New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

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Rach3
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New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by Rach3 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:03 am

Not my cup of tea, but assume would be for many here, Peter Mattei,baritone,Lars David Nilsson, pianist,BIS SACD ,complete cd here to listen free for awhile:

https://www.nporadio4.nl/cds/peter-matt ... interreise

maestrob
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by maestrob » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:53 am

Rach3 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:03 am
Not my cup of tea, but assume would be for many here, Peter Mattei,baritone,Lars David Nilsson, pianist,BIS SACD ,complete cd here to listen free for awhile:

https://www.nporadio4.nl/cds/peter-matt ... interreise
Thanks Rach3 for this. It's on my playlist for this week.

Lance
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by Lance » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:31 pm

I just counted up how many Schubert Winterreises I have on CD (does not include any LP performances of which there are also many), and the count is 48. Isn't that completely ridiculous?!? Some artists have recorded it several times, or live and studio performances as well. I think it is about enough for me! Appreciate the tip, however! Bear in mind this goes back to the start of CD releases to present times so it has taken many years to amass that many.
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John F
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by John F » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:56 pm

I've liked Peter Mattei's singing since I saw him in Peter Brook's production of "Don Giovanni," but I don't think he has what it takes for "Winterreise." Some of the singing is too hushed, some of it is forced. He might well sing a good "Schöne Müllerin," but not "Winterreise."
John Francis

Belle
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by Belle » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:13 am

Lance wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:31 pm
I just counted up how many Schubert Winterreises I have on CD (does not include any LP performances of which there are also many), and the count is 48. Isn't that completely ridiculous?!? Some artists have recorded it several times, or live and studio performances as well. I think it is about enough for me! Appreciate the tip, however! Bear in mind this goes back to the start of CD releases to present times so it has taken many years to amass that many.
I'm now going to ask you which is your preferred version!! There is no escape, Lance.

John F
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by John F » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:31 am

You didn't ask me, but mine is the EMI recording by Hans Hotter and Gerald Moore.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nIcu2YCUzA

A special one is the live performance in Berlin's Philharmonie by Thomas Quasthoff and Daniel Barenboim. Friends and I were lucky enough to attend it.
John Francis

Belle
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by Belle » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:29 pm

I only asked Lance because of the sheer number of recordings he has of it!! (Thomas Quasthoff - wunderbah!!)

Gerald Moore really was an exceptional artist; he just understood Schubert as few accompanists have. But I wonder about the newer generation of accompanists, as they seem to have been overshadowed by Moore.

The Hans Hotter is terribly moving, isn't it.

John F
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by John F » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:06 pm

One thing about Gerald Moore's playing that others didn't have was that he went beyond the purely musical element in his part to bring out its meaning. As he says in "The Unashamed Accompanist," "The composer of a great song uses the piano part to paint pictures. He uses the piano part to evoke a mood. And he sometimes makes the piano part reflect the very words that the singer is uttering." For this he must understand and respond vividly to the meaning of the poem, not just in general but word by word. Any number of celebrity pianists can play song accompaniments more brilliantly than Gerald Moore, though his fingers were certainly nimble enough, but few can communicate a song as well.

When in college I picked up Gerald Moore's EMI recording "The Unashamed Accompanist," a lively and enlightening illustrated lecture by the end of which my notion of what an art song is and how it needs to be performed was quite transformed. If you\re interested, here it is:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia7iOdRe9nk
John Francis

Belle
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by Belle » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:04 pm

Thanks so much; I'll certainly give it my attention.

Right now I'm programming my last Semester (1, 2020) as Co-ordinator for our music group and I've just had a submission to examine the Bach St. Matthew Passion - from a choirmaster/musician/musicological perspective - over 2 sessions. Here we have a young man of about 38, who is a church organist and choir-master in the Anglican cathedral who is eager to talk to our group about the thing he loves!! He has played in Notre Dame and many English cathedrals and recorded two solo organ CDs.

Lance
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by Lance » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:32 pm

I must concur with John Francis, the 1954 EMI recording with Hotter/Moore is among the best. He also recorded it for DGG later. There is still another recording with Hotter made in the early 1940s with Michael Raucheisen, another superb piano collaborator on deleted LYS [361-363]. For me, Gerald Moore remains the king of accompanists when collaborating with singers. There's a reason everyone wanted to work with him. He had a piano touch that was ravishing, and certainly didn't lack in technique even in the most difficult music, but more so, a complete understanding of the music and texts. Other accompanists I favor include Hubert Giesen, Erik Werba, Karl Engel, Geoffrey Parsons, Irwin Gage, Dalton Baldwin, and Benjamin Britten (at times). Today, we have Graham Johnson, Warren Jones, Roger Vignoles and others who seem to be the specially gifted piano collaborators.
Belle wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:13 am
Lance wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:31 pm
I just counted up how many Schubert Winterreises I have on CD (does not include any LP performances of which there are also many), and the count is 48. Isn't that completely ridiculous?!? Some artists have recorded it several times, or live and studio performances as well. I think it is about enough for me! Appreciate the tip, however! Bear in mind this goes back to the start of CD releases to present times so it has taken many years to amass that many.
I'm now going to ask you which is your preferred version!! There is no escape, Lance.
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

John F
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by John F » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:46 pm

In all, I believe Hotter made six recordings of "Winterreise." Not all were well advised; his last, recorded in Japan by CBS with Hans Dokupil, was just too late. But they show how closely Hotter identified with the cycle, which he performed in public more than 100 times.

Most of the other accompanists Lance names are certainly worthy partners but, to my ears, have nothing special to offer. The exception is Benjamin Britten,who has unique and relevant ideas; for example, when the last verse of "Gute Nacht" turns to the major, he and Pears give it pianissimo. If only Pears's voice were more attractive.
John Francis

Lance
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by Lance » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:38 pm

Yes, I have the Hotter/Dokupil as well, but it didn't rank that high with me either. And I completely concur with your remark about the voice of Peter Pears. I never really enjoyed hearing his voice. Others may, however. Decca issued a six-CD tribute set to Pears [478 2345] that contains many of his recordings and in it, Gerald Moore and Britten can both be found as collaborators.
John F wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:46 pm
In all, I believe Hotter made six recordings of "Winterreise." Not all were well advised; his last, recorded in Japan by CBS with Hans Dokupil, was just too late. But they show how closely Hotter identified with the cycle, which he performed in public more than 100 times.

Most of the other accompanists Lance names are certainly worthy partners but, to my ears, have nothing special to offer. The exception is Benjamin Britten,who has unique and relevant ideas; for example, when the last verse of "Gute Nacht" turns to the major, he and Pears give it pianissimo. If only Pears's voice were more attractive.
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

Len_Z
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by Len_Z » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:47 pm

This year, we seem to have an avalanche of 'Die Winterreise' recordings. On top of the above-mentioned Mattei, Ian Bostridge has just released a new version with Ades. There's also another tenor rendition by Breslik, a countertenor one by Xavier Sabata, a mezzo one by Britta Schwartz. In New York 'Die Winterreise' is going to be performed live by Mattei, DiDonato, and Eric Owens.

I honestly can't recall such an abundance of one of my favorite works of art ever. Is there some kind of an anniversary coming?

barney
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by barney » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:59 pm

I second the Hotter/Moore and Hotter/Werba choices. I also like the Fischer-Dieskau with Moore. Matthias Goerne is a fine singer, with both Graham Johnson in the fabulous Hyperion series of complete Schubert lieder and later with Alfred Brendel. My collection of 20 just went up by two with a twin account by young Australian baritone Nathan Lay (extremely promising) in German and in a new English translation by Brian Chapman, who is the pianist (but definitely no Moore). What do people think of Jon Vickers or the Schreier/Richter pairing? Or Josef Greindl with Hertha Klust?

barney
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by barney » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:03 pm

Len_Z wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:47 pm
In New York 'Die Winterreise' is going to be performed live by Mattei, DiDonato, and Eric Owens.

What, as a trio? Dividing the songs between them? I don't mind Winterreise sung by a woman, and have Christa Ludwig's account for example. But I don't like the idea of dividing the songs because I think they need a unity of interpretation - it is a single person's journey.

Len_Z
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by Len_Z » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:54 am

barney wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:03 pm
Len_Z wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:47 pm
In New York 'Die Winterreise' is going to be performed live by Mattei, DiDonato, and Eric Owens.

What, as a trio? Dividing the songs between them? I don't mind Winterreise sung by a woman, and have Christa Ludwig's account for example. But I don't like the idea of dividing the songs because I think they need a unity of interpretation - it is a single person's journey.
No, of course, not. Three different performances with about a month separating them from each other

John F
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by John F » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:36 am

I do mind "Winterreise" sung by a woman, even as communicative an artist as Lotte Lehmann. The story is about leaving a girl who is marrying for money, and makes no sense if the traveler is also a woman, implying some kind of lesbian relationship.
John Francis

Belle
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by Belle » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:50 am

John F wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:36 am
I do mind "Winterreise" sung by a woman, even as communicative an artist as Lotte Lehmann. The story is about leaving a girl who is marrying for money, and makes no sense if the traveler is also a woman, implying some kind of lesbian relationship.
I must say I have to agree with this.

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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by Lance » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:05 pm

Yes - that thought crossed my mind as well. Very daring of Lehmann at that point in time! I was trying to think of other works that might have that same tag.
Belle wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:50 am
John F wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:36 am
I do mind "Winterreise" sung by a woman, even as communicative an artist as Lotte Lehmann. The story is about leaving a girl who is marrying for money, and makes no sense if the traveler is also a woman, implying some kind of lesbian relationship.
I must say I have to agree with this.
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

John F
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by John F » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:48 pm

Lotte Lehmann sang many songs whose protagonist is clearly male, even Schumann's "Dichterliebe." She was certainly not a "butch" singer, few sopranos were more feminine, and wasn't making some kind of unisex point about the songs, she just thought they were great songs, and of course they were. I'm sure there are many to whom this doesn't matter, and were at the time she was singing and recording the songs. But it rubs me the wrong way.
John Francis

barney
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Re: New Schubert "Winterreise" cd

Post by barney » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:28 pm

No, it's not my choice. The Ludwig for me is a bit of a curiosity. But even so, I don't mind artists trying different things, as long as it is done with integrity rather than a mere desire to shock, as in regiestheater. It's always open to me not to go or not to listen.

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