Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

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Belle
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Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by Belle » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:03 pm

This is absolutely stunning. Both individuals superbly intelligent, prescient and understanding. Some very confronting hypotheses here about the 'woke' world, the repression and tribal power attached to that and the implications for the society. Weiss is direct about her experience at the New York Times; she was an outlier as a Jew and heterodox writer and thinker; that the paper panders to its audience in no way different to Fox or MSN, CNN or WAPO. And with direction provided by social media!! Weiss has worked at both mastheads. The threat to democracy forms part of this discussion, but that isn't all.


Important elements of the discussion, which form the basis of my criticism of our national broadcaster and Left wing media: that they adopt 'totalizing theories' that identify a convenient enemy; someone that you are NOT. Formulation of a victimized identity; this is something I've been on about for years now myself. These outlets have an explanation for everything, sans any kind of complexity, and it's meant for the tribe; that these media are tribal and, in the case of the Left, represent the righteous and the good. Only trouble is that dissent results in 'excommunication', the biggest danger of all. And it has lethal consequences.


This is what I've said about our ABC and its current affairs programs; they childishly reduce all issues to a single-issue enemy. There's never any attempt to unpack complexities, and everything in life is complex. For example, the 'pay gap'; as Jordan says, these are hugely complex paradigms and there's never the slightest attempt to address those. No suggestion of "equal work, equal pay" (that's very inconvenient). Just the one idea; we're entitled to have equal pay and, if not, the system is wrong and we need to get rid of it; that all men are bad ("toxic") and women are good ("believe all women"), never resorting to violence and never any discussion at all of women being the greatest instigators of childhood murders; that climate change science should never be contested and that Australia is renegade on climate change (never mind our 1.3% of total world emissions) without any discussions of byzantine energy/income/employment structures upon which our nation is singularly dependent; sea levels are rising in the south pacific and that this is a great threat to world peace (as Biden breathlessly suggested recently), overlooking (just as one local example) the huge development just built for billions of dollars on the very shores of Sydney Harbour; that rich people are 'bad' etc. etc. No sophistication, just casuistry and propaganda.

That's typical of the flavour of our Left media and our national broadcaster - and their embrace of neo-racism - and it heartens me to hear more sophisticated ideas elsewhere (for example, thanks to the internet, in this kind of discussion). Weiss if a formidable intellect and she's burning the issues to the ground here in her discussion with Dr. Peterson. The greatest irony of all; the social justice warriors who wanted underclasses given a better chance but who want to burn down the very system which would help them achieve success; capitalism and freedom!! I guess they're just not as smart as these two intellectuals: that and visceral resentment in the cohort.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFTA9MJZ4KY

barney
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by barney » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:02 pm

Both individuals superbly intelligent, prescient and understanding
Which is to say no more than that you agree with them, Belle.

jserraglio
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by jserraglio » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:15 am

Image

12 Rules for Life: For Dummies

THE GUARDIAN 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos by Jordan B Peterson – digested read https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/ ... ested-read
Last edited by jserraglio on Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

maestrob
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by maestrob » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:37 am

My kind of cool cat: NOT!

Image

The world belongs to the strong :?: :?:

Oh, Belle, we ALL live here.

The major flaw in this reasoning is that it's a disgusting idea to kick someone when they're down and out. What goes around, comes around.

The revolutions of the past centuries (starting with ours, of course, and ending with Russia in 1917) resulted from just such crass and short-sided thinking.

In this context, "strong" simply means that you have the right to ignore and crush your opposition and those less fortunate in the moment. What terrible hogwash!

A little kindness goes a long way.

Do get a grip, luv! :wink:

jserraglio
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by jserraglio » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:44 am

Belle wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:03 pm
Formulation of a victimized identity; this is something I've been on about for years now myself.
"That sounds like a lot of crap to me," General Dreedle said.
"It is a lot of crap, sir." Yossarian replied.

maestrob
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by maestrob » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:15 am

jserraglio wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:44 am
Belle wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:03 pm
Formulation of a victimized identity; this is something I've been on about for years now myself.
"That sounds like a lot of crap to me," General Dreedle said.
"It is a lot of crap, sir." Yossarian replied.
And here I thought Yossarian couldn't talk because he died before he could be processed. :mrgreen:

Ah! Memories!

jserraglio
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by jserraglio » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:26 pm

maestrob wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:15 am
I thought Yossarian couldn't talk because he died before he could be processed.
That is not Yossarian (Capt. John Yossarian has plenty to say about a catch-22, better known in our day as anarchic Trumpism). The silent airman’s name is Mudd, but is more commonly referred to in the novel as ‘the dead man in Yossarian’s tent’.

Like most culture warriors, Lieutenant Mudd had a ‘victimized identity’ formulated for him by right-wing zanies, couldn’t be processed, and thus does not exist in his own right.

So it goes.
Last edited by jserraglio on Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

maestrob
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by maestrob » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:51 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:26 pm
maestrob wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:15 am
I thought Yossarian couldn't talk because he died before he could be processed.
That is not Yossarian (Capt. John Yossarian has plenty to say about a catch-22, better known in our day as Trumpism). The silent airman’s name is Mudd, but is more commonly referred to in the novel as ‘the dead man in Yossarian’s tent’.

Like most culture warriors, Lieutenant Mudd had a ‘victimized identity’ formulated for him by right-wing zanies, couldn’t be processed, and thus does not exist in his own right.
:lol:

OK! Another senior moment. It's been so long..... :roll:

jserraglio
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by jserraglio » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:56 pm

Trump has Two Corinthians he doesn’t read, I have Catch-22 I do.

maestrob
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by maestrob » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:05 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:56 pm
Trump has Two Corinthians he doesn’t read, I have Catch-22 I do.
For me, it's the original Twilight Zone, The Defenders and Star Trek. Not to mention Laugh-In, of course! ("Sock it to me!" starring Richard Nixon! :lol:)

Mostly though, it's the music I bonded to during my teen years, including Mahler, Bruckner, Prokofiev & Shostakovich symphonies, as well as Boris Godunov and Faust for some reason.

barney
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by barney » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:36 pm

maestrob wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:05 pm
jserraglio wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:56 pm
Trump has Two Corinthians he doesn’t read, I have Catch-22 I do.
For me, it's the original Twilight Zone, The Defenders and Star Trek. Not to mention Laugh-In, of course! ("Sock it to me!" starring Richard Nixon! :lol:)

Mostly though, it's the music I bonded to during my teen years, including Mahler, Bruckner, Prokofiev & Shostakovich symphonies, as well as Boris Godunov and Faust for some reason.
Catch 22 is pure genius. Not sure if I mentioned that I have recently reread (at least the fourth time) Heller's Good as Gold, also pure genius. So many laugh out loud moments, so much bitter truth.
Paul's Corinthian epistles, for me, of course, are more than pure genius.

jserraglio
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by jserraglio » Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:00 am

barney wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:36 pm
Not sure if I mentioned that I have recently reread (at least the fourth time) Heller's Good as Gold, also pure genius. So many laugh out loud moments,
You did, and I put it on my gotta read list. I used to own it but sold it off.

Oscar Wilde and Joseph Heller. The two funniest guys I ever read.

barney
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by barney » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:17 am

jserraglio wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:00 am
barney wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:36 pm
Not sure if I mentioned that I have recently reread (at least the fourth time) Heller's Good as Gold, also pure genius. So many laugh out loud moments,
You did, and I put it on my gotta read list. I used to own it but sold it off.

Oscar Wilde and Joseph Heller. The two funniest guys I ever read.
Well Brian, good pair, but let me add one more ardent recommendation. Jerome K. Jerome's 1889 Three Men in a Boat , a fictitous account of a canal holiday by three young men and all the things that go wrong, is, for me, the funniest book in the English language. Never been out of print, I believe. There is a sequel, Three Men on a Bummel, about a cycling holiday in Germany that is not far short.

maestrob
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by maestrob » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:01 pm

barney wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:17 am
jserraglio wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:00 am
barney wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:36 pm
Not sure if I mentioned that I have recently reread (at least the fourth time) Heller's Good as Gold, also pure genius. So many laugh out loud moments,
You did, and I put it on my gotta read list. I used to own it but sold it off.

Oscar Wilde and Joseph Heller. The two funniest guys I ever read.
Well Brian, good pair, but let me add one more ardent recommendation. Jerome K. Jerome's 1889 Three Men in a Boat , a fictitous account of a canal holiday by three young men and all the things that go wrong, is, for me, the funniest book in the English language. Never been out of print, I believe. There is a sequel, Three Men on a Bummel, about a cycling holiday in Germany that is not far short.
That wasn't me, Barney, but many thanks for the suggestion. I'll be sure to check out Jerome K. 8)

barney
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by barney » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:01 pm

Oops. another senior moment. Joseph, I hope you add it to your list too. I'm rereading it at the moment, but in small chunks so I can maximise the pleasure. :D

lennygoran
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by lennygoran » Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:18 am

jserraglio wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:44 am
"That sounds like a lot of crap to me," General Dreedle said.
"It is a lot of crap, sir." Yossarian replied.
Found it-Catch-22: Chapter 21 General Dreedle Regards, Len :lol:

Belle
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by Belle » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:43 pm

barney wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:02 pm
Both individuals superbly intelligent, prescient and understanding
Which is to say no more than that you agree with them, Belle.
That's a sad kind of comment. It is devoid of any fact or argument. How would Bari know about the NYT when she only worked there? It's troubling that an erstwhile journalist has zero sense of inquiry about alternative viewpoints and is trapped in the groupthink so well reinforced and bolstered by truncheon-carrying authoritarians. But it's entirely compatible with the insularity of the failed Fairfax Media; I dumped their shares at 55 cents after a huge hit ages ago (you owe me thousands of dollars!) and after I'd inherited them from my father.

One way to do it is the Fairfax way: put your fingers in your ears and shout at your political opponents and then call yourself "a centrist". Absolutely risible.

Belle
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by Belle » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:05 pm

lennygoran wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:18 am
jserraglio wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:44 am
"That sounds like a lot of crap to me," General Dreedle said.
"It is a lot of crap, sir." Yossarian replied.
Found it-Catch-22: Chapter 21 General Dreedle Regards, Len :lol:
It's the eloquence of the, er, arguments which always impresses me!!! :lol:

I guess you can't expect much more from people who aren't in the least economically progressive.

jserraglio
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by jserraglio » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:04 am

Belle wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:43 pm
erstwhile journalist
zero sense of inquiry about alternative viewpoints
trapped in the groupthink
truncheon-carrying authoritarians
failed Fairfax Media
put your fingers in your ears
shout at your political opponents
call yourself a ‘centrist’
you can't expect much more from people who aren't ... economically progressive
Rhetorical aggression dons the shallow masks of Fact and Argument.

barney
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by barney » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:37 am

Belle wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:43 pm
barney wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:02 pm
Both individuals superbly intelligent, prescient and understanding
Which is to say no more than that you agree with them, Belle.
That's a sad kind of comment. It is devoid of any fact or argument. How would Bari know about the NYT when she only worked there? It's troubling that an erstwhile journalist has zero sense of inquiry about alternative viewpoints and is trapped in the groupthink so well reinforced and bolstered by truncheon-carrying authoritarians. But it's entirely compatible with the insularity of the failed Fairfax Media; I dumped their shares at 55 cents after a huge hit ages ago (you owe me thousands of dollars!) and after I'd inherited them from my father.

One way to do it is the Fairfax way: put your fingers in your ears and shout at your political opponents and then call yourself "a centrist". Absolutely risible.
Another vacuous remark from you, Belle. It's all that bile roiling around that twists your vision. I've told you what I read every day: Age (leftish), New York Times (left-centrist), Herald Sun (centrist), Australian (pretty far right), Spectator (even further right) and New Yorker (left). Plus email news from across the spectrum. That gives me a balance you are utterly incapable of, as you show with every poisonous bit of drivel. You constantly call the New York Times Pravda - how often do you read it? I suspect scarcely ever. And you accuse me of putting my fingers in my ears and shouting? A classic case of projection.
If you were stupid enough to invest in Fairfax shares, all I can say is caveat emptor. Typical of the right - you'll gobble up the profits and expect someone else to carry your losses. Inside every far-right capitalist lurks a socialist when it comes to paying for themselves. A regular trend of the rich plutocrats through the 21st century - not suprising to see you leap on the bandwagon. I lost money on Fairfax shares too, actually - I bought them over years through an employee share scheme of salary sacrificing and didn't sell till Fairfax plummeted. And the sad thing is that the staff could see how ineptly we were managed.

So that makes two idiots, both of us. But I actually worked for mine - I didn't just rely on daddy.
Last edited by barney on Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

maestrob
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by maestrob » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:21 am

Typical of the right - you'll gobble up the profits and expect someone else to carry your losses. Inside every far-right capitalist lurks a socialist when it comes to paying for themselves. A regular trend of the rich plutocrats through the 21st century - not surprising to see you leap on the bandwagon.
I'm with you in everything you posted here Barney, but the above was particularly to the point.

So far in America, not a single banker has served even a day's time for the collapse of 2008.

barney
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by barney » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:24 pm

Thanks Brian. That was so scandalous - and then Obama started appointing these Wall Street failures to lucrative government posts. So they in fact got rewarded.

maestrob
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by maestrob » Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:16 am

barney wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:24 pm
Thanks Brian. That was so scandalous - and then Obama started appointing these Wall Street failures to lucrative government posts. So they in fact got rewarded.
So I noticed, along with the many other plutocrats who are profiting mightily from the $150 billion that our Fed is creating every month to stimulate our economy. All those independent oil companies who were due to go belly up just before the pandemic started (there were warnings about the many junk bonds coming due then) have now been rescued by Uncle Sam as the Fed, in order to "stabilize" the bond market last March when everything shut down, including access to credit, began their intervention by buying all the bad bonds they could lay their hands on.

I haven't seen anything comprehensive about this in the press, even while the Fed now holds roughly $9 trillion in various assets, and is still buying. That's about 1/3 of our entire economic output for a year.

It will be interesting to see what happens as they try to sell these assets whenever they start to wind down as the economy recovers.

jserraglio
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Re: Jordan Peterson in long-form interview with Bari Weiss

Post by jserraglio » Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:29 am

Belle wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:05 pm
I guess you can't expect much more from people who aren't in the least economically progressive.
Image

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