The Weather

[Cosima___J]

I feel really sorry for all those people who have been hit by ice storms. We have a relative that lives in Plano (suburb of Dallas). She reports that several of her tree limbs are so coated with ice that they have partially broken off. Guess she'll have to get somebody to saw them down. The upside is that she was sent home early from work and probably won't go in tomorrow.

No ice here (although even in Augusta, GA we have occasionally had ice storms), but the temperatures are all over the place. The newspaper this morning predicted the following highs:

Today: 52
Monday: 72
Tuesday: 73
Wednesday: 52

Hope all is well weatherwise with the Pubsters.

[jbuck919]

It doesn't seem quite fair that I'm having it easier than many people in parts of the country less prepared for early winter weather, or winter weather at all. My Maryland Facebook friends are talking about seven inches of snow, which was unheard of this early in the 25 years I lived there.

[John F]

It's snowing now in New York City - nothing dramatic, but we aren't completely escaping the wintry weather.

[lennygoran]

It doesn't seem quite fair that I'm having it easier than many people in parts of the country less prepared for early winter weather, or winter weather at all.

Disagree I think it's more than fair! Regards, Len

[piston]

I think that Maine is part of the Arctic warming zone. Just a snow "dust" here today. Plenty of rain before that. For scientific purposes, it would be useful to gather data, nationwide, on the earliest date when the snow shovel is needed. Did Texas beat Maine this year?!!!

[lennygoran]

I think that Maine is part of the Arctic warming zone. Just a snow "dust" here today. Plenty of rain before that. For scientific purposes, it would be useful to gather data, nationwide, on the earliest date when the snow shovel is needed. Did Texas beat Maine this year?!!!

WE're getting our first real snow today--this after yesterday's ice and the deep freeze coming in later do not make me happy. Regards, Len

[Cosima___J]

Well Len, my Yankee friend, (from a former Yankee), all you need to do is hire a moving van and move down here to the sunny South. You would love it! I do. I've never given one thought to moving back to Illinois. Come on down.

Cosi

[jbuck919]

Well Len, my Yankee friend, (from a former Yankee), all you need to do is hire a moving van and move down here to the sunny South. You would love it! I do. I've never given one thought to moving back to Illinois. Come on down.

Can all us liberal northerners come too? I'd really like to have a senior career as a Medicaid patient advocate after Georgia accepts the expansion.

[Cosima___J]

Yes, even you jbuck can come.

[jbuck919]

Yes, even you jbuck can come.

[lennygoran]

Well Len, my Yankee friend, (from a former Yankee), all you need to do is hire a moving van and move down here to the sunny South. You would love it!

Cosi surely you jest--with all your heat in the summer forget it! Regards, Len

[jbuck919]

Well Len, my Yankee friend, (from a former Yankee), all you need to do is hire a moving van and move down here to the sunny South. You would love it!

Cosi surely you jest--with all your heat in the summer forget it! Regards, Len

It's bad enough in New Jersey. It's easy to understand how Molly Pitcher literally saved lives at the Battle of Monmouth, which took place in the middle of a heat wave.

In Maryland I taught for eleven years at a school that had no air conditioning. September was a nightmare. One year after back-to-school night the parents were so appalled that they funded overhead fans, which did precisely nothing. The state had a rule that if it was 90 degrees by 11:00, everybody had to be sent home, and it happened several times. At home the thermostat-controlled central air went on in April and didn't come off until October. I'll take a cold winter over a hot summer any day.

[John F]

Yeah, there's no limit to the amount of clothing you can put on, but a definite limit to how much you can take off.

[lennygoran]

Molly Pitcher literally saved lives

This reminded me of the lovely lunch we had a few months ago down near the Jersey shore in Red Bank at the Molly Pitcher Inn--we may get a few dog days of august but I sure can take that and usually get my gardening done quite nicely--I know gardeners who live in the South--they swelter! Regards, Len

[Cosima___J]

Oh what a bunch of pansies! Heat builds character.

And Len the Gardener, I guess up there in that northern air, you have shorter growing seasons.

[lennygoran]

And Len the Gardener, I guess up there in that northern air, you have shorter growing seasons.

Cosi sure--kick a guy when he's down--okay this weather has been truly cold and bad--I hate it--still it is nice to be a couch potato for a while! Regards, Len

PS-I've heard your Georgia weather this season hasn't been so mild either!

[jbuck919]

Now here's a weather condition I haven't heard of in the US: Freezing fog. It is a regular occurrence in Germany, but not accompanied by heavy snow. I'm a week ahead of myself, but I can't help thinking of a perversion of the marvelously poetic introit for the Fourth Sunday of Advent.



Drop down dew, you heavens, from above, and let the clouds rain forth the just one. Let the Earth open and bring forth a savior. [Psalm verse] The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament shows the work of his hand.

[jbuck919]

They're forecasting a high of 9 today with a low of 9 below overnight. I've seen 30 below here (though it was some years ago), but I'm having a harder time with it just now for some reason. Age, maybe.

[lennygoran]

They're forecasting a high of 9 today with a low of 9 below overnight. I've seen 30 below here (though it was some years ago), but I'm having a harder time with it just now for some reason. Age, maybe.

I'm having a tougher time too--could be age and also I feel this real cold weather began too soon. I also feel Mother Nature cheated us out of a really nice Indian Summer. Our temps have been cold but not like your high of 9--just horrible. Regards, Len

[Cosima___J]

Here are some fascinating weather-related photos from the past year.

http://www.weather.com/news/science/wea ... 3-20131216

Sorry about the annoying adds.

[piston]

I am a Nordic person who does not like the South, east or west. On the west coast, San Francisco is as far south as I will go. So, peaches and all, Cosima, I am not attracted by Georgia.

But it's been messy here with freezing rain for a good forty-eight hours. Over fifty thousand Maine "customers" are out of power, which, assuming an average of two people per "customer," is a good chunk of the state population. Which situation leads me to the following comment:

Why on earth are we so late in burying our electric lines under ground?!! It ain't going to get any better in this global climate volatility! Why do we depend on lines twenty plus feet above ground to maintain our standards of living?!!

[jbuck919]

I am a Nordic person who does not like the South, east or west. On the west coast, San Francisco is as far south as I will go. So, peaches and all, Cosima, I am not attracted by Georgia.

But it's been messy here with freezing rain for a good forty-eight hours. Over fifty thousand Maine "customers" are out of power, which, assuming an average of two people per "customer," is a good chunk of the state population. Which situation leads me to the following comment:

Why on earth are we so late in burying our electric lines under ground?!! It ain't going to get any better in this global climate volatility! Why do we depend on lines twenty plus feet above ground to maintain our standards of living?!!

I'm very lucky to have missed the ice; I got it as mist and drizzle instead. The front wasn't that far north of me.

I've always assumed that the standard story that burying the power lines everywhere is too expensive is the correct explanation. There was a disastrous week-long winter power failure in Columbia, Maryland while I was there. Again, I happened to live in a neighborhood that was spared, but families had to move to hotels or other temporary quarters. But the point is that all the power lines in Columbia, a planned community, were put underground to begin with. There's more wrong with the fragility of the power grid than the likelihood of tree branches falling on a line and knocking out power. Around here they've spent years hardening the system to make it more robust against that common occurrence, with the result that my back-up generator has seen much less use than would have been the case ten years ago.

On the other hand, I don't remember ever seeing an above-ground power line in Germany. They use the space for rail lines instead.

[piston]

Define "expensive." How expensive are countless linesmen working around the clock to restore power to fifty thousand customers? And why is this "normal" several times a year, when lines could be buried instead? I do not know about the Maryland situation you refer to, but, surely, there's got to be some reliable comparative studies out there concerning the respective maintenance costs of these two technologies over, say, a twenty-year period.

[jbuck919]

Define "expensive." How expensive are countless linesmen working around the clock to restore power to fifty thousand customers? And why is this "normal" several times a year, when lines could be buried instead? I do not know about the Maryland situation you refer to, but, surely, there's got to be some reliable comparative studies out there concerning the respective maintenance costs of these two technologies over, say, a twenty-year period.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... wer-lines/

[piston]

Depends on location, it seems, with much variation from place to place. Which is another way of saying that non-flood prone areas may find it cheaper to bury than to expose, particularly in icing environents.

[jbuck919]

Depends on location, it seems, with much variation from place to place. Which is another way of saying that non-flood prone areas may find it cheaper to bury than to expose, particularly in icing environents.

But we both live in or near highly rural areas. The cost of electrifying them at all was an issue when my mother was a girl around here. It's hard to imagine spreading the cost of burying the lines among so few customers, or spreading the expense among the general population just so rural folk will have fewer power failures.

I realize that your point is that it might be costing them more to keep making repairs after storm damage than to bury the lines, but I can't believe they have not done that study and come up with a negative answer. Around here there is the additional consideration of the enormous environmental impact of digging to bury the lines. I don't see the Adirondack Park Agency approving that.

Nobody is more aware than I am that we look like a third-world country with all those above-ground lines. (Some people think we have the same problem because most of our housing construction is wood.) Among other things, they are hideous, and we only don't notice that because we are so used to them. But it's hard to see a way around the objections in a country where normal life extends so far into the boondocks.

[piston]

Let us suggest that wage-earners who would otherwise be paid nearly a minimum wage by extremely wealthy corporations, such as Walmart, to be paid nearly a minimum wage burying electrical lines instead. Much of what Walmart sells is crap, anyway, so let's move labor resources in more productive directions........

[lennygoran]

I am a Nordic person who does not like the South, east or west.

In the winter I love the south--from Miami to LA! BTW the 3 day reprieve where here in the NJ boondocks it hit 68 degrees what a delight. All the darn snow is gone--the garden is green again! Regards, Len

[lennygoran]

I'm very lucky to have missed the ice;

Timing could have been better for us re: the ice--on the 2 nights we went to see HD opera and ballet we got back late--our snow plow guy wasn't coming until the next morning--we had to park the car near the bottom of the driveway--the tires just couldn't get us all the up to the garage--I hate snow and ice--oh add thunder and lightning too while I'm at it. Regards, Len

[lennygoran]

Much of what Walmart sells is crap, anyway, so let's move labor resources in more productive directions........

Can't agree with that assessment--more and more it and Sams Club have become my stores of choice--one stop shopping, great prices--we still use Costco as well but the Walmart is 15 minutes closer and when it came to a new 50 inch TV Sams had a better selection that Costco--at least on the day we went looking. Regards, Len

[piston]

Walmart has a serious ethical problem. Even Pope Francis is aware of that problem.

Eighteen hundred linesmen (I'm sure there's a few women in there too) have been working non-stop since last Thursday in this state. The number of "customers" out of power increased from around fifty thousand to over one hundred thousand. As of tonight, these linesmen have restored power for forty-three thousand "customers," leaving sixty-two thousand one more night in the cold.

John B: How much do you think these linesmen are paid? Five, six hundred dollars a day? That adds up pretty fast, doesn't it?!

I still believe that localities are short-sighted when they invest in above ground lines. Bite the bullet and get this sort of situation out of the way, for ever!

A quarter inch of ice on above-ground lines adds fifty pounds of weight to those lines......

[jbuck919]

Walmart has a serious ethical problem. Even Pope Francis is aware of that problem.

Eighteen hundred linesmen (I'm sure there's a few women in there too) have been working non-stop since last Thursday in this state. The number of "customers" out of power increased from around fifty thousand to over one hundred thousand. As of tonight, these linesmen have restored power for forty-three thousand "customers," leaving sixty-two thousand one more night in the cold.

John B: How much do you think these linesmen are paid? Five, six hundred dollars a day? That adds up pretty fast, doesn't it?!

I still believe that localities are short-sighted when they invest in above ground lines. Bite the bullet and get this sort of situation out of the way, for ever!

A quarter inch of ice on above-ground lines adds fifty pounds of weight to those lines......

You still have to do the cost/benefit analysis for burial of lines, Jacques. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate to us that such an analysis would show it to be more economical (for the consumer, I mean) to bury them outside of urban areas. Personally I am grateful for the highly trained, well paid crews that go out at any time and in all conditions to effect these repairs. I don't believe for a moment that the market is being manipulated to keep them well paid or that they would engage in job actions if burial of power lines were to put them out of a job. Not that you said any such thing, but that is sort of the implication of your post. Be grateful that there are still some honest market-consistent high-paying jobs like that, which even attract some college graduates. And then we can deal with WalMart by the legislation necessary to keep things afloat when more ordinary levels of work don't automatically pay a decent wage.

[piston]

Perhaps it should be a matter of individual choice? After all, we bury our natural gas lines without any issue. But for such an individual choice to become a reality, a "main" line needs to be buried, in addition to the post lines. Duplication, I know, but should not the customers get a voice here?

By the way, John, I hope you keep your generator running outside of your garage. Notwithstanding public annoucements on the radio about the considerable risks involved in running a generator in one's garage, some Mainers have gotten themselves severely intoxicated, once again, including an elderly couple in their eighties.

[jbuck919]

Perhaps it should be a matter of individual choice? After all, we bury our natural gas lines without any issue. But for such an individual choice to become a reality, a "main" line needs to be buried, in addition to the post lines. Duplication, I know, but should not the customers get a voice here?

Actually that's not quite right. Do you know of anywhere in the world where gas lines are above ground? Having them buried is a necessity. And main power lines (the ones on gigantic steel towers that aren't very vulnerable anyway) can be above ground while the peripherals are buried. That's the way it was in Columbia.

By the way, John, I hope you keep your generator running outside of your garage. Notwithstanding public annoucements on the radio about the considerable risks involved in running a generator in one's garage, some Mainers have gotten themselves severely intoxicated, once again, including an elderly couple in their eighties.

My old gas generator had exhaust to the outside, and anyway the garage is a separate building. Several years ago I invested in a propane backup generator which is detached from either building. I also have a CO monitor (works like a fire detector) because I do still have a furnace in the house. But thanks for the warning.

[piston]

I don't follow your logic. My point is that gas lines work under ground and represent a good source of business. Is it such a far cry to imagine power lines also working under ground and generating good business?!

[piston]

According to a short NPR interview, over two years ago, the comparative cost of going underground is ten to one. That is substantial. But to get back to your question about comparative costs, the marketing analysis is hardly sophisticated locationally. Of course, you could be trading costs in a flood-prone zone. But what about non-flood prone zones frequently subjected to severe winter conditions?

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/29/140042767 ... er-outages

[jbuck919]

According to a short NPR interview, over two years ago, the comparative cost of going underground is ten to one. That is substantial. But to get back to your question about comparative costs, the marketing analysis is hardly sophisticated locationally. Of course, you could be trading costs in a flood-prone zone. But what about non-flood prone zones frequently subjected to severe winter conditions?

What do they do in Quebec? (Tee-hee-hee)

[lennygoran]

Walmart has a serious ethical problem. Even Pope Francis is aware of that problem.

Walmart's prices are great and so is the convenience of one stop shopping--the people who go into Walmart's tend to be a very different clientele than those who go into Tiffany or Neiman Marcus--maybe it's these wealthy people and their extravagant spending that have the ethical problem. I'm not that concerned with what Pope Francis has to say--I'm someone who believes the Catholic Church should not have property tax exemptions. Regards, Len

[Cosima___J]

Like I keep saying, ya'll need to move to the South! I'm feeling really sorry for the folks in this Blizzard:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01 ... storm?lite

Hope everyone is safe and warm.

[jbuck919]

Like I keep saying, ya'll need to move to the South! I'm feeling really sorry for the folks in this Blizzard:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01 ... storm?lite

Hope everyone is safe and warm.

We are only having light snow but it is supposed to last all day and then all night. The temperature has not risen above zero and is expected to drop to at least 17 below tonight.

[lennygoran]

Hope everyone is safe and warm.

Thanks, we'll need all the help we can get! Regards, Len

[lennygoran]

Like I keep saying, ya'll need to move to the South!

Cosi why do that--10 inches of snow and 10 degrees--eat your heart out!

Regards, Len

[John F]

That bench looks good enough to eat!

This would be a good time to visit my stepsister in Los Angeles. It's 48° out there and the sun hasn't even come up. But we northerners are made of sterner stuff. The library is expecting me at 3:00 (and the flights are cancelled anyway).

[lennygoran]

That bench looks good enough to eat!
This would be a good time to visit my stepsister in Los Angeles. It's 48° out there and the sun hasn't even come up. But we northerners are made of sterner stuff. The library is expecting me at 3:00 (and the flights are cancelled anyway).

First of all that's a table, not a bench! You better show for the library but be careful --that new Mayor of yours better get that snow cleared up by Sunday--that's when we head in--bad enough I'll probably have to put the car in a garage instead of my usual free street parking.

Well I easily shovelled our small walkway out the front door--the snow was very powdery--as for the driveway we are eagerly waiting for the snowplow man to show up.

Regards, Len

[Ricordanza]

Like I keep saying, ya'll need to move to the South!

Cosima, just for fun, I checked your local newspaper (the Augusta Chronicle) online and the temperature in your area is 12 degrees. So it's my turn to say, hope you keep warm!

[lennygoran]

Like I keep saying, ya'll need to move to the South!

Cosima, just for fun, I checked your local newspaper (the Augusta Chronicle) online and the temperature in your area is 12 degrees. So it's my turn to say, hope you keep warm!

Henry still a little better than nyc`s 8 degrees we woke up to! Len

[barney]

Thinking of you all, as I prepare a coffee and head into the flourishing garden for breakfast. Today will be a very pleasant 25C (77 to you imperial antediluvians). I haven't seen snow since I was last in Europe, and only a few times in my life. I remember being surprised at how cold that stuff was. I hope you are all coping and that no one loses electricity.

[jbuck919]

Thinking of you all, as I prepare a coffee and head into the flourishing garden for breakfast. Today will be a very pleasant 25C (77 to you imperial antediluvians).

Although I wish the US would adopt the metric system and the Celsius scale, or at least teach it as a matter of "bilingualism" from early childhood education, it is a mistake to think that Celsius is inherently more rational than Fahrenheit. There can be nothing more arbitrary than designating the degrees of the freezing point and the boiling point of water at standard temperature and pressure (itself an arbitrary measure) as 0 and 100 respectively, however much that looks neater than 32 and 212. In fact, there is no scientific basis for deciding the size of a degree difference in temperature, though there is one for setting the zero point (absolute zero, as in the Kelvin scale, which uses the Celsius degree).

It's an interesting exercise with brighter students to derive with them the conversion formulas between Fahrenheit and Celsius.

[lennygoran]

Thinking of you all, as I prepare a coffee and head into the flourishing garden for breakfast.

Barney I think I hate you! We just got back from nyc--brutally cold but we accomplished what we wanted with just a modification or 2--some really magnificent museum shows including one from the NYC Historical Society which dealt with the 1913 Armory Show--the 2 major groups involved in promoting art back then fought the way we opera lovers battle over traditional vs. modern in this forum!

There was a superb exhibit at the Museum of Natural History with live frogs--they really did a great job with the exhibit! Regards, Len

[barney]

Thinking of you all, as I prepare a coffee and head into the flourishing garden for breakfast. Today will be a very pleasant 25C (77 to you imperial antediluvians).

Although I wish the US would adopt the metric system and the Celsius scale, or at least teach it as a matter of "bilingualism" from early childhood education, it is a mistake to think that Celsius is inherently more rational than Fahrenheit. There can be nothing more arbitrary than designating the degrees of the freezing point and the boiling point of water at standard temperature and pressure (itself an arbitrary measure) as 0 and 100 respectively, however much that looks neater than 32 and 212. In fact, there is no scientific basis for deciding the size of a degree difference in temperature, though there is one for setting the zero point (absolute zero, as in the Kelvin scale, which uses the Celsius degree).

It's an interesting exercise with brighter students to derive with them the conversion formulas between Fahrenheit and Celsius.

Yes, I entirely accept that your system is as "rational" as mine. After all it works both as a measure and a comparison. I grew up with imperial, being a very similar age to yourself, but in the Antipodes we changed in the 60s to metric, and I remain comfortable with both. In New Zealand we adopted decimal currency (dollars and cents from pounds shillings and pence) on July 10 1967, just before I turned 12. I still remember the advertising jingle.

I only said that as a wind-up, because the US is standing nearly alone against most of the world in this matter.