefilte fish, sardines, and anchovies - all which engaged my gag reflex. I can't stand fish unless it has no smell and a very mild taste.

Does sushi qualify as edible?

lennygoran · Post by **lennygoran** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:35 am

>If they start messing with kippered salmon<

I'll go to war over white fish spread! Regards, Len

lennygoran · Post by **lennygoran** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:43 am

>she liked gefilte fish, sardines, and anchovies <

Now you're talking--try that gefilte fish with some Horseradish and matzohs, yummy--and after many years I've convinced my wife that anchovies on pizza are the greatest! Regards, Len

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:25 am

Ralph wrote:
Barry wrote:They can say what they like about lox. If they start messing with kippered salmon ... well .... just let them try it.
*****

Barry,

Did you know that the Grand Rebbe Mendel of Piscataway has forbidden Orthodox Jews to drink milk shakes because they are "the devil's own drink?"

You missed the second half of the statement, Ralph. It's no milkshakes with a burger!

living_stradivarius · Post by **living_stradivarius** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:43 am

Barry wrote:
Ralph wrote:
Barry wrote:They can say what they like about lox. If they start messing with kippered salmon ... well .... just let them try it.
*****

Barry,

Did you know that the Grand Rebbe Mendel of Piscataway has forbidden Orthodox Jews to drink milk shakes because they are "the devil's own drink?"
You missed the second half of the statement, Ralph. It's no milkshakes with a burger!

Yup can't forget that the devil can't have those milkshakes without those burgers.

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:29 am

SaulChanukah wrote:
Ralph wrote:
Barry wrote:They can say what they like about lox. If they start messing with kippered salmon ... well .... just let them try it.
*****

Barry,

Did you know that the Grand Rebbe Mendel of Piscataway has forbidden Orthodox Jews to drink milk shakes because they are "the devil's own drink?"
Hope you will come down soon from your hot air balloon, Ralph...

*****

Saul,

Would you come as my guest for a hot air bal;loon ride in New Jersey in the spring? It will be a great chance to get to know each other as we silently glide over the verdant landscape of the Garden State.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:32 am

Ralph wrote:
SaulChanukah wrote:
Ralph wrote:
Barry wrote:They can say what they like about lox. If they start messing with kippered salmon ... well .... just let them try it.
*****

Barry,

Did you know that the Grand Rebbe Mendel of Piscataway has forbidden Orthodox Jews to drink milk shakes because they are "the devil's own drink?"
Hope you will come down soon from your hot air balloon, Ralph...
*****

Saul,

Would you come as my guest for a hot air bal;loon ride in New Jersey in the spring? It will be a great chance to get to know each other as we silently glide over the verdant landscape of the Garden State.

If you get far enough south, call and I'll cross the river to wave up at you.

MarkC · Post by **MarkC** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:24 pm

living_stradivarius wrote:Does sushi qualify as edible?

In the words of Margaret Dumont, "I should say not."

Febnyc · Post by **Febnyc** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:51 pm

A hungry young Rebbe named Fox
Ate a large bagel with lox;
He was sure it was safe
But learned the salmon was treyf;
"So what?," said the Rebbe, "lox rocks!"

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:53 pm

Febnyc wrote:A hungry young Rebbe named Knox
Ate a large bagel with lox;
He was sure it was safe
But learned the salmon was treyf
So what?, said the Rebbe, lox rocks!

You probably don't remember, Frank, but you had some sort of lox platter when we ate with Ralph and Adam (Chanan) at 2nd Avenue Deli a number of years ago. As the place was (is?) kosher, I'm assuming there was no cream cheese involved.

I have a good memory for food-related things.

Febnyc · Post by **Febnyc** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:58 pm

Barry - I very well remember our awfully nice lunch at the Second Ave Deli, but not what I ate. It was your excellent company which was the point of my attention and not the food. However, if you say it was lox, I believe it! (Although I am not sure if it was a kosher restaurant - how could I have eaten lox without the cream cheese? Not possible!) The best place in NYC for that sort of stuff, in my opinion, is Barney Greengrass on Amsterdam Avenue in the west 80s. Their kippered salmon is fit for the Gods!

jbuck919 · Post by **jbuck919** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:14 pm

Febnyc wrote:A hungry young Rebbe named Fox
Ate a large bagel with lox;
He was sure it was safe
But learned the salmon was treyf;
"So what?," said the Rebbe, "lox rocks!"

His friend, nonobservant Shapiro,
Who even liked pork on a hero,
Said "A bug in my fish
Means I can't eat that dish,
And my interest in kosher is zero."

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:29 pm

Febnyc wrote:Barry - I very well remember our awfully nice lunch at the Second Ave Deli, but not what I ate. It was your excellent company which was the point of my attention and not the food. However, if you say it was lox, I believe it! (Although I am not sure if it was a kosher restaurant - how could I have eaten lox without the cream cheese? Not possible!) The best place in NYC for that sort of stuff, in my opinion, is Barney Greengrass on Amsterdam Avenue in the west 80s. Their kippered salmon is fit for the Gods!

Adam and I also had a meal with Ralph at Barney Greengrass, probably a few years after the 2nd Ave. Deli get-together. I agree with you. Barney is the place to go for a good Jewish breakfast-brunch.

Febnyc · Post by **Febnyc** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:38 pm

jbuck919 wrote:
Febnyc wrote:A hungry young Rebbe named Fox
Ate a large bagel with lox;
He was sure it was safe
But learned the salmon was treyf;
"So what?," said the Rebbe, "lox rocks!"
His friend, nonobservant Shapiro,
Who even liked pork on a hero,
Said "A bug in my fish
Means I can't eat that dish,
And my interest in kosher is zero."

jbuck919, I would fear,
Is gifted, like Edward Lear.
His rhymes are so clever
They're unsurpassed whatsoever,
And certainly treasured 'round here.

lennygoran · Post by **lennygoran** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:09 pm

>Barney is the place to go for a good Jewish breakfast-brunch.<

Forget Barney-forget breakfast--Sammy's Roumanian--that's the place to get to--the only restaurant where my cast iron stomach let me down and I got heart burn! Regards, Len

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:18 pm

Febnyc wrote:Barry - I very well remember our awfully nice lunch at the Second Ave Deli, but not what I ate. It was your excellent company which was the point of my attention and not the food. However, if you say it was lox, I believe it! (Although I am not sure if it was a kosher restaurant - how could I have eaten lox without the cream cheese? Not possible!) The best place in NYC for that sort of stuff, in my opinion, is Barney Greengrass on Amsterdam Avenue in the west 80s. Their kippered salmon is fit for the Gods!

*****

I remember that lunch well. The Second Avenue Deli isn't kosher. Yes, I have a fond memory of Frank's face disappearing behind a large bagel laden with lox and oozing cream cheese.

SaulChanukah · Post by **SaulChanukah** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:04 pm

Ralph wrote:
SaulChanukah wrote:
Ralph wrote:
Barry wrote:They can say what they like about lox. If they start messing with kippered salmon ... well .... just let them try it.
*****

Barry,

Did you know that the Grand Rebbe Mendel of Piscataway has forbidden Orthodox Jews to drink milk shakes because they are "the devil's own drink?"
Hope you will come down soon from your hot air balloon, Ralph...
*****

Saul,

Would you come as my guest for a hot air bal;loon ride in New Jersey in the spring? It will be a great chance to get to know each other as we silently glide over the verdant landscape of the Garden State.

Ah.. the topics that we'll talk about as we softly glide across NJ...

P.S we can talk about any topic, besides lox...

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:43 pm

lennygoran wrote:>Barney is the place to go for a good Jewish breakfast-brunch.<

Forget Barney-forget breakfast--Sammy's Roumanian--that's the place to get to--the only restaurant where my cast iron stomach let me down and I got heart burn! Regards, Len

Not only have I been to Sammy's on several occasions, but I also wrote an article about them for the paper I work at a number of years ago.

However, Sammy's doesn't serve breakfast or brunch, so they aren't in competition with Barney Greengrass.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:44 pm

Ralph wrote:
Febnyc wrote:Barry - I very well remember our awfully nice lunch at the Second Ave Deli, but not what I ate. It was your excellent company which was the point of my attention and not the food. However, if you say it was lox, I believe it! (Although I am not sure if it was a kosher restaurant - how could I have eaten lox without the cream cheese? Not possible!) The best place in NYC for that sort of stuff, in my opinion, is Barney Greengrass on Amsterdam Avenue in the west 80s. Their kippered salmon is fit for the Gods!
*****

I remember that lunch well. The Second Avenue Deli isn't kosher. Yes, I have a fond memory of Frank's face disappearing behind a large bagel laden with lox and oozing cream cheese.

I haven't been to the new Second Ave. Deli. But was the old one definitely not kosher? I thought it was the only one of the famous NYC delis that actually was. I know Katz's, Carnegie and Stage aren't.

SaulChanukah · Post by **SaulChanukah** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:08 am

Barry wrote:
Ralph wrote:
Febnyc wrote:Barry - I very well remember our awfully nice lunch at the Second Ave Deli, but not what I ate. It was your excellent company which was the point of my attention and not the food. However, if you say it was lox, I believe it! (Although I am not sure if it was a kosher restaurant - how could I have eaten lox without the cream cheese? Not possible!) The best place in NYC for that sort of stuff, in my opinion, is Barney Greengrass on Amsterdam Avenue in the west 80s. Their kippered salmon is fit for the Gods!
*****

I remember that lunch well. The Second Avenue Deli isn't kosher. Yes, I have a fond memory of Frank's face disappearing behind a large bagel laden with lox and oozing cream cheese.
I haven't been to the new Second Ave. Deli. But was the old one definitely not kosher? I thought it was the only one of the famous NYC delis that actually was. I know Katz's, Carnegie and Stage aren't.

You should really try Noah's Ark Original Deli on 399 Grand St
New York, NY 10002
(212) 674-2200

http://www.noahsark.net/

The food there is great.

I had some nice brisket with mashed potatoes. Also spaghetti and meatballs, totally good!
They make good sandwiches too and they are very famous for burgers, though their burgers are expensive, could reach up to $30 for a burger that is called 'Ginormous Burger'.
Their cheapest burger is $15.

I'm not a burger fan, but thought I should tell all burger lovers here. This restaurant is famous for their burgers, at least that's what they say.

You can download the menus here:

http://www.noahsark.net/menus.asp

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:11 am

SaulChanukah wrote: You should really try Noah's Ark Original Deli on 399 Grand St
New York, NY 10002
(212) 674-2200

http://www.noahsark.net/

The food there is great.

I had some nice brisket with mashed potatoes. Also spaghetti and meatballs, totally good!
They make good sandwiches too and they are very famous for burgers, though their burgers are expensive, could reach up to $30 for a burger that is called 'Ginormous Burger'.
Their cheapest burger is $15.

I'm not a burger fan, but thought I should tell all burger lovers here. This restaurant is famous for their burgers, at least that's what they say.

You can download the menus here:

http://www.noahsark.net/menus.asp

Thanks Saul, but I'm rarely in NYC now days. I did have a meal in this kosher restaurant a number of years ago and recall thinking it was pretty good:

http://www.menupages.com/restaurants/wolf-lamb/

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:30 am

Barry wrote:
Ralph wrote:
Febnyc wrote:Barry - I very well remember our awfully nice lunch at the Second Ave Deli, but not what I ate. It was your excellent company which was the point of my attention and not the food. However, if you say it was lox, I believe it! (Although I am not sure if it was a kosher restaurant - how could I have eaten lox without the cream cheese? Not possible!) The best place in NYC for that sort of stuff, in my opinion, is Barney Greengrass on Amsterdam Avenue in the west 80s. Their kippered salmon is fit for the Gods!
*****

I remember that lunch well. The Second Avenue Deli isn't kosher. Yes, I have a fond memory of Frank's face disappearing behind a large bagel laden with lox and oozing cream cheese.
I haven't been to the new Second Ave. Deli. But was the old one definitely not kosher? I thought it was the only one of the famous NYC delis that actually was. I know Katz's, Carnegie and Stage aren't.

*****

Yeah I think it was or is but not glatt kosher.

lennygoran · Post by **lennygoran** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:33 am

>but I also wrote an article about them for the paper I work at a number of years ago. <

Where can I read it! Turns out I'm a natural at mixing an egg cream.

Let me check your credentials--what's the longest you ever waited to have one of those famous Wolfie's breakfasts down in Mami Beach. Regards, Len [dating himself]

lennygoran · Post by **lennygoran** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:37 am

>famous NYC delis <

We have a pretty incredible place here in NJ--it's far from where I live but so is everything out here in the boondocks! Don't know if it's Kosher or not but it doesn't matter afaiac!

http://www.haroldsfamousdeli.com/

Regards, Len

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:13 am

lennygoran wrote:>but I also wrote an article about them for the paper I work at a number of years ago. <

Where can I read it! Turns out I'm a natural at mixing an egg cream. Let me check your credentials--what's the longest you ever waited to have one of those famous Wolfie's breakfasts down in Mami Beach. Regards, Len [dating himself]

I'll see if our archives system is working when I get to the office and try to post it later. Much to my delight, the last time I was at Sammy's a few years ago, they had a couple copies of the article hanging on their wall along with other reviews and write-ups.

Hate to tell you, but I've never been to Miami.

But I know about Wolfie's from roadfood.com.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:14 am

lennygoran wrote:>famous NYC delis <

We have a pretty incredible place here in NJ--it's far from where I live but so is everything out here in the boondocks! Don't know if it's Kosher or not but it doesn't matter afaiac!

http://www.haroldsfamousdeli.com/

Regards, Len

Funny you should mention Harold's. It's the restaurant of the day on http://www.roadfood.com.

They have loads of photos of their sandwiches on there. I've never seen anything like it. They make Carnegie Deli sandwiches look small in comparison.

The Jewish (not kosher) deli scene in Philly, at least Center City, has gotten dramatically better in the past decade or so. My personal favorite at this point is Hershel's East-side Deli in the Reading Terminal. Their sandwiches aren't insanely thick, but like Katz's in NYC, they hand-carve fresh-from-the-oven corned beefs, pastramis and briskets.
I found that once I got used to hand-carved corned beef and pastrami sandwiches, it's hard to go back to machine-sliced meat. The texture of the sandwich is different, and less satisfying to me.

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:05 pm

Barry wrote:
lennygoran wrote:>but I also wrote an article about them for the paper I work at a number of years ago. <

Where can I read it! Turns out I'm a natural at mixing an egg cream. Regards, Len [dating himself]
I'll see if our archives system is working when I get to the office and try to post it later. Much to my delight, the last time I was at Sammy's a few years ago, they had a couple copies of the article hanging on their wall along with other reviews and write-ups.

Here you go Len:

Market Basket
Dec. 12, 2001
Romanian-Jewish delicacies - plus the calories
By Barry (leaving out last name and name of publication)

You say chopped liver and mashed potatoes aren't the same without schmaltz? Do you miss the crazy family meals of your youth? Has it been too long since you've had sliced brains with stuffed cabbage?

If any of that rings a bell, Famous Sammy's Roumanian Steak House on New York's Lower East Side is the place for you. Stepping into this eatery is like stepping back in time to when Jewish mothers cooked without worrying about fat content and family celebrations were no-holds-barred get-togethers complete with food, dancing and lots of high-volume, simultaneous talking.

There is nothing even remotely resembling formality at Sammy's. The atmosphere is like something out of a low-budget 1950s bar mitzvah. The room is very small, and there isn't much space between the tables. The floor is 50-year-old yellow tile, and the walls are blanketed with photos and other mementos collected over several decades.

Entertainment is by a keyboardist who sings and plays traditional Jewish and popular songs. It's not unusual for people from various tables to spontaneously start a line dance that circles the inside of the restaurant, weaving its way between tables.

The food at Sammy's is Romanian-Jewish, but it should be familiar to most Jews whose families came to the United States from Eastern Europe. On each table is a bowl of pickles and sour tomatoes, a dish of marinated peppers, and a pancake-syrup container filled with schmaltz, or chicken fat. (Sammy's isn't for people with heart conditions. )

Schmaltz was a staple of Jewish cooking a couple of generations ago, used instead of butter because meat and dairy can't be mixed in kosher households. At Sammy's, it's the glue that holds together the most delicious chopped liver and onions I've ever tasted. It also goes nicely with mashed potatoes blended with fried onions.

Other traditional appetizers include Romanian karnatzlack, which is a kind of sausage; broiled chicken livers with "unborn" eggs (egg yolks); and kishke (sausage). Among the side dishes are the above-mentioned mashed potatoes served with or without schmaltz and greeven (a mix of fried chicken fat and onions); latkes (potato pancakes) with applesauce; and kasha varniskes (buckwheat groats and bow-tie pasta with onions).

Just when you thought you couldn't fit any more calories into your body, it's time for the main course. There's a very limited selection of fish and chicken on the menu, but Sammy's is known for its steaks.

The signature steak is the Roumanian tenderloin, which comes with or without fresh garlic smeared on top and is available in three sizes. The large is so long that it hangs off the plate by several inches. A friend and I shared a medium, and it was more than enough for us.

It's better to try a little bit of many things at Sammy's than to fill up on steak and not be able to sample a variety of the unique appetizers and sides.

Dessert is more New York than Eastern European Jewish. Each table is given seltzer in spray bottles, a carton of milk, and a jar of chocolate syrup. Those are all the ingredients you need to make your own egg creams. If you have room for more, chocolate pudding and a plate of rugalach are available.

Even if you shiver at the idea of schmaltz and sliced brains with stuffed cabbage, Sammy's is about much more than food. It's about turning back the clock and experiencing a culture that once thrived in places such as New York's Lower East Side and South Philadelphia.

Don't forget to pick up a complimentary dictionary of basic Yiddish on your way out.

lennygoran · Post by **lennygoran** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:40 pm

I look forward to reading it-we're in nyc for boheme and the nose right now,no plans for deli eating on this trip!
Len with clumsy bb

Barry wrote:
lennygoran wrote:>but I also wrote an article about them for the paper I work at a number of years ago. <

Where can I read it! Turns out I'm a natural at mixing an egg cream. Let me check your credentials--what's the longest you ever waited to have one of those famous Wolfie's breakfasts down in Mami Beach. Regards, Len [dating himself]
I'll see if our archives system is working when I get to the office and try to post it later. Much to my delight, the last time I was at Sammy's a few years ago, they had a couple copies of the article hanging on their wall along with other reviews and write-ups.

Hate to tell you, but I've never been to Miami. But I know about Wolfie's from roadfood.com.

lennygoran · Post by **lennygoran** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:45 pm

Yes here in nj we're much more than just the garden state!
Len

Barry wrote:
lennygoran wrote:>famous NYC delis <

We have a pretty incredible place here in NJ--it's far from where I live but so is everything out here in the boondocks! Don't know if it's Kosher or not but it doesn't matter afaiac!

http://www.haroldsfamousdeli.com/

Regards, Len
Funny you should mention Harold's. It's the restaurant of the day on http://www.roadfood.com.

They have loads of photos of their sandwiches on there. I've never seen anything like it. They make Carnegie Deli sandwiches look small in comparison.

The Jewish (not kosher) deli scene in Philly, at least Center City, has gotten dramatically better in the past decade or so. My personal favorite at this point is Hershel's East-side Deli in the Reading Terminal. Their sandwiches aren't insanely thick, but like Katz's in NYC, they hand-carve fresh-from-the-oven corned beefs, pastramis and briskets.
I found that once I got used to hand-carved corned beef and pastrami sandwiches, it's hard to go back to machine-sliced meat. The texture of the sandwich is different, and less satisfying to me.

Donald Isler · Post by **Donald Isler** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:17 pm

Corlyss wrote:

"My contribution was solely because I remembered the thread and didn't think there was a difference between their foul-smelling subjects."

WHAT????!!!!

Oh, you're talking about the fish!!

I thought this was another opportunity to accuse someone of anti-semitism!!

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:09 pm

Donald Isler wrote:Corlyss wrote:

"My contribution was solely because I remembered the thread and didn't think there was a difference between their foul-smelling subjects."

WHAT????!!!!

Oh, you're talking about the fish!!

Strictly. I've no interest in fish other than as a public policy issue. I don't have to smell or eat a public policy issue.

I thought this was another opportunity to accuse someone of anti-semitism!!

Really? That's not my schtick.

Donald Isler · Post by **Donald Isler** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:41 pm

Corlyss,

I was KIDDING! (Thought that was obvious.)

Daisy · Post by **Daisy** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:33 am

Screw that! I'm not giving up MY lox & bagels!

Agnes Selby · Post by **Agnes Selby** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:41 am

Daisy wrote:Screw that! I'm not giving up MY lox & bagels!

Dear old friend, Daisy, Do you know, I have never tasted lox and bagels!
Nice to see you here.

Love,
Agnes.

jbuck919 · Post by **jbuck919** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:51 am

Agnes Selby wrote:
Daisy wrote:Screw that! I'm not giving up MY lox & bagels!
Dear old friend, Daisy, Do you know, I have never tasted lox and bagels!
Nice to see you here.

Love,
Agnes.

I think we have to organize an emergency shipment immediately.

living_stradivarius · Post by **living_stradivarius** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:04 am

Go for it

http://cgi.ebay.com/BAGEL-CREAM-CHEESE- ... _500wt_891

Agnes Selby · Post by **Agnes Selby** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:32 pm

jbuck919 wrote:
Agnes Selby wrote:
Daisy wrote:Screw that! I'm not giving up MY lox & bagels!
Dear old friend, Daisy, Do you know, I have never tasted lox and bagels!
Nice to see you here.

Love,
Agnes.
I think we have to organize an emergency shipment immediately.

I think it would be a waste of time, John, as I never eat
fish. When I cook it for my husband I always wear surgical
gloves so that the fish smell does not remain on my hands.
But I believe lox is a bonzer dish, so - Enjoy!!!!

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