What do you think of "completists"?

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, Gurn---it's not unusual here that "in-between" questions or comments crop up on any thread. I assure you, we haven't lost track of the original theme---I was just responding to a question.

No harm done.

Tschüß,
Jack

And certainly nothing personal directed at anyone. It's just that when trying to read the thread, it is, like, every other post there is someone responding to the original point and then the new one. Kinda funny, really....



PS - IN order to curry favor with you, and lend some validity to JB's assertion at the same time, I would just like to mention here that I am incredibly partial to Schumann, particularly his chamber music.

[walboi]

In the olden days I was very much a completist hunter, but nowadays with more than 6000 cd's and counting, the need has somewhat subsided!

[slofstra]

Okay, now there are three threads, Completism, American music, and why there are two (now three) threads.
On completism. If you think YOU aspire to completism, you are no match for this fellow, whose web site I stumbled on some years ago:

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse ... eeded.html

He owns 154 versions of Rachmaninov's 3rd piano concerto. There's a link to reviews of many of them.

Here's a bar graph of his CD purchase activity:

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse ... stics.html

Photos of his collection - you have to see this to believe it:
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse ... y_cds.html

And for the ultimate completist in collecting CDs, he has a few suggestions. Here is a quote from the site:

If you are even crazier than I am, you can also try a few more approaches, including buying at least one CD of each label, buying all CDs of a particular label, and buying all versions of a particular piece (I am actually doing that for Rachmaninoff's 3rd Piano Concerto and all recorded sets of Beethoven's piano sonatas.[Elsewhere, he indicates he has 40 sets!! -- slofstra]). A more advanced collector might try something even more absurd, like buying 500 copies of the same CD and covering the walls of his/her study room with these CDs, i.e. using the CDs like a wallpaper. Buying all CDs with catalog numbers that end with the digit "3" is another approach. Buying all CDs with attractive women on the cover is something I have been doing. The most advanced collector will just go ahead and buy one or more copies of each CD ever released, including out-of-print ones. This is VERY difficult.

One copy of every CD ever released; there's aspiration for you!

Now, I tend to keep my compulsion for collecting things in check, and also a little close to my chest. (i.e. I have 10 complete sets of Jello airplane wheels - a long story). You have to admire this fellow's unabashed enthusiasm for buying CDs which is probably bordering on compulsive.

[piston]

Good! I feel much better now. That's far more obsessive than I'll ever get. I see that this person's addiction really got out of hand in 1999, when he or she should have sought professional help. You know, it can get almost as bad on family and friends than a crack addiction (I can only suspect). By the way, I don't understand how the American composer thread is relevant here

[slofstra]

Yes. Did you notice how they insinuated their thread into your topic, and then asked you to leave? How typically American!

[piston]

I follow your point now. I think it's a fairly common practice everywhere. I came to CMGF after spending some time in other virtual communities, across the Atlantic and this, here, is a friendly place. I'm sure Canadian classical music forums are relatively friendly too. Anyway, I recommend CMG to you or any other Canadian.
best regards

[slofstra]

I better clarify that I'm kidding. Kind of kidding. No malice intended anyway. We Canadians often feel like the proverbial mouse sleeping next to an elephant. And speaking of American composers, how many Canadian composers do you know of?

[piston]

I better clarify that I'm kidding. Kind of kidding. No malice intended anyway. We Canadians often feel like the proverbial mouse sleeping next to an elephant. And speaking of American composers, how many Canadian composers do you know of?

The Encyclopedia of Canadian Music offers 540 pages of biographical entries devoted to Canadian composers. Unfortunately, very few among them can be said to have achieved the kind of stature one acknowledges for a Aaron Copland, in the USA, a Heitor Villa-Lobos, in Brazil, a Alberto Ginastera, in Argentina, or a Silvestre Revueltas, in Mexico. In my humble opinion, Canadian composers came in too late on the classical music scene, partly because it took so long to develop good music schools like Vincent d'Indy in Montreal. Now there exists an abundance of contemporary composers but, like every where else in the world, they do not find much of an audience. Around two percent of the whole population listens to classical music on a regular basis and, of these two percent, perhaps .02 percent listen to contemporary music regularly.

Unfortunately for Canadians, the most popular classical music eras, like the romantic or late romantic did not witness many outstanding Canadian composers, if any.

Does anybody in Canada really listen to Claude Champagne, Pierre Mercure, Barbara Pentland, François Hétu...?

[Lance]

I better clarify that I'm kidding. Kind of kidding. No malice intended anyway. We Canadians often feel like the proverbial mouse sleeping next to an elephant. And speaking of American composers, how many Canadian composers do you know of?

Thank you, Slofstra, for the clarification because I have a special affection for Canada and its people, the great musicians they have given the world and their quiet genius in so many areas. I have also found that it was a great place to buy LPs during the heyday of that period with Sam the Record Man, A&A, and a few other places that were great to shop. (It still is a great place to buy CDs, too!) I also prefer Canadian radio (CBC, despite its apparent most recent problems), and I think classical music is given to the young people in a more inspiring manner so that these young people can take it through their lives. I've always felt Canadians have gotten the short end of the stick from the American government as well, alluding to their contributions to World War II, particularly. (I see that changing more these days; Canada now gets more recognition. After all their boys died too.) But enough on this or someone will kick me over to the Corner Pub, and heaven knows, I don't go there (too much)!

[jbuck919]

Does anybody in Canada really listen to Claude Champagne, Pierre Mercure, Barbara Pentland, François Hétu...?

I remember a childhood encyclopedia article that mentioned only the composer of "O Canada" as an important Canadian composer. However, mon vieux, though I have not heard any of the composers on your list, I would not make a presumptive dismissal based on the other Western Hemisphere composers you mention. You should consider it a virtue that you don't feel a need to exalt a composer for nationalistic reasons, and this is not just a New World vice, alas.

I mean, Silvestre Revueltas? Who the, er, was he?

[slofstra]

Thanks for the kind words, and I'm also impressed, piston, that someone is paying a little attention to the scene in Canada. Your comeback surprised me; my own knowledge of Canadian compostion is, perhaps shamefully, also very sparse. We do kind of know who our stars are on the performance side and there are many from Jon Vickers to Angela Hewitt to Marc-Andre Hamelin, for starters.
On the composers side, I've enjoyed various Canadian composers in performance, and I must admit, that Canadian compositions played by our symphony orchestra were an obligatory feature of concerts and almost a standing joke for many years. Thankfully, the pieces were generally short, and at the beginning of the performance. But in recent years, the pieces have become much more listenable. (Or has the listener changed?)
A few composers I've enjoyed very much are: Peter Hatch, Glenn Buhr and Alexina Louie.
But here is one to watch, whose star has been rising since our symphony first performed his work as a student composer in the mid 90s: John Estacio. You can hear some samples of his music at http://www.johnestacio.com. He's also written and had produced, a full length opera: http://www.filumena.com

[Lance]

Well, not to mention Maureen Forrester! Certainly one of the great Canadian singers of all time.

As for Canadian composers, I am VERY IMPRESSED with the work of Victor Davies. When I presented a radio broadcast on his music, and featured his "Mennonite Piano Concerto," calls and e-mails abounded! I don't know how this Campion recording could have been withdrawn from the catalogue though it has been available for several years until now.

[piston]

I appreciate these references to Davies and Estacio. We'll keep them in mind. Corlyss also mentioned Colin McPhee, on a previous thread. And I did not mean to be dismissive concerning the names that were mentioned. Pierre Mercure, unfortunately, died prematurely. He was considered a promising Canadian composer. Jacques Hétu, I am told by a knowledgeable Messiaen singer in my neighborhood, is doing some really remarkable work as well.

With respect to Revueltas, mon ami, I view him as a real diamond in the rough. If memory serves me well, Carlos Chavez had issues because Revueltas captured the Mexican spirit and soul in his compositions with greater ease and inspiration than the more "established" and better schooled Chavez. But Revueltas died of alcohol-related pneumonia (he was alcoholic) at a relatively young age and didn't get time to achieve, for Mexico, what Piazzola has achieved for Argentina.

As for great artists, Canada should stand high and tall. I really love Hamelin and he is not the first Canadian to be known internationally.
But we're drifting from the topic of completism, which is probably a good thing, 'cause it leads to, well.... strange bedfellows.

[Lance]

[snipped] But we're drifting from the topic of completism, which is probably a good thing, 'cause it leads to, well.... strange bedfellows.

You sure can say that again!

[jbuck919]

But Revueltas died of alcohol-related pneumonia (he was alcoholic) at a relatively young age and didn't get time to achieve, for Mexico, what Piazzola has achieved for Argentina.

You mean, we will never have the arts-and-crafts version of the Mexican Hat Dance? Never, ever, classical Mariachi?

[slofstra]

I've had a couple of supplementary ideas on the topic of completism; to whit, that maybe we should relax or resist our packrat or collector's impulse at times.
For example, complete boxed sets seem attractive, but my advice to a beginner would be to buy Beethoven's symphonies individually - a Kleiber, a Bernstein, a karajan, etc. Then perhaps later if one wanted purchase a complete set or two. (But the sonatas - get a complete set right away.)
Similarly, I've avoided buying budget boxes of Haydn symphonies or what have you simply because it's more fun to buy one here or there, and one obtains a variety of interpretations.
Another tendency I sometimes resist is to always have to know what I'm listening to, especially in the car. First, it's unsafe to pop the CD or read the jacket while driving, second, a bother. So, I have spent a great deal of time with Brahm's quartets and quintets, but can't tell op. 25 from 110. Does it matter? (Perhaps a little, if I want to obtain multiple renditions of a particular piece).
Complete sets can also be onerous if you feel you must listen to everything you buy. Imagine buying all of Haydn's symphonies and then sitting through all 105. Uggh. (Now there's a recent set of his masses which is an entirely different matter.)
Thoughts?

[Corlyss_D]

(But the sonatas - get a complete set right away.)

Similarly, I've avoided buying budget boxes of Haydn symphonies or what have you simply because it's more fun to buy one here or there, and one obtains a variety of interpretations.

Thoughts?

1) If you know what you want, get it. Sometimes I want to listen to the complete piano works of Debussy, or the complete symphonies of Vaughan Williams, at once.

2) Some sets are must haves, like the Munch Berlioz or the Boult Vaughan Williams.

[slofstra]

[quote=corlyss_d]If you know what you want, get it. [/quote]

That's a pretty good axiom. When it comes to a boxed set, it's going to hold you captive for a while, so that's fine if you're a willing one.

Regarding Vaughan Williams, I've spent quite a lot of time this past year with the Vernon Handley set. Do you think I should get the Boult also? How is the recording quality? Does it contain some of the more obscure gems such as Flos Campi and the Oboe Concerto?

[premont]

Completist or not - I think, it depends upon, why you acquire multiple recordings. F. ex. I own 600+ CDs with pianosonates of LvB, among them 39 complete cycles and several almost complete. But I did not get all these just to own them, but because I am deeply interested in the music, and I listen to some of them regularily. And I find, that every new interpretation widens my horizon in some way.

[slofstra]

premont, since I am also a fan of the Sonatas, and you have 39 complete sets... Could you categorize the various approaches in any kind of way? There are a number of discussions (see Canadian thread) on whose is best, but I wouldn't mind hearing something polar opposite to the ones I like - Arrau and Kuerti. Not Gould though. My point that we get hung up on whose is best, but I'd find it interesting to hear what makes one set or approach different from another.

lance mentions Schnabel and Goode as being very good. Also, I read about a set by Silverman I think, who apparently used a mechanical/ electronic piano that mechanically recorded his playing, then he could change things by the bar if he wished. Sounded interesting.