Ryan Bancroft Becomes Chief Conductor in Stockholm

[Modernistfan]

Ryan Bancroft, a 32-year-old Black conductor originally from Los Angeles, has just been named the chief conductor of the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra, a major post which was, coincidentally, held by Alan Gilbert before he became music director of the New York Philharmonic.

This is great for him but represents a severe indictment of the blinkered attitude of American orchestras. Why are conductors like him or Jonathon Heyward not getting a shot for the music director positions in American orchestras? It seems that we are sliding back to the 1950's when Black conductors such as Dean Dixon had to go to Europe to have any sort of career.

[THEHORN]

I hadn't heard of this conductor before , but apparently he is very gifted, or he would never have been appointed music director of a major orchestra such as the Royal Stockholm Philharmonic .
I'd be curious to hear him conduct .

[Modernistfan]

These orchestras are falling over themselves to demonstrate their commitment to diversity and how "woke" (I hate that term) they are. It is easy to play or even record a few works by William Grant Still or Florence Price (I do intend to get the Philadelphia Orchestra's recording of two of Price's symphonies), but when it comes to giving Black conductors a legitimate shot at the music director position, that is a step too far for these orchestras.

[barney]

These orchestras are falling over themselves to demonstrate their commitment to diversity and how "woke" (I hate that term) they are. It is easy to play or even record a few works by William Grant Still or Florence Price (I do intend to get the Philadelphia Orchestra's recording of two of Price's symphonies), but when it comes to giving Black conductors a legitimate shot at the music director position, that is a step too far for these orchestras.

Which orchestras are "these"? The only one named is the Stockholm, which is clearly not guilty of yourcharge.

[Modernistfan]

I am referring to American orchestras in general and, clearly, not to the European orchestras that have been hiring Black American conductors such as Maestros Bancroft and Heyward. There are a number of American orchestras who are or who will be soon looking for new music directors, including New York, Baltimore, and quite possibly Chicago (how long can they continue with Muti?). I do not get the sense that these Black American conductors are even under consideration for any of these jobs. Part of the problem is the common mindset that any random Assistant Vice-Kapellmeister of the Kleinmachnow Philharmoniker gets precedence over any American conductor.

[barney]

I am referring to American orchestras in general and, clearly, not to the European orchestras that have been hiring Black American conductors such as Maestros Bancroft and Heyward. There are a number of American orchestras who are or who will be soon looking for new music directors, including New York, Baltimore, and quite possibly Chicago (how long can they continue with Muti?). I do not get the sense that these Black American conductors are even under consideration for any of these jobs. Part of the problem is the common mindset that any random Assistant Vice-Kapellmeister of the Kleinmachnow Philharmoniker gets precedence over any American conductor.

Yes, it's bizarre that the US, with its enormous tradition, still seems to feel a sort of cultural cringe. It was the same in Australia - once a musician had made her or his name in Europe, then they were admired here. And the great conductors traditionally were European - Toscanini, Szell, Reiner and the like. But there was Bernstein too. Previn etc.

[Modernistfan]

Previn was born in Germany; the Nazi takeover in Germany forced his family to flee, first to France, and then to the United States. He arrived in the United States at about 9 years of age (he grew up in Beverly Hills near Los Angeles).

[barney]

Previn was born in Germany; the Nazi takeover in Germany forced his family to flee, first to France, and then to the United States. He arrived in the United States at about 9 years of age (he grew up in Beverly Hills near Los Angeles).

I think the US can claim him.

[maestrob]

Previn was born in Germany; the Nazi takeover in Germany forced his family to flee, first to France, and then to the United States. He arrived in the United States at about 9 years of age (he grew up in Beverly Hills near Los Angeles).

I think the US can claim him.

That may be true. Certainly his only opera is based on a Tennessee Williams work, but Previn did speak English with a decidedly British accent and led the London Symphony for decades. Certainly he is not famous for his work at the helm of any American orchestra.

I do take Modernistfan's point here. The only American conductor of the big five when I was growing up was Leonard Bernstein, even though James Levine was at the helm of the MET. What other American-born & trained conductor, let alone woman or Black conductor has ever been more than a niche candidate? Sarah Caldwell had to found her own opera company to be heard, for example, and James DePriest (Oregon) is the only minority conductor who managed to hold on to his post and earn a steady income there. As good as they are, the Oregon Symphony could hardly be called a major ensemble.

In any society, that society can only profit from the contributions of all its citizens if they are permitted to contribute. Europe seems to be far ahead of us right now, still. Simone Young should be under consideration for a major post here certainly by now, but her name just never comes up!

[Rach3]

The live Detroit Symphony concert tonight,Dec.11 may be of interest; see that separate topic here.

[maestrob]

The live Detroit Symphony concert tonight,Dec.11 may be of interest; see that separate topic here.

Thanks, but we had pre-arranged plans for tonight.

[barney]

Previn was born in Germany; the Nazi takeover in Germany forced his family to flee, first to France, and then to the United States. He arrived in the United States at about 9 years of age (he grew up in Beverly Hills near Los Angeles).

I think the US can claim him.

That may be true. Certainly his only opera is based on a Tennessee Williams work, but Previn did speak English with a decidedly British accent and led the London Symphony for decades. Certainly he is not famous for his work at the helm of any American orchestra.

I do take Modernistfan's point here. The only American conductor of the big five when I was growing up was Leonard Bernstein, even though James Levine was at the helm of the MET. What other American-born & trained conductor, let alone woman or Black conductor has ever been more than a niche candidate? Sarah Caldwell had to found her own opera company to be heard, for example, and James DePriest (Oregon) is the only minority conductor who managed to hold on to his post and earn a steady income there. As good as they are, the Oregon Symphony could hardly be called a major ensemble.

In any society, that society can only profit from the contributions of all its citizens if they are permitted to contribute. Europe seems to be far ahead of us right now, still. Simone Young should be under consideration for a major post here certainly by now, but her name just never comes up!

I accept Modernistfan's general point as well. As I said, you still seem to have a cultural cringe in classical music that is absent from nearly every other arena. And that's partly because the great founders of your classical tradition were European. Australia had a worse cultural cringe, but we are moving beyond it slowly.

Wasn't Previn at Pittsburgh for years, or have I muddled that up?

[maestrob]

Previn was born in Germany; the Nazi takeover in Germany forced his family to flee, first to France, and then to the United States. He arrived in the United States at about 9 years of age (he grew up in Beverly Hills near Los Angeles).

I think the US can claim him.

That may be true. Certainly his only opera is based on a Tennessee Williams work, but Previn did speak English with a decidedly British accent and led the London Symphony for decades. Certainly he is not famous for his work at the helm of any American orchestra.

I do take Modernistfan's point here. The only American conductor of the big five when I was growing up was Leonard Bernstein, even though James Levine was at the helm of the MET. What other American-born & trained conductor, let alone woman or Black conductor has ever been more than a niche candidate? Sarah Caldwell had to found her own opera company to be heard, for example, and James DePriest (Oregon) is the only minority conductor who managed to hold on to his post and earn a steady income there. As good as they are, the Oregon Symphony could hardly be called a major ensemble.

In any society, that society can only profit from the contributions of all its citizens if they are permitted to contribute. Europe seems to be far ahead of us right now, still. Simone Young should be under consideration for a major post here certainly by now, but her name just never comes up!

I accept Modernistfan's general point as well. As I said, you still seem to have a cultural cringe in classical music that is absent from nearly every other arena. And that's partly because the great founders of your classical tradition were European. Australia had a worse cultural cringe, but we are moving beyond it slowly.

Wasn't Previn at Pittsburgh for years, or have I muddled that up?

Yes. of course, Previn was at Pittsburgh for 8 years: 1976-1984. My point was that he's not famous for being there (except to Pittsburghurs! ) for his short 8 year tenure, although his reading of Ma Mere l'Oye and Carnival of the Animals on Phillips is a favorite CD. Besides, Pittsburgh was not one of the Big Five (New York, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Boston & Chicago). What he's famous for IMHO would be his tenure with the London Symphony which spanned both RCA (his Vaughan Williams cycle) and his many years recording dozens of records with them for EMI, including some thrilling Shostakovich. I could find barely a half-dozen CDs with Pittsburgh by contrast.

Here is a telecast I found of Previn in Pittsburgh, a fascinating program featuring Stephen Sondheim taped in 1977:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8zBiTYJoco

One in this series of music programs featuring the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra and conductor Andre Previn in an evening of music and interviews.

On this edition, Previn speaks with composer and lyricist Stephen Sondheim. Interspersed throughout the conversation are performances of Sondheim songs by David Kernan, Millicent Martin, and Julia McKenzie, the original cast of the British Sondheim revue Side by Side by Sondheim.

After introductory remarks by Previn concerning the history of American musical theater and Sondheim's place in that history, Sondheim comments on the following: his composition of the lyrics, but not the music, for "Gypsy"; the confidence he gained from writing lyrics for "West Side Story," which inspired him to write his own musicals; the structure he borrows from opera; and his interest in expanding the role of lyrics in musical theater. After Sondheim outlines the plots of "Company" and "Follies," McKenzie and Kernan perform "Barcelona" and "Too Many Mornings."

Next, Sondheim details the ways in which he used the traditional musical comedy song structure to underline the selfish nature of the character of Cora Hoover Hooper in "Anyone Can Whistle." He sheds light on the double life of the character of Phyllis Rogers Stone in "Follies," and Millicent Martin sings the character's cut number "Uptown Downtown."

Sondheim goes on to discuss the ways in which a musical's emotional peaks create the need for a song; he also touches on plays that do not benefit from a musical treatment. He speaks about his work's exploration of ambivalent emotions and comments on the importance of subtext in all drama. Kernan then sings "Sorry-Grateful," a song from "Company" in which ambivalence is key.

Sondheim and Previn discuss language and the writing of prose, poetry, and lyrics, after which Martin sings "There Won't Be Trumpets." Next, McKenzie sings "The Miller's Son," and Sondheim comments on the following: the necessity for lyrical clarity in musical theater; the functions of rhyme and "inner rhyme"; his methods for composing lyrics and music simultaneously; the self-conscious style of his early songwriting and the growing maturity and fluidity of his work over time; the demands that his music places on musicians and actors; his satisfaction when a cast lives up to the music's potential; his reluctance to write a song independent of a dramatic context; and the experience of writing "Gypsy" specifically for Ethel Merman. Finally, Sondheim comments on "Send in the Clowns," a song he wrote for Glynis Johns, and Martin sings it.