Interesting Rally

Barry · Post by **Barry** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:44 pm

I live in Philly's Chinatown. Earlier this afternoon I was at a rally at one of Chinatown's main intersections. The rally was against the Chinese Communist Party. Apparently there is a fairly large worldwide movement of Chinese people not living in China. The extent of it was partially detailed in an English-language newspaper I picked up that also listed the true history, full of atrocities, of the CCP, right up through the present day.
I was struck by the lack of Americans there (there were a few, but not many). When there is a downtown rally against the U.S. or Israel (or in favor of the Palestinians), it is generally packed with people from the American left.
I continue to think that movement has lost its moral bearing. They recognize no evil unless it's that which they perceive to come from the United States or Israel.

jbuck919 · Post by **jbuck919** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:44 pm

I can only say that the fact that China remains a dictatorship that says explicitly that it intends never to democratize is the greateast single foreign affairs concern of our time. They will of course come around eventually like everyone else, but it would be nice if power could be bought out. I'd contribute to a fund to put the bastards on a perpetual yacht cruise if they would agree to it as an alternative to lording it over more than a billion people at the peril of world peace.

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:02 pm

I have never seen caucasians participate in Chinese political rallies of any kind in N.Y. and there have been many. When Carter de-recognized Taiwan there waere pro and anti rallies in Chinatown and I watched from the periphery.

In New York over the summer Falun Gong demonstrators were, literally, on almost every street corner on the Upper West Side every wekeend, a liberal area (and they were elsewhere too). Few stopped to listen or talk.

I don't think any conclusions about the American left or right or center can be drawn from Barry's experience. The real question is:

What did Barry eat?

operafan · Post by **operafan** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:36 pm

It is hard to rally against a country's leadership if one is wearing their t-shirts. Or buying their toys. Or buying any of their cheap stuff. That could easily be said to be a tad hipocritical.

jbuck919 · Post by **jbuck919** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:53 pm

If every citizen of the world contributed ten dollars, every dictator in the world could be set up for life with their regimes replaced by something democratic. They could live out the remainder of their lives in extreme luxury and everyone would be better off for it. Unfortunately no one has set up such a fund, nor would it be successful if there were one. It would not keep the dictators from the irresistable urge to consider themselves as gods, and it would violate people's sense of justice. But it would solve an overwhelming problem.

John Bleau · Post by **John Bleau** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:12 pm

Disband the NFL and send the coaches to the countries most in need of benevolent despots for a transition period.

DavidRoss · Post by **DavidRoss** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:05 pm

jbuck919 wrote:I can only say that the fact that China remains a dictatorship that says explicitly that it intends never to democratize is the greateast single foreign affairs concern of our time. They will of course come around eventually like everyone else, but it would be nice if power could be bought out. I'd contribute to a fund to put the bastards on a perpetual yacht cruise if they would agree to it as an alternative to lording it over more than a billion people at the peril of world peace.

Their days are numbered. They're in bed with Wal-Mart now.

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:49 pm

jbuck919 wrote:I can only say that the fact that China remains a dictatorship that says explicitly that it intends never to democratize is the greateast single foreign affairs concern of our time.

They have relaxed considerably, more I believe than Russia, since say the cultural revolution of the mid 60s. I believe they have managed their liberalization a lot smarter than the Russians too.

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:52 pm

jbuck919 wrote: Unfortunately no one has set up such a fund, nor would it be successful if there were one.

International trade and trade liberalization are the nearest things to such a fund. People underestimate the extent to which American pressure for free trade has been an engine of democtratization around the world.

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:54 pm

DavidRoss wrote: Their days are numbered. They're in bed with Wal-Mart now.

Excellent, David! So true. Gainst Wal-Mart they don't stand a chance.

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:20 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
DavidRoss wrote: Their days are numbered. They're in bed with Wal-Mart now.
Excellent, David! So true. Gainst Wal-Mart they don't stand a chance.

*****

What about K-Mart?

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:36 pm

Ralph wrote: What about K-Mart?

Hardly.

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:30 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:They have relaxed considerably, more I believe than Russia, since say the cultural revolution of the mid 60s. I believe they have managed their liberalization a lot smarter than the Russians too.

I agree and I should know, since I was born there. I emigrated from China to the States in the mid-'80s. When I visited my birthplace, Shanghai, in '01, hardly any facet was recognizable, from the physical to the cultural. What shocked me most was that people could freely complain about the government, if not in protest form, at least they could grumble publicly (which was a no-no in the old days). And here I was trying to refrain from uttering anything politically offensive while visiting.

I liken the demise of Communist China to dying from cancer rather than a heartattack, the latter was what occurred to the Soviet Union. In this case a slower death is preferable.

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:47 pm

Gary wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:They have relaxed considerably, more I believe than Russia, since say the cultural revolution of the mid 60s. I believe they have managed their liberalization a lot smarter than the Russians too.
I agree and I should know, since I was born there. I emigrated from China to the States in the mid-'80s. When I visited my birthplace, Shanghai, in '01, hardly any facet was recognizable, from the physical to the cultural. What shocked me most was that people could freely complain about the government, if not in protest form, at least they could grumble publicly (which was a no-no in the old days). And here I was trying to refrain from uttering anything politically offensive while visiting.

I liken the demise of Communist China to dying from cancer rather than a heartattack, the latter was what occurred to the Soviet Union. In this case a slower death is preferable.

*****

The Chinese government decides WHAT complaints are permissible.

While there has been some liberalization the degree of control is enormous. As we've seen in the past week use of deadly force is still the last tactic.

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 10:59 pm

Ralph wrote:
The Chinese government decides WHAT complaints are permissible.

While there has been some liberalization the degree of control is enormous. As we've seen in the past week use of deadly force is still the last tactic.

Oh, I don't dispute that at all. Like I said, a slow death...

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:08 pm

Ralph wrote:While there has been some liberalization the degree of control is enormous.

No one disputes that the government is a tyrany or that they don't have a lot of control. It's a relative thing. What they allow now would have been unthinkable 30 years ago. If they believe the old maxim about when revolutions are spawned, they have a right to be anxious about how quickly they reduce controls. Besides that they have enough to worry about with the bird flu and the massive immigration from the countrysides to the cities.

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:45 am

Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote:While there has been some liberalization the degree of control is enormous.
No one disputes that the government is a tyrany or that they don't have a lot of control. It's a relative thing. What they allow now would have been unthinkable 30 years ago. If they believe the old maxim about when revolutions are spawned, they have a right to be anxious about how quickly they reduce controls. Besides that they have enough to worry about with the bird flu and the massive immigration from the countrysides to the cities.

*****

Their economic boom is impressive but keep your eye on military and naval projects. We are not prepared for an engagement in littoral waters.

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:03 pm

Ralph wrote:Their economic boom is impressive but keep your eye on military and naval projects. We are not prepared for an engagement in littoral waters.

Keep your other eye on the trade.

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:33 pm

Ralph wrote:
Their economic boom is impressive but keep your eye on military and naval projects. We are not prepared for an engagement in littoral waters.

Corlyss_D wrote: Keep your other eye on the trade.

Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence.

--The Art of War

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