Bach, St. Matthew Passion

[Belle]

Tonight it's been all Bach, including a one hour documentary on YT made in Germany circa 1985 with the range of musicians and musicologists. It centred around Bach's life and compositional style and we all know much of this already. The spouse sat with me watching it in complete silence and stillness; he was deeply moved. It's hard not to be. My husband wasn't raised as a music-lover and has learned everything he knows about this from me, starting from our sojourn in Vienna 12 years ago.

I have only one recording of the St. Matthew Passion and it's JEG and the Monteverdi Choir/English Baroque Soloists. All on period instruments which is how I prefer this work.

Does anybody know about another excellent version I could buy to compare and contrast this one from JEG? I'm afraid it does have to be HIP; that's the only caveat.

[Lance]

Wonderful way to spend an evening. I, too, have the JEG [DGG-Archiv], but the preponderance of my recorded performances are mostly not HIP. Bernstein, Jochum, Munchinger, Rilling, Mengelberg, Koussevitzky (yes, it exists!), Karl Richter, Furtwangler, Karajan, Fritz Lehmann. I'm happy hearing it either way. Love the work. No other HIP suggestions at this point, though one or two of the above may be HIP, can't recall.

Tonight it's been all Bach, including a one hour documentary on YT made in Germany circa 1985 with the range of musicians and musicologists. It centred around Bach's life and compositional style and we all know much of this already. The spouse sat with me watching it in complete silence and stillness; he was deeply moved. It's hard not to be. My husband wasn't raised as a music-lover and has learned everything he knows about this from me, starting from our sojourn in Vienna 12 years ago.

I have only one recording of the St. Matthew Passion and it's JEG and the Monteverdi Choir/English Baroque Soloists. All on period instruments which is how I prefer this work.

Does anybody know about another excellent version I could buy to compare and contrast this one from JEG? I'm afraid it does have to be HIP; that's the only caveat.

[Belle]

It's proving to be difficult getting the CDs I want. Having ordered Brautigam's Beethoven cycle some months ago I've just had an email saying it's 'not available'. Our government stitched up a deal with Amazon so that Australians would pay tax on all purchases, so buying from overseas has become completely problematic. I don't know where to turn to buy my CDs as the Amazon in Australia is pathetic. When I even buy hardcover books the pages have been photocopied and the pictures in the book are indistinct. Beyond appalling.

[Lance]

I understand the "tax" problem completely. It used to be that unless there was a brick and morter building in the state with a company who had headquarters elsewhere, you did not have to pay the tax. Well, the way Amazon does business now, we New Yorkers have to pay tax to Amazon on EVERYTHING, even if it comes from a foreign country. Apparently New York State lost so much tax revenue to online companies they had to change the laws. That's 8% across the board, and applies to the postal fees as well (that part I don't get). But Australia has a good-sized population. Why would not Amazon have a facility there to provide you the goods we all want? I belong to Prime/Amazon and get stuff that is in their own warehouses in two days from the time of order. Of course, there is an annual fee for this service, but if you buy a lot of things online, it is worth it. It must be frustrating for you. I used to buy CDs from a place in Australia (can't think of the name now), but I think they are out of business. Now, shipping charges on purchases from Australia to the US are out of sight. I recently wanted to get two 2-CD sets from Australia and the postage was more than the cost of the CDs. I think postage was near $50/USD. BELLE: An afterthought. Did you look into Presto Classical in the UK? Their online site is excellent. You might be able to buy directly from them though the postal fees might be a little high, but you can be selective on your purchases to have several items come in the same parcel.

It's proving to be difficult getting the CDs I want. Having ordered Brautigam's Beethoven cycle some months ago I've just had an email saying it's 'not available'. Our government stitched up a deal with Amazon so that Australians would pay tax on all purchases, so buying from overseas has become completely problematic. I don't know where to turn to buy my CDs as the Amazon in Australia is pathetic. When I even buy hardcover books the pages have been photocopied and the pictures in the book are indistinct. Beyond appalling.

[Belle]

Thanks for the Presto Classical tip. It looks like I'll have to go this way, especially for the Brautigam Beethoven cycle which I really do want. The spouse bought us a new car yesterday so I may have more disc brakes than compact discs as time goes on!!

[barney]

I strongly recommend Paul McCreech and the Gabrielli players. The famous Richter version from 1959 flirts with HIP. I also have Solti, Gardiner, Chailly, Christoph Spering (HIP from memory - though all the 21st century accounts are influenced by it) and Georg Christoph Biller which was well reviewed but I can't remember.

[Lance]

What? They have cars in Australia!?! [Kidding of course.] Congratulations!What make of vehicle did you get? My mind's eye sees you running around in a BMW or maybe even a Rolls-Royce! Let me know how you make out with Presto. I'll be curious to know how they bill or charge for post services for CDs going to Australia.

Thanks for the Presto Classical tip. It looks like I'll have to go this way, especially for the Brautigam Beethoven cycle which I really do want. The spouse bought us a new car yesterday so I may have more disc brakes than compact discs as time goes on!!

[Belle]

Yes, we have cars in Australia. But we don't need these for some people to drive us mad.
I've been busy helping family recently and haven't had a lot of time to order my CDs, but will get onto this shortly. The car is the newer, bigger, more powerful model of our previous Mercedes with an excellent sound system and all the bells and whistles. Every command is voice activated - so I'd better watch my Ps and Qs!! Before long I'll be tearing out what little remaining hair I have left trying to get all the tech to work. Our 50th wedding anniversary present.

[Belle]

I strongly recommend Paul McCreech and the Gabrielli players. The famous Richter version from 1959 flirts with HIP. I also have Solti, Gardiner, Chailly, Christoph Spering (HIP from memory - though all the 21st century accounts are influenced by it) and Georg Christoph Biller which was well reviewed but I can't remember.

Thanks for this advice. Georg Christoph Biller died 2022. He was Kantor of Thomaskirche, Leipzig, and I was sorry to learn about his death. His performance of the B Minor Mass is on YouTube from 200-, with the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchester and Thomanerchor. It's excellent and very moving, especially the Dona Nobis Pacem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCg43vDsyxs

Johann Sebastian Bach gave a pretty poor account of notions that god doesn't exist!

[Belle]

This is a very fine performance of St. Matthew Passion and I've posted it here before. I've seen the Akademie fur Alte Musik twice in Vienna. Wonderful!!

What I love here is the faster tempi, the lyricism and the almost out-of-tune opening note!! It sent me right back to Leipzig and JS Bach's tenure there. It was Charles Rosen, I think, who talked about the influence of the dance on Bach's aesthetic and he referenced the closing chorus Wir setzen uns mit Tränen nieder; a lullaby which is essentially a Sarabande. In spite of this, I don't think this performance is intrinsically emotional or romantic in its interpretation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moC6QNHPzzw

One thing which has emerged, like the Matterhorn out of a shroud of fog, from the various accounts of Bach in documentary and in print - and which is under-represented - is the quality of the musicianship during the composer's lifetime. That scores were often copied right at the eleventh hour for rehearsal, close to the actual performance date, speaks volumes to me about the skills of Bach's musicians. They read his handwriting and that of his copyists sufficiently well enough to provide a performance - whether these scores were 'correct' or not. Frequently there was no opportunity for those corrections. What, then, does this tell us about the skills of musicians and their sight-playing - many of whom we know already had significant improvisational ability with basso continuo? We do know that Bach was unhappy with the standard of his choral singers but we know little about the training, experience and skills of his instrumental musicians.

[Lance]

A MERCEDES! I should have thought about that for you. Great, well-built luxury cars. I understand the ones that come to the US are equipped with McIntosh sound equipment - made right here in Binghamton, New York. Perhaps the Austarlian and other country models have it as well. Like you, I'm appalled the way people are driving these days, no attention to speeds, weaving in and out, extending their middle fingers. Something is happening in our world and it keeps getting worse.

Yes, we have cars in Australia. But we don't need these for some people to drive us mad.
I've been busy helping family recently and haven't had a lot of time to order my CDs, but will get onto this shortly. The car is the newer, bigger, more powerful model of our previous Mercedes with an excellent sound system and all the bells and whistles. Every command is voice activated - so I'd better watch my Ps and Qs!! Before long I'll be tearing out what little remaining hair I have left trying to get all the tech to work. Our 50th wedding anniversary present.

[Belle]

It's a Burmester system in ours, but the car itself is made in the USA. Reviews were good for the surround system, but I'll reserve judgment for now as our present Mercedes in the same class (also made in USA) has to be sold privately before we take possession of the new one.

This new one has air suspension - you can lower the car to get into it!! Good for the oldies.
Looks like my byte will be worse than my Bach.

[Belle]

Here's a fairly new performance of the St. Matthew Passion from Thomaskirche, Leipzig. This time one of my preferred countertenors, Andreas Scholl, is singing. It's an excellent performance altogether, with some interesting organ and continuo figurations - even in the chorale sections.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO1dBAQV-08

[premont]

Here's a fairly new performance of the St. Matthew Passion from Thomaskirche, Leipzig. This time one of my preferred countertenors, Andreas Scholl, is singing. It's an excellent performance altogether, with some interesting organ and continuo figurations - even in the chorale sections.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO1dBAQV-08

Your link directs us to a performance of the Johannes passion.

[Belle]

Oh, yes, of course!! Senior's moment. I'll repost it separately as it's from the same ensemble as recorded the St. Matthew earlier.

[Lance]

I just saw an interesting quote:

"Bach's St. Matthew Passion of 1729 probably brought
religion home to many more souls than the words of
a thousand curates. At times, doctors of music have
been nearer than doctors of divinity to God."
—Owen Chadwick, History of Christianity

[Belle]

I loved this quote, and it's so very true. I never grow tired of the Bach Passions, the B Minor Mass or 'the 48' and many more works by Bach. Same response to Beethoven (except final movement Symphony 9 - pass!) and Brahms (except Ein Deutsches Requiem - pass).

These lines about music and passion from Keats' "Ode on a Grecian Urn" are also quite significant when applied to music:

And, happy melodist, unwearied,
For ever piping songs for ever new;
More happy love! more happy, happy love!
For ever warm and still to be enjoy'd,
For ever panting, and for ever young;

Yes, music is passion, forever young and unwearied.

Here's a very interesting discussion from about 10 years ago between Ton Koopman and three Bach scholars in Leipzig. They discuss the Bach Passion and what is of great interest here is their comments about the size of the orchestras and the extraordinary playing abilities of each musician; most of them had to master far more than one instrument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJpDvE9xRpA