Beautiful But Beware

Locked
Richard
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:04 pm

Beautiful But Beware

Post by Richard » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:03 pm

No.......I'm not referring to Paris Hilton.

I am sure a few of the CMG members might be traveling to some of our various National Parks, either this summer or in future summers. I lived for a couple of years near Glacier National Park..it has always been my favorite, and know you would enjoy this tremendously beautiful park if you ever get a chance to visit.
I also have noted an increasing incidence of Grizzly Bear attacks at Glacier and Waterton Park..just one recently. This link gives you some pracitical suggestions on how to avoid an attack:

http://www.americanparknetwork.com/park ... artip.html

What to do if you encounter a Grizzly depends on what school of thought you lock onto..and the school of thought seems to change every other week. I believe the latest is to make noise and be somewhat aggressive if you encounter a Grizzly. I always thought a good idea might be to bring along a portable boom-box and play some hip-hop music..which I'm sure would scare them away. *

*and if hip-hop music doesn't work, try a little Arnold Schonberg.

BWV 1080
Posts: 4451
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:05 pm

Post by BWV 1080 » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:17 pm

Just remember you do not have to outrun the bear - you just have to outrun your companion.

Reminds me of a pack trip in Montana when I was in high school. A couple of us thought it would be great fun to muck around in the woods making bear noises by where the girls were sleeping. We did this for about 15-20 minutes or so with no reaction so we went back to our area to sleep - it later turned out they had heard us but were all silently playing dead in their sleeping bags & were up half the night terrified they were going to be eaten.

Brendan

Post by Brendan » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:21 pm

Maybe it's just me, and we have no Grizzlies down under, but I would think playing hip-hop would send the beast into a killing frenzy. There are no words adequate to describe a reaction to Schonberg. :wink:

Ralph
Dittersdorf Specialist & CMG NY Host
Posts: 20996
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Paradise on Earth, New York, NY

Post by Ralph » Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:37 am

I've had a black bear in my Westchester County house backyard and in New Jersey bear incursions have become routine.

Next week we're seeing the documentary on (and partially by via his estate's videotapes) Timothy Treadwell. the guy who lived for a decade among grizzlies and eventually was eaten by one along with his girlfriend who was dessert for the bear.
Image

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein

Richard
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:04 pm

Post by Richard » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:43 pm

I didn't even know there were bears in New Jersey, Ralph. Too bad about that fellow Treadwell, but maybe if you live around grizzlies that long you can expect to be eaten.
Here is Northern Calif. we are having a problem with mountain lions. It used to be rare to even see a mountain lion, but not any more. I walk by a little creek, on morning walks, which is about 3 blocks from my house. I saw a sign on a fence, by the creek, the other day warning of a recent mountain lion sighting. I don't live in a rural area..all residential. I don't know why mountain lions have become so brazen. Maybe the recent forest and grass fires, in the foothills, have taken them from their normal habitat down into the populace.

Corlyss_D
Site Administrator
Posts: 27663
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:25 am
Location: The Great State of Utah
Contact:

Re: Beautiful But Beware

Post by Corlyss_D » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:58 pm

Richard wrote:I lived for a couple of years near Glacier National Park..it has always been my favorite, and know you would enjoy this tremendously beautiful park if you ever get a chance to visit.
Oooooooooooo. Lucky you. I was there in Feb 2003, but the park was accessible only by snowshoe. Look at this body, Richard. This body don't snowshoe for nobody nohow. As it turned out, the guide got lost and damn near killed his charges, running them around in the park for an extra hour and just got them out before dark fell. I plan to go back with a car one of these days and look at the park in a sensible way. Can you recommend a time or two when the park is pretty deserted but not snow-bound?
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

Ralph
Dittersdorf Specialist & CMG NY Host
Posts: 20996
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Paradise on Earth, New York, NY

Post by Ralph » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:36 pm

Richard wrote:I didn't even know there were bears in New Jersey, Ralph. Too bad about that fellow Treadwell, but maybe if you live around grizzlies that long you can expect to be eaten.
Here is Northern Calif. we are having a problem with mountain lions. It used to be rare to even see a mountain lion, but not any more. I walk by a little creek, on morning walks, which is about 3 blocks from my house. I saw a sign on a fence, by the creek, the other day warning of a recent mountain lion sighting. I don't live in a rural area..all residential. I don't know why mountain lions have become so brazen. Maybe the recent forest and grass fires, in the foothills, have taken them from their normal habitat down into the populace.
*****

Bears have become a big N.J. issue and just today or yesterday a culling hunt was finally authorized. It's also become common for bears to come down to Westchester County from upstate New York. They've been found within fifteen miles or less of the New York City line. They're invariably young males seeking mates.

My house is about 15 minutes from Harriman State Park where there are bears most of the time.

Where my house is it's very dangerous to allow cats out because coyotes are back in fair numbers and they hunt house cats.
Image

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein

Ted

Post by Ted » Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:04 pm

[img][img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/ ... earjpg.jpg[/img][/img]


[img][img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/ ... Screen.jpg[/img][/img]

Obviously since our house in the Catskills is literally in the middle of the woods, Black Bears (Not Grizzlies of course) go with the territory.
I have had numerous encounters with Moms and their cubs, as well Males including one charging 350 lb male (he wasn’t running at me, just by me)
The bear in the tree was up about 55 feet eating cherries with her three cubs. The tree is less than 20 feet from the front deck
Last summer I was about to walk down the stairs of my deck and there was a different Mom and her cubs.
I do not hang my bird feeders (even as high as 30 feet) in the summer anymore as the bears will climb up the trees and knock down the branch the feeder is hanging from…That’s okay, the birds have plenty to eat in the summer and the bears are sleeping in the winter when the feeders are up.
There’s a lot of info on encountering bears (I recommend reading Alaska’s State Info)
At least in my neck of the woods people are savvy and don’t feed or create inviting environments—the bears are also savvy and will go out of their way to avoid human contact—but both people and bears need to maintain a healthy fear of each other….I have always found the Bears to be more fearful of me than I of them
One very important thing: Do not EVER try to climb a tree to escape a Bear…I have seen full grown bears run 40 feet up a pine tree in a few strides…they are incredibly fast and powerful

Ralph
Dittersdorf Specialist & CMG NY Host
Posts: 20996
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Paradise on Earth, New York, NY

Post by Ralph » Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:11 pm

Great photos, Ted!
Image

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein

Ted

Post by Ted » Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:41 pm

[img][img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/ ... ckLawn.jpg[/img][/img]

Thanks Ralph
I have so many different animal shots.
Actually, of all the animals I have seen, the most spectacular was a Coyote that pranced up our road. It was just so wild and magnificent.
I’ll gather some more creature shots
This one however (and all like it are my faves) The reason: That lawn you see was scratched out of the forest floor by Beth and myself—Tons of rock had to be dug out and removed, replaced by tons of topsoil. A labor of love if there ever was one
Oh, huge Pines had to be felled and chipped first—not by me but by a professional treeman

Brendan

Post by Brendan » Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:46 pm

Wonderful photos, making me green with envy. In Oz our deadly wildlife is sneaky and poisonous - taking a photo of my local wilderness and saying there's snakes in there don't cut it.

If you're going to get taken out by a dumb animal, make a fight of it even if you do get ripped to shreds - not clutch your ankle, keel over and puke yourself into the next world due to a snake you never saw.

Ted

Post by Ted » Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:52 pm

not clutch your ankle, keel over and puke yourself into the next world due to a snake you never saw.
I get your drift Brendan.
But I would love to see some pictures of your habitat
Any chance?

Brendan

Post by Brendan » Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:30 pm

My dad is the photography nut in the family - but that means he's given me a previous model digital camera so I've no excuse! I'll get some photo's he's taken of the kangaroos that live across the road (in a park, not a house). But with spring in the air, some shot sof the bird-life may soon be possible. At the moment, it's all winter-dead.

Ralph
Dittersdorf Specialist & CMG NY Host
Posts: 20996
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Paradise on Earth, New York, NY

Post by Ralph » Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:46 am

Brendan wrote:My dad is the photography nut in the family - but that means he's given me a previous model digital camera so I've no excuse! I'll get some photo's he's taken of the kangaroos that live across the road (in a park, not a house). But with spring in the air, some shot sof the bird-life may soon be possible. At the moment, it's all winter-dead.
*****

Kangaroo photos, YES!!!!!!!!!!!
Image

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein

jbuck919
Military Band Specialist
Posts: 26850
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Stony Creek, New York

Post by jbuck919 » Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:58 am

Ted wrote:Obviously since our house in the Catskills is literally in the middle of the woods, Black Bears (Not Grizzlies of course) go with the territory.
In Stony Creek, New York (my permanent stateside home), I'll see your black bears and coyotes (literally) and raise you a gray wolf (I hope not literally). In the neighboring town of Day several years ago a pure gray wolf was shot (this was confirmed by DNA). And we're in the civilized part of the Adirondack Park, near Lake George (where they sometimes have to trap lynx that wander down the main street and remove them to the wilderness areas). Nobody knows what a solitary wolf was doing down this far, when they have been extinct below the Canadian border for many decades.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Ralph
Dittersdorf Specialist & CMG NY Host
Posts: 20996
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Paradise on Earth, New York, NY

Post by Ralph » Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:15 am

jbuck919 wrote:
Ted wrote:Obviously since our house in the Catskills is literally in the middle of the woods, Black Bears (Not Grizzlies of course) go with the territory.
In Stony Creek, New York (my permanent stateside home), I'll see your black bears and coyotes (literally) and raise you a gray wolf (I hope not literally). In the neighboring town of Day several years ago a pure gray wolf was shot (this was confirmed by DNA). And we're in the civilized part of the Adirondack Park, near Lake George (where they sometimes have to trap lynx that wander down the main street and remove them to the wilderness areas). Nobody knows what a solitary wolf was doing down this far, when they have been extinct below the Canadian border for many decades.

*****

Isn't there a project to reintroduce wolves to upstate New York?
Image

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein

Ralph
Dittersdorf Specialist & CMG NY Host
Posts: 20996
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Paradise on Earth, New York, NY

Post by Ralph » Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:21 am

From The New York Times:

August 10, 2005
As Bear Complaints Rise, New Jersey Considers a Hunt
By JOHN HOLL

ROBBINSVILLE, N.J., Aug. 9 - With complaints about nuisance bears up significantly this year, New Jersey's Fish and Game Council voted unanimously on Tuesday to recommend that the state hold a bear hunt in December.

State biologists estimate that as many as 3,400 bears now roam New Jersey, the nation's most densely populated state, and say a hunt is the most effective way to control the increasingly troublesome population. Two bears were killed last weekend in Sussex County in northwest New Jersey after one broke into a house and another broke into a shed.

"We are going to have a large population of bears way into the future. It's a prolific problem," said Martin J. McHugh, the director of the state's Division of Fish and Wildlife. "Our aim is to reduce the growth of the population."

But a hunt is likely to provoke controversy, as it did two years ago in the first hunt in New Jersey in 33 years. Animal welfare groups tried unsuccessfully in the courts to block the hunt and then held protests as hunters went into the woods.

The decision to hold a hunt is now up to Bradley M. Campbell, the commissioner of the state's Department of Environmental Protection, which includes the Fish and Game Council. Mr. Campbell blocked a hunt last year, though the council recommended one. But he said Tuesday that he probably would approve a hunt if he finds a plan proposed by the council to manage the bear population acceptable.

Last year, several hunting groups sued the state, contending that Mr. Campbell had overstepped his authority by blocking the hunt. Mr. Campbell said then that a hunt was unnecessary and that the agency would rely on public awareness campaigns and contraceptive programs to control the bear population.

The State Supreme Court sided with Mr. Campbell and said a hunt could not be held until the state adopted a comprehensive plan to manage its bears. Mr. Campbell said such a plan was under review and would be released for public comment next month.

"We will only proceed with a hunt after the public process is complete," Mr. Campbell said.

From Jan. 1 to July 8 this year there were 677 damage and nuisance complaints involving black bears in 17 of the state's 21 counties. During the same period last year there were 424 complaints, according to the state.

"The bear population has clearly escalated," said Ernest Hahn, the chairman of the Fish and Game Council. "Bears, quite frankly, are causing a number of interactions that are not desirable."

Last month, a female black bear wandered into a campsite in High Point State Park and tugged at a sleeping bag with a camper inside. It was later captured and killed.

Of the two bears killed by state fish and game employees last weekend, one, a sow without cubs, broke through a window of an enclosed porch in Hardyston Township twice in one night. Another sow, also without cubs, broke into a shed at a camp in Frankford, N.J. No injuries were reported, but officials concluded the bears were hazards. The bears were trapped and then euthanized.

So far this year nine bears have been euthanized. Eleven were euthanized in 2004, according to the state.

Mr. Campbell said the department was still pursuing other bear management strategies like contraception. A separate plan calls for trapping and removing bears found in " a nonsuitable habitat, not appropriate for any wild animal population."

Hunting groups applauded the move by the council, but there were also critics.

"I think there is too much knee-jerk reaction and not enough real work on what has to get done," said Jeff Tittle, the executive director of the New Jersey chapter of the Sierra Club, which opposes the hunt. "The state is just not doing enough. There needs to be better plans in place."

In 2003, 328 bears were killed during the hunt. In 2004, when Mr. Campbell called a second hunt unnecessary, he contended the bear population was about 1,600, though several independent studies estimated that the number was closer to 3,200.

This year state biologists say that of the estimated 3,400 bears in the state, roughly 1,600 are within the proposed hunt area, a 580-square-mile area in the northwest part of the state, north of Route 78 and west of Route 287. If approved by Mr. Campbell, the hunt would be Dec. 5 through Dec. 11.
Image

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein

Ted

Post by Ted » Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:29 am

and raise you a gray wolf
John
I’ve read about Grey Wolves in the Adirondacks...But never in Catskill Park….I’m not sure it would be a terrific idea to re-wolf any part of NY State. I forgot to mention that I saw a huge breed of cat in Greene County—about 17 miles Northwest of my (Ulster) County



THE SUNDAY LEADER-HERALD, MAY 23, 2004
Adirondack wolf spawns many theories

EDINBURG (AP) - The night Russ Lawrence shot dead the first confirmed Adirondack wolf in a century, the big canine wasn't alone. It came for the hunter's bait, on a winter night, with another animal.

“It wasn't as big, but it was a pretty good size,” Lawrence said. “That's why I figured it was a female.”

Lawrence also figured he'd killed a record-sized coyote that January night in 2002, and he contacted state conservation officials. It was a healthy 85-pound male, more than twice the average coyote size, but with the same features and color as its common relative.

Two years later, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service took tissue for genetic analysis and concluded it was pure gray wolf. That quickly raised questions: Had a loner wan-
dered down from the upper Midwest or Canada? Did humans release it? Was the lab report inaccurate?

And the big one: Had timber wolves already come back?

Wildlife biologists and advocates agree they haven't, that populations would be noticed, like in the West and upper Midwest. Wolves tend to live in small packs, move around, vocalize frequently and hunt.

But the kill has touched off a new round of debate over whether to bring the wolf back to New York.

A century after the last known New York wolf was killed in the 1890s, wildlife advocates ignited a major controversy when they proposed reintroducing them to the Adirondacks. The proposal stalled, and scientists say New York remains coyote country.

“If they're filling essentially the same niche, does it make a difference whether we call it a coyote or a wolf?” said Al Hicks, wildlife biologist for the state Department of Environmental Conservation. “I guess it's whatever makes you feel better.”

Feared as threats to livestock and people, wolves were hunted nearly to extinction by the 1930s in the continental United States.

Last August, after their cultivated resurgence in the West and Midwest, the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service moved the gray wolf from endangered to threatened after 30 years.

There are now almost 4,000 gray wolves and about 250 red wolves in the lower 48 states. Alaska, where hunting continues, has an estimated 6,000 to 8,000 gray wolves.

Killing them still can bring a fine up to $100,000 per individual, $200,000 per organization, plus forfeit of the animal and even hunting equipment.

Lawrence won't be prosecuted, said Diana Weaver, spokeswoman for the wildlife service.

“At times the goal of enforcement is not so much punishment but education and compliance,”

jbuck919
Military Band Specialist
Posts: 26850
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Stony Creek, New York

Post by jbuck919 » Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:09 am

Ralph wrote:
jbuck919 wrote:
Ted wrote:Obviously since our house in the Catskills is literally in the middle of the woods, Black Bears (Not Grizzlies of course) go with the territory.
In Stony Creek, New York (my permanent stateside home), I'll see your black bears and coyotes (literally) and raise you a gray wolf (I hope not literally). In the neighboring town of Day several years ago a pure gray wolf was shot (this was confirmed by DNA). And we're in the civilized part of the Adirondack Park, near Lake George (where they sometimes have to trap lynx that wander down the main street and remove them to the wilderness areas). Nobody knows what a solitary wolf was doing down this far, when they have been extinct below the Canadian border for many decades.

*****

Isn't there a project to reintroduce wolves to upstate New York?
I didn't mention that because it raises the issue of why they were exterminated in the first place, and it has never been clear to me how to distribute the "blame" among the rational fear that wolves destroy livestock (no longer relevant in the Adirondack Park where farms were purposefully eliminated), the apparently irrational fear that they kill people (no incidents on record), or the rational/irrational fear that they just might some day, especially,say, small children camping (when you consider what ordinary dogs do...).

Anyway, there has been a movement to reintroduce them, and though part of the reason is the good one that they are needed as predators, I have actually heard the serious argument that they would enhance tourism because people might find hearing wolves howling at night an attraction!

I have to agree with Ted that re-wolving is probably not a good idea, and it has no support among the people who actually live here, who still have a healthy fear of wild animals and usually aim their shotguns at same and not each other. I am afraid we are stuck with human culling of the deer population; it is not after all such a great evil, especially if you enjoy venison.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Ted

Post by Ted » Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:00 am

I am afraid we are stuck with human culling of the deer population; it is not after all such a great evil, especially if you enjoy venison.
Indeed John
In fact we have a huge deer population (my wife takes pictures of doe, fawn, buck on a weekly basis. (Notice the horns sprouting on the young buck-taken two weeks ago)
Fortunately, she finally stumbled upon a deer-proofing method to protect her flowers and most of all our tomato garden from deer, rabbits etc: Fine, plastic-mesh fencing (you can see it at bottom of picture)

[img][img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/ ... ckfawn.jpg[/img][/img]

Corlyss_D
Site Administrator
Posts: 27663
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:25 am
Location: The Great State of Utah
Contact:

Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:15 am

Ted's Lawn Mowing Service.

Beautiful shot, Ted.
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

Ted

Post by Ted » Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:19 am

Ted's Lawn Mowing Service.
Oh Deer Me CD
How clever!

Corlyss_D
Site Administrator
Posts: 27663
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:25 am
Location: The Great State of Utah
Contact:

Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:40 am

Ted wrote:
Ted's Lawn Mowing Service.
Oh Deer Me CD
How clever!
:lol: Say, is that a rose in the bucket? Its a beautiful shade. Do you know the name?
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

Ralph
Dittersdorf Specialist & CMG NY Host
Posts: 20996
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Paradise on Earth, New York, NY

Post by Ralph » Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:56 am

Corlyss_D wrote:
Ted wrote:
Ted's Lawn Mowing Service.
Oh Deer Me CD
How clever!
:lol: Say, is that a rose in the bucket? Its a beautiful shade. Do you know the name?
*****

Ted showed me that photo at lunch and mentioned that the rose's name is Irving.
Image

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein

Ted

Post by Ted » Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:04 am

is that a rose in the bucket?
Dear Liza, Dear Liza

To me CD a Rose is a Rose is a Rose
I'll ask Beth

Corlyss_D
Site Administrator
Posts: 27663
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:25 am
Location: The Great State of Utah
Contact:

Post by Corlyss_D » Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:44 pm

Ralph wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote: Say, is that a rose in the bucket? Its a beautiful shade. Do you know the name?
*****

Ted showed me that photo at lunch and mentioned that the rose's name is Irving.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Ralph wins the Post of the Day award!
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

Richard
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:04 pm

Post by Richard » Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:31 pm

Ted: I will have to go home and look at your pictures. I get on the CMG forum, most all the time, at work. For some reason, the computers at work won't let me open up your pictures.

Corlyss: You ask a difficult question (when is Glacier Park kind of deserted but no snowfall). The park is almost never really deserted when there is no snow on the ground, but I would say the first half of Sept may come close..as many vacationers have left by then. When I lived near there, it did snow in late Sept, as least one time. It can also snow in early June. It was kind of funny, but folks would put up tents, in campgrounds, in early June, and have a snowstorm cave in their tents overnight.
We used to say Glacier Park has 2 seasons, Winter and August. Seriously, late June through the 1st half of Sept should be ok. for good weather.

Ralph
Dittersdorf Specialist & CMG NY Host
Posts: 20996
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Paradise on Earth, New York, NY

Post by Ralph » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:12 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote: Say, is that a rose in the bucket? Its a beautiful shade. Do you know the name?
*****

Ted showed me that photo at lunch and mentioned that the rose's name is Irving.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Ralph wins the Post of the Day award!
*****

Oh thanks! I feel so, so so, VALIDATED!!!!!!!!! :)
Image

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests